These guys were at the Texas Hill Country Chapter SCI banquet last weekend and were offering elephant and buffalo hunts inside Hwange National Park. They were very open about the fact that they had quota in the park. In fact, the owner of the outfit, Koos de Meyer, approached a Zim operator who was also at the banquet and told him they were conducting hunts in the park.

Martin Pieters has been advised and has been in contact with de Meyer, who pledges he will discontinue marketing hunts in Zimbabwe.

Kuche Safaris will have booths at an upcoming outdoor/hunting show in Oklahoma City and they'll be at the Harrisburg, PA show. I thought I'd give a heads up here in case any members have contact with them, or would like to ask them about their Zim hunts at the shows to confirm de Meyer's pledge to stop marketing illegal hunts in Zimbabwe.

Do the HillCountry Chapter know that they are offering Illegal hunts?

When I brought Mr. de Meyer's hunt offer to the attention of the chapter president, she talked to him about the issue. At first, he denied that he offered hunts in Zim, then later agreed to discontinue marketing the hunts in the park.

I strongly advised the chapter president to evict Mr. de Meyer but his assurances seemed to be enough to keep his place at the show.

Wonder if they will get the drift when 15 people ask them about their Zim hunts at the Harrisburg show?

D

Kinda what I was hoping would happen...

It is people like these that gives us a BAD name and then clients just see the word South Africa and they run away.
They should ban such companies and tear up their licenses.

A few years back there was a guy offering hunts in Zim on land others were chased off of by the veterans. He got ruffed up by some of the other Zim ph's in attendance.

Mike

I'll be sure to attempt to book a Zim hunt with him in Harrisburg.

And may be ask sbout this at the SCI show if they are there?

And may be bring this up to the SCI orgenisor attention, although I am not holding my breath that they will do anything.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
Kinda what I was hoping would happen...

David,

Good on you for taking this on.

I wonder if it is a crime to attempt to violate the Lacy Act? I.e, if the guy took a deposit (with a contract) from an undercover cop. After all, he's now in the U.S. and subject to our laws?

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I wonder if it is a crime to attempt to violate the Lacy Act? I.e, if the guy took a deposit (with a contract) from an undercover cop. After all, he's now in the U.S. and subject to our laws?

Sure is...intent to violate a Fed law gets you into the courts....we just sent our last Illinois governor to jail on that basis.

§ 3372. Prohibited acts
(a) Offenses other than marking offenses
It is unlawful for any person—
(1) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken,
possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in
violation of any Indian tribal law;
(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce—
(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of
any State or in violation of any foreign law, or
(B) any plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State;
(3) within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States (as defined in section 7 of
title 18)—
(A) to possess any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or
regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law or Indian tribal law, or
(B) to possess any plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of
any State;
(4) to attempt to commit any act described in paragraphs (1) through (4).

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I wonder if it is a crime to attempt to violate the Lacy Act? I.e, if the guy took a deposit (with a contract) from an undercover cop. After all, he's now in the U.S. and subject to our laws?

Sure is...intent to violate a Fed law gets you into the courts....we just sent our last Illinois governor to jail on that basis.

Saeed,

I specifically asked this operator if he would be at the show in Vegas - he told me he would not be there. I was hoping to have the opportunity to introduce him to Martin and others who might take exception to his offerings in Zimbabwe.

I was disappointed that the local chapter chose not to take a stronger stand on this. I pointed out the potential for exposure to Lacy Act violations by chapter members - for me that would have been sufficient reason to boot them. Ultimately, it seems, we are going to have to police ourselves by exposing these guys for the thieves they are.

It pissed me off that these guys were blatantly marketing questionable, if not illegal hunts in Zimbabwe at cheap prices, while not 20 feet away, two reputable Zim operators had to stand by with no recourse to set things right.

Can PHASA do anytging about these criminals?

I believe Martin has been in contact with PHASA, but no word on their response.

Guys like this have been at the Eastern Show for years. It could be that they know they can sell questionable hunts to unsuspecting or ignorant people.

Well, seeing what had happened to some of the past South African PHs who have been caught red handed, and PHASA did notthing, I am not holding my breath.

This is the sort of thing where SCI should take a better stand against.

But, as you have seen from the Chapter response, nothing can stand in the way of collecting more money!

Back in 2010 I had contacted Kuche Safaris when planning for future hunts. At that time he told me he did not hunt Zimbabwe as it wasn't safe. In December of 2010 he contacted me and said he was with two other PH's and hunting Zimbabwe as it had stabilized. I don't know what area he was hunting or who the other PH's were.

I was supposed to meet Koos at the 2011 Sheep Show but he didn't show even though he had a booth reserved. I figured at that time he wasn't dependable and crossed him off my list.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:
When I brought Mr. de Meyer's hunt offer to the attention of the chapter president, she talked to him about the issue. At first, he denied that he offered hunts in Zim, then later agreed to discontinue marketing the hunts in the park.

