It is my understanding that both governments have banned all non CITES related elephant hunting for 2014 as a knee jerk reaction to the USFWS decision. Sorry if this has already been posted. I'm booked in Moz for 2016...hope this changes by then.

I definitely heard nothing about it, I have also checked with PHASA and they have not been informed of it at the time I spoke to them. Can you give more information on where you got the information.

The latest I know about Mozambique is that they die hand in all the documentation to CITES and CITES must now scrutinize the documentation. We will have to wait on the CITES decision. This however has nothing to do with the ban of importing Elephant trophies by the USFWS. All countries must prove that they have a sustainable conservation program and give proof that the animal population is not under pressure before the will issue a quota for that country. Mozambique did not hand in the necessary documentation on time and that is why they did not get permits for certain animals that are on the CITES schedules.

Jaco, I understand what you are saying. What I meant was it was for NON CITES, or non exportable elephants...as a knee jerk reaction to the USFWS decision for public relation purposes. These are for elephants that were non exportable anyway, they won't release the permits to hunt them. I hope that makes sense, sorry if I wasn't clear.

AK145

I've sent you a PM.

Got it and responded. Thanks!

I think my wording is not correct somewhere...no harm intended. We will just see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:
Got it and responded. Thanks!

I think my wording is not correct somewhere...no harm intended. We will just see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:
Jaco, I understand what you are saying. What I meant was it was for NON CITES, or non exportable elephants...as a knee jerk reaction to the USFWS decision for public relation purposes. These are for elephants that were non exportable anyway, they won't release the permits to hunt them. I hope that makes sense, sorry if I wasn't clear.

I did call PHASA and at the time they were not informed that permits for no CITES Elephants were stopped. I will try and get hold of the permit office in Limpopo to try and get some clarity on it.

Thanks Jaco. I got an email today confirming that the Moz government will not be issuing any permits for non exportable elephants. It's a shame. Some of the folks booked for hunts in May are already re-booking for next year in the hopes by then it gets sorted out.

In the meantime...only 99 days until I head back to RSA in July for another great trip!

I hope Freischutz or Guy Whittall weigh in here. I am still confused as to this non-exportable elly permits in Mozambique issue.
My understanding is that you either buy a licence for an elly or you don't. Some countries will not allow the import of the trophy eg USA. There are no other permits issued except for local PAC, and these permits are only issued to the the local outfitter/PH/authority and are not for resale.

Hi AKI45 I spoke to the permit office in the Limpopo province where I do my hunting. They still issue permits for CITES Elephants and non CITES Elephants. A non CITES Elephant is a PAC Elephant for which the land owner must apply. He can then decide to cede the right to another person to hunt the Elephant, but according to the person that I spoke to the person that hunts the PAC Elephant must be a RSA citizen it cannot be a foreign client.

Thans Jaco, I should have just said Mozambique then...my mistake. I know of two guys who's hunt has just been cancelled for May. The wording...however the permits are bought or issued to the outfitters...has been stopped. The government has cancelled the hunting however you want to put it.

AK145, you have a pm

Answered my friend!

Hi all

There is no PAC or Meat or non export elephant quotas And the only legal way of hunting or shooting any elephant in Mozambique is having a proper hunting license (type A) in with your name on it and hunting with an licensed outfit with an allocated elephant quota for the area and have in possession a paid elephant tag in your license. Otherwise it could be a live changing experience for you in more than one way

Hope that clears thing up?

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:
Hi all

There is no PAC or Meat or non export elephant quotas And the only legal way of hunting or shooting any elephant in Mozambique is having a proper hunting license (type A) in with your name on it and hunting with an licensed outfit with an allocated elephant quota for the area and have in possession a paid elephant tag in your license. Otherwise it could be a live changing experience for you in more than one way

Hope that clears thing up?

Cheers

Just what I thought.

Thank you very much for clearing this up.

Thanks Freischutz, that was my initial understanding.

Saeed and Nitro

You welcome

Tony, what about the "permits" issued for problem Elephants?

I have encountered this in all the provinces in the north. It is an official document, but not the "type A" license.

Example:
Elephant raids crops and kills old man.
Next day a bicycle driver comes into camp with a piece of paper from the local chef de posto or the administrator of agricura INFORMING you that you as the responsible "cassadore" in the area have to go an kill this Elephant.....of course, sadly, you and me both know that the the "problem" animal becomes the first elephant encountered.....

Any case, I would love to hear your answer to this.

Please take note that I am not even implying selling a PAC Elephant to a client. All I am asking is this:
ARe you 100% sure the only way to legally kill an Elephant is if you are in possession of a Typ A license to do so?

Things are changing now, but the way it used to be up to last year?

A friend in Mozambique said to me that problem Elephant can only be shot by a registered and accredited ph and only on government order, don't know if that includes chiefs. It may not be hunted by a local or foreign hunter.

Hi Charl

What happens is that normally the Regulo (chief) has to write a letter to the local posto from the there the chefe de posto has to communicate with the district, the district department( normally agriculture)
Has to communicate with provincial departments be it tourism or agriculture they would have to get permission from the governor of the province.

Remember the credential you receive should state that you have permission to chase and as last resort kill the problem elephant and not just any elephant.

One of the problems we have with CITES and USFSW is that the real PAC elephants aren't identified and that there are to many elephants that are shot unnecessarily.

Also under the new law one should be very careful when getting involved with any PAC issues.

Regards

Toni

I'm a little confused...and bear with me because this is a learning experience. So how does someone legally hunt an elephant in Mozambique? Can someone hunt an elephant if they are hunting with a licenced PH/Outfitter who has purchased a valid permit and has a proper license?

Thanks for the help as well guys.

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:
I'm a little confused...and bear with me because this is a learning experience. So how does someone legally hunt an elephant in Mozambique? Can someone hunt an elephant if they are hunting with a licenced PH/Outfitter who has purchased a valid permit and has a proper license?

Thanks for the help as well guys.

Yes you can hunt under these condition legally elephant in Mozambique however you can not import any part of Mozambique elephants in to the US USFW decision

Hope that is of help

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:
It is my understanding that both governments have banned all non CITES related elephant hunting for 2014 as a knee jerk reaction to the USFWS decision.

how is that not an intended reaction? USFWS is responding to a perceived threat to the elephant population; stopping elephants hunts, all of the or even some of them, reduces the number of elephants killed, supporting the population.

the logic does follow. whether or not the presumptions are correct is a different question. but a knee-jerk reaction, it is not. as I understand matters, it is an intended consequence.

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:

quote:

Originally posted by AK145:
It is my understanding that both governments have banned all non CITES related elephant hunting for 2014 as a knee jerk reaction to the USFWS decision.

how is that not an intended reaction? USFWS is responding to a perceived threat to the elephant population; stopping elephants hunts, all of the or even some of them, reduces the number of elephants killed, supporting the population.

the logic does follow. whether or not the presumptions are correct is a different question. but a knee-jerk reaction, it is not. as I understand matters, it is an intended consequence.

Mozambique never had or issued a non cites hunting quota since I have been operating in Mozambique and that is since 1994

Cheers