With reference to the article found at http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/3511048681 , and specifically the last paragraph;
the number of lodges that the Timbavati can sustain from an ecological and financial perspective is limited. It is generally accepted by reputable scientists that photographic tourism operations are more damaging to the environment than sustainable, well managed hunting operations. Simple anecdotal evidence from the Timbavati illustrates the point: it takes approximately 18,000 guest nights in lodges (or one guest staying for 50 years) to generate the same revenue that the Timbavati Association receives from one hunter shooting one rhino.

Obviously the figure of 18000 will vary, but using that same figure as an example, think of 18000 'snap happy, slack jawed, pooping, piddling tourists, compared to ones and twos [hunters that is] and just consider the waste generated. Add to that the noise polution and the Okavango will be really on its way to being a big bloody cess [sies] pool.

My thoughts?

It's over. Likely never to return.

Jeff

Facts rarely sway the emotional reasoning of the bunny huggers. It's not about conservation, it's about feel-good decisions.

What a shame. Botswana was a true gem.

well said Wendell and it wont stop the chineese greed for animal parts which is the sadest part of it all

Sadly the latest round of discussions with senior officials in the Ministry have reiterated the confirmation that hunting on Public lands in Botswana is closed indefinitly, although this is refered to as a moritorium not a ban. This alledgedly includes special dispensation tags , community areas , CHA's but excludes private land , however the Botswana Wildlife Producers Assoc ( game ranchers ) have indicated that the current situation in regards to regulations and the future of ranching is unacceptable and they have set down a time limit for more constructive interaction with the Authorities.
This coincides with the latest aerial census which puts Elephant numbers at over 200 000 and climbing. Given that Biologists peg the maximum biomass for Botswana elephant at 50 000 , we have the equivalent of 150 000 DC 12 bulldozers ploughing through the wilderness causing irreversible environmental damage. But bear in mind that decisions are made on information gathered , this information is largely influenced and manipulated by anti hunting organisations that are well funded and organized. The land use change is still not accepted by all and is being implemented against the will of the vast majority of Batswana. The moratorium is not set in concrete and we will continue to persue every avenue to highlight the advantages of hunting as a tool of conservation.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
Sadly the latest round of discussions with senior officials in the Ministry have reiterated the confirmation that hunting on Public lands in Botswana is closed indefinitly, although this is refered to as a moritorium not a ban. This alledgedly includes special dispensation tags , community areas , CHA's but excludes private land , however the Botswana Wildlife Producers Assoc ( game ranchers ) have indicated that the current situation in regards to regulations and the future of ranching is unacceptable and they have set down a time limit for more constructive interaction with the Authorities.
This coincides with the latest aerial census which puts Elephant numbers at over 200 000 and climbing. Given that Biologists peg the maximum biomass for Botswana elephant at 50 000 , we have the equivalent of 150 000 DC 12 bulldozers ploughing through the wilderness causing irreversible environmental damage. But bear in mind that decisions are made on information gathered , this information is largely influenced and manipulated by anti hunting organisations that are well funded and organized. The land use change is still not accepted by all and is being implemented against the will of the vast majority of Batswana. The moratorium is not set in concrete and we will continue to persue every avenue to highlight the advantages of hunting as a tool of conservation.

200,000 eles?? Wow..When did those results come out?

Thanks for the update and keep fighting!

I was there last August. We could not drive 10 yards without seeing how the elephants have destroyed everything .

I am told a bull jumbo consumes 150 pounds of vegetation every day. If half of those elephants are bulls, then they are consuming 150,000,000 pounds of vegetation a day. That does't even count cows. Is that much new vegetation being generated? My guess is not a chance In hell.

We saw or witnessed rampant poaching last August.

In 1997 I spent 5 days at the Chobe Safari Lodge. I was in a small aluminum boat on the river when a herd of +/-100 Elephant moved down from the Botswana side and swam across the river right in front of us. This took quite a long time and I shot lots of pics and video of the event. I consider it one of many unique experiences I've had in africa.

However, while staying at the Lodge I took due note of the devastation caused by the Elephants to the habitat on the Bots side of the river. It looked almost like moonscape. No grass, no large trees, denuded small trees and bare earth.

Now, just imagine what the Okavengo will look like in just a few years without ANY Elephant control. Bots was not taking off enough Ele before this ridiculous hunting ban. To me, this is demonstrative of a total lack of understanding of Elephants and the effect they have on their ecology, both flora and fauna. As the elephants proliferate without control and food sources are diminished, other species will cease to exist in the impacted areas. This has all been well documented, at least since the 1960's, to include before and after photographic evidence.

This is an ecological disaster in the making. Unfortunately it will be years before the devastation will be acknowledged.

NOTE: Larry is a bit off when he states a bull Ele consumes 150 pounds of food per day. In fact, a bull Ele may well consume 500 pounds of forage per day and will pass several hundred pounds of dung daily, as well as drinking 50 gallons of water per day (although an Ele may go several days without drinking, when necessary) and requires additional water for bathing. They are incredibly complex animals that have an equally complex impact on the environment in which they reside.