I strongly advised the chapter president to evict Mr. de Meyer but his assurances seemed to be enough to keep his place at the show.

Unfortunately you probably find he gave some big Donation for their banquet to be auctioned off for peanuts an they stand to loose that income if they kicked him out. - SCI Auctions are killing the Industry


Good on U for showing him up to be a crook

[quote]quote:
Originally posted by David W:
When I brought Mr. de Meyer's hunt offer to the attention of the chapter president, she talked to him about the issue. At first, he denied that he offered hunts in Zim, then later agreed to discontinue marketing the hunts in the park.

What a load of crock. Our Mr Meyer will simply go underground and still conduct his illegal safaris in the Park. With his connections it will be very hard for the Zim lads to stick their neck out.

Otherwise it will get chopped off.

Dave,

Actually, I advised the chapter president that I would stand up at the auction when their donation came up for bid and tell the crowd what these guys are up to. However, Kuche had not made a donation, though they did attend the dinner.

Andrew,

No doubt. That was why I was hoping to shine the light on them through this forum. Mr. de Meyer told one of the Zim operators at the banquet to go find him a better deal on quota in Zim and he would stop hunting in the park. It was clear that he has no intention of stopping.

I would think that those of you who will be at the Eastern Sportsman Show, should/would do something to put a stop to this. Good Luck!!!

i am truly amazed that an SCI chapter would do nothing about an exhibitor selling illegal hunts. that's certainly a first- NOT!!!!!

Sadly PHASA does not have any REAL teeth. The orginisation is working on getting some though.

Not all PH's in SA are members of PHASA, as it is not law.

As Charl mentioned. PHASA is slowly getting teeth. With all the new legislation from government thing might get better. Unfortunately, if a PH is not a member of PHASA they can not legally do anything about it. We are hoping/waiting for a law to get passed that all PH's from SA has to belong to PHASA if they want to keep their licenses. If that happens then they will have big teeth and can do something about it.

Irrespective of illegal hunting in Zimbabwe, isn't hunting in Hwange Park actually poaching, as safari hunts can't be conducted in the Park?

They will be at booth #7215 in Harrisburg, Pa. I will go there and see what he is offering. Maybe I can get some of our beloved USF&W to attend. Could get interesting.

Mike

Thank you David for following up on this on behalf of ZPHGA we thank you. I got in touch immediately with him and after several emails, he has pulled out of Zimbabwe and his bogus hunts.

Below is an excerpt from his las mail:


Thank you Martin
I will not be in Vegas but hope to meet you in person in future.
Can I close this then and please inform your "informants" just as a support
to your organization I will not promote these hunts furthermore.
I really don`t depend on these hunts.
I know and understand what is going on in your country and certainly don`t
want to take advantage of a bad situation.
I already told my people in SA to take off all Zim info from my web and
they will do so tommorrow.
Hope you are sucsessfull in your marketing.
Thank you
Koos de Meyer

quote:

Can I close this then and please inform your "informants" just as a support
to your organization I will not promote these hunts furthermore.

What an idiot!

So people who have noticed his illegal operation are now "informants" ha?

Now his name and the name of his compnay has been made public, I hope everyone will avoid doing business with them!

Kuche safaris Kuche safaris Kuche safaris.

We will try to remember and spread the word.

Tom

I also will go by the booth at Harrisburg.

Thanks to David W for taking them on and to Martin for delivering the final blow! Cheers guys!!!!

Guys,
only about 30% of SA PH's and Outfitters belong to PHASA.
The law which they are hoping will swell their numbers is dodgy in terms of the constitution and in reference to talks with the firearm authorities.
I would hazard a guess that there are as many or more PH's who belong to the CHASA family than there are in PHASA and both these members normally ascribe to the laws and ethics of hunting.
One of the problems is that despite the dodgy buggers deeds being common knowledge, very few people will commit to sworn declarations or providing proof positive, and the associations cannot then investigate.
There are more than enough laws and regulations both here and abroad and within organisations like SCI and suchlike that given the will, the dodgy lads could be shut down or out of the industry. It would be a festive day indeed when these characters were run out on a rail.

Neither his website, nor his printed literature show that he is a member of PHASA.

However, from his website, it appears he is a relative newcomer to the safari business. His bio states that he is a former police officer who investigated car theft and organized crime "throughout Africa south of the equator."

Draw your own conclusions about his stated qualifications and his conduct of illegal hunting in Zimbabwe.

Our booth at the HCSCI event was indeed 20 feet away from Kuche's booth and the events that David described occured exactly as David posted. Kuche blatantly boasted of Hwange hunts to my wife, herself a two-time hunter to Zimbabwe, and all us, including two renown Zimbabwean PH's in attendence at this year's event, were quite upset about the matter. David jumped right in the middle of Kuche's oatmeal, big time, and did not let up.