Does anyone know if that report of 200,000 eles is official? The last census I saw was 123,000.

Lion hunter,

In 94 I stayed in Chobe Lodge, saw the exact same thing. Could not believe a mouse could survive on what was left in Chobe Park. The Elephants would come down to the river, drink, then swim across, using their trunks as snorkels. Eat in the Caprivi all night and swim back the next morning.

Quite a sight.

Unfortunately, I suspect the Elephant poaching will continue to rise. I doubt there will be an overpopulation problem in 10 years. We may see the opposite.

I hope I'm wrong.

Safari2 - Whether there is 123,000 or 200,000 elephants in Bots, matters not. One only needs to hunt there a time or two, to actually see the massive devestation being caused by the grossly over population of elephants throughout the northern half of the country.

In 2008 the numbers I was looking at then, indicated roughly 140,000 plus elephants in country. I've hunted Bots 4 times since 2005, three times for elephants - they are EVERYWHERE, and destroying EVERYTHING. The change to the environment, and the eco-system is obvious, and will only get worse. Massive culling is needed immediately, but it will never happen!!!!

Wendell & Aaron,

Great to read your input on this issue.

Unfortunately, most african hunters, including those who have hunted an Elephant, don't understand nor recognize the devastating impact these immense animals have on their environment. Unless you spend a lot of time in africa and visit many countries, it is difficult to grasp the true enormity of the Elephant problem of overpopulation. A cow begins breeding at approximately 15 years and will throw a calf every 15 months for the rest of her life expectancy of 50-60 years. So, sport hunting of Elephants will NOT even keep the population in check. And the fact that some countries do not allow the taking of cows only exacerbates the problem.

I love Elephants and love hunting them. My SIL and I will be going for two more bulls in June. I sincerely hope my 3 year old grandson will be able to hunt them someday. However, I have real concerns about the viability of Elephants and the continuing opportunity to hunt them if what's happened in Botswana spreads to other countries.

Cheers, and keep well,

Scriptus, or should I call you by the politically correct name "COMRADE" Do any of our politicians have brains? Remember we are regarded worldwide as "the Planet of the Apes" REMEMBER? These nutters have absolutely no reasoning faculty in that hout kop of theirs!!! Ever smacked one on the head?

quote:

Originally posted by lal:
Scriptus, or should I call you by the politically correct name "COMRADE" Do any of our politicians have brains? Remember we are regarded worldwide as "the Planet of the Apes" REMEMBER? These nutters have absolutely no reasoning faculty in that hout kop of theirs!!! Ever smacked one on the head?

I think that things could get hot if I was addressed as "comrade."
Ever smacked one on the head?
I refuse to answer that question as it will incriminate me!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Safari2 - Whether there is 123,000 or 200,000 elephants in Bots, matters not. One only needs to hunt there a time or two, to actually see the massive devestation being caused by the grossly over population of elephants throughout the northern half of the country.

In 2008 the numbers I was looking at then, indicated roughly 140,000 plus elephants in country. I've hunted Bots 4 times since 2005, three times for elephants - they are EVERYWHERE, and destroying EVERYTHING. The change to the environment, and the eco-system is obvious, and will only get worse. Massive culling is needed immediately, but it will never happen!!!!

Yes I am sure on the ground it looks like alot of eles! I was just making the point that 200k is a big milestone and just might raise a few more eyebrows as it related to the suspension of the elephant hunting quotas. I would like to see somthing in print regarding the recent aerial survey.

Another related question Aaron...do you now if anyone is working on hunting in SE Angola? That will be the next logical place to look with Bots closing. Not saying it will be easy..but I suspect Angola is about where Mozambique was 20 years ago with regards to hunting. The difference with Angola will be that it will have one great hunting region..the SE, where as Moz. has about 5 (Niassa, Delta, W. Tete Province, Central Moz. and the SW bordering KNP and Gohnarezou).

One of the most likely near-term results will be the migration of elephants into neighboring habitats with better food supplies. While habitat in Botswana will get trashed, hunting in neighboring countries should improve and they will have to deal with the influx of Botswana elephants.

The long-term implications of this should bring elephant hunting back into the discussion. When the mainstream media can no longer ignore the ecological damage that over-population of elephants causes a new discussion will be possible.

Look at what has happened in the areas of the U.S. over-populated with whitetails (not that a whitetail can do anywhere near the damage of an ele!). Once car-deer collisions and damage to yards, gardens, etc. becomes unacceptable the non-hunters start to welcome hunting. Talk of deer contraception and other ineffective options fades away. The only other viable alternative is culling and sharp-shooters and when faced with that choice rational minds revert to sport hunting.

This might be a more positive outlook but it would certainly seem impossible to ban hunting and just watch the destruction while doing nothing about it!