Those of us that love Zimbabwe, its people and its resources, need to look out after Her the best we can, in whatever way we can. Here and there. David did exactly that. Goodonya, mate. Many thanks.

Mike Shellman
Sebenzani Safaris, LP

so now hwange is legal???

and night time PAC hunting by paying clients too???

quote:

Neither his website, nor his printed
literature show that he is a member of PHASA.

However, from his website, it appears he is a relative newcomer to the safari business. His bio states that he is a former police officer who investigated car theft and organized crime "throughout Africa south of the equator."

I wonder if he knows Dawie?

Met him today at harrisburg and from what I saw
He and Martin have sorted things out. I have no dog in this fight , after seeing copys of emails
it sems more of a misunderstanding than anything else.
sorry not enough experience to be a judge

I sat and spoke to Koos about the offering of ele hunting in Whange and he said " The hunts offered to him to book for are ration hunts and all the money raised goes directly to the national parks.
Quoting " Since this issue was brought up at the Fredericksburg SCI, Tx. and on AR, I have kept quiet and gave everybody the opportunity to say what they feel like. I have been called a poacher, criminal, idiot, ext with no proof at all. I was not arrested or brought in front of any court and did not break any laws in any country.
An old doctor once told me that when a man's testosterone levels are low he starts thinking and reacting emotionally... That normally comes with age. Emotions doesn't make laws and regulations invalid.
I was contacted by Mr. Martin Peters, he represents SOAZ and ZPHGA by email on this matter. Both of us just the best of intentions in resolving this issue but I still get crucified even after he notified that AR on their forum that the that the matter has been resolved and that I undertook not to sell those ration hunts anymore. I feel this is uncalled for as there hunts are legal, paid for and permitted by the authorities of Zimbabwe. If you liked them or not they were permitted. I offered this withdrawal out of respect for their view points and no other reason.
In my emails with Martin 1/23/11 I stated to him that these hunts are legal and done from he ration quota. In his response he never challenged the legal aspect on this. He actually stated that ration hunts and quota wa issued in the past but not yet for 2012.
He mentioned that this is a park and should be treated as such. General knowledge is that hunts are conducted in national parks all over the world... Just google and you will be surprised it happens all over the world. THIS IS A FACT. Why are ZIM Parks different if you can get a permit form the authorities.
The question arises if there is more behind this. Is it about a SA PH's working with a registered black PH's in Zim and offering them a life and the same hunts at a better prices for our clients or is this more about the politics in this beautiful country. We bring a lot of money in a legal way in this country thru hunting.
Martin mentioned that the parks are desperate for money. Since this money is paid to parks... Don't we all use the slogan... Conservation thru hunting. Instead these animals will just be killed for food now and parks makes no money. What they do with that is not for me or you to decide.
My hunts did take place previously as accused but it was legal. As per agreement we diddnot sell any of the hunts for ZIM for 2012 or any year afterwards. And for now intend to keep it that way.
Only cape buffalo was hunted and no eles were hunted or killed in this area. Only cows were offered for this area. To the best of my knowledge trophy eles cannot be hunted in this area.
I have an email from another white ZIM licensed PH in which he states these hunts might be unethical (debatable) but they are legal. I had planned on using this PH operator for future hunts. We never hunted or did any business together. For obvious reasons I will not reveal his name.

Facts:
Permits, Tags were issued for hunts and paid for and issued.
Permits were paid for in Bulawayo at the office of Nature conservation ((Zim Fish & Game)
The area does not appear on the USA SDN list of banned areas and persons from Zim.
As required I was accompanied by a licensed Zim PH and or operators from Zim. at all times. I also checked and verified on the list of SOAZ.
They were in control of the hunts at all times.
As members of SOAZ and ZPHGA they should be well experienced in hunting and know the relevant laws.
We Reported at the entrance gate and completed the entrance register , not hiding anything.
We reported to the reception office where I paid for accommodation and made arrangements for hunts with the relevant officials.
A scout was allocated and was with us at all times.
Outcomes of the hunts were reported to where we hunted.
Based on the same facts as above: A Zim Ph in 2011 hunting with SA clients was taken from the park with clients to Vic Falls for questioning on hunting in the Park,poaching in the same area by the police and this was discussed on AR under the heading "Illegal Hunting in ZIM" He was fined $500 for not using the right vehicle. What happened to the poaching case/ complaint?
In 2012 he was at SCI and He was questioned by SCI members about hunting in the park. His explanation and methods were accepted.

This is the letter Koos gave to me at th Eastern sports show and I told him I would post it for him.

Mike
I will read again tomorrow, to make corrections.