Did any of you guys see the article in the SCI mag about this cartridge??? I am trying to promote it and could use your input. So far it has accounted for over 40 one shot kills and according to a South African P.H., and I quote. " The combination of velosity and bullet weight of the .366 D.G.W. seemed more ideal than anything I've seen before."
I realise that lots of you have more big game, (African) hunting experiance then I do so I would like your opinion. There is lots of info on this cartridge in the Wildcat section of this sight.
Thanks in advance, your friend
Jud

P.S. This cartridge is in the tenth eddition of Cartridges of the world.

I have never heard of this caliber, but I have hunted Africa with the 9.3x62, 9.3x64 I have also witnessed the use of the 9.3x74 and .360/400 double rifles. All these are .366 bores and that should cover the spectrum...I'd be very interrested in the specs on this gun but I can tell you its just another gun that will do what the rest will do, it is no miracle cakiber, just another wildcat, and regardless of its balistics. It will kill no better or worse than the 338, 375 or 9.3x64 and a hoard of other calibers.....

I did hear of a 9.3 on the 404 case that some Africans are making great smoke about and no doubt it is a whiz banger, another over bore capacity whiz banger but like some of the new whiz bangers here in the states, they kick, bellow and rear up, but the velocity is only about 150 FPS when the chronograph comes out and the hype goes down.

That said I am always interrested in another .366 bore as I have a fondness for them. I have always liked the idea of a 338 necked up to 9.3...but its a wildcat and the 9.3x64 isn't..

Ray,

It is a 416 Rigby case necked down to 9.3mm (.366"). It would obviously take a big action to build this wildcat.

Just slightly smaller in diameter than the .378 Weatherby, but I imagine they are about the same thing. I guess you would get a slightly better SD out of a 300 grain .366" bullet compared to the 300 grain .375" bullet, but that is just splitting hairs.

I'm sure, given the same shots, the .378 Weatherby would have produced the same number of 1 shot kills. For that matter, the good old fashion 375H&H and 9.3x64 probably would have resulted in mostly 1 shot kills, given the same shot (distance, angle, weight of animal, shot location, etc.)

I do have to admit, it is always fun to have something new and different. Isn't that the reason we have divorce????? (Ooops, don't let my wife see this post).

Tim

I've met Jud and the cartridge's designer Dave Walker.The rifle Judd showed me was beautifly built, by him, on a 1917 U.S.Enfield action. The cartridge was designed to be the minimum legal caliber for dangerous game and have a bit better sectional density than the .375. Never the less it probably is no more effective than the .378 Weatherby.

I also read the post and have no doubt as to the efficacy and workmanship of the rifle and caliber. Having said that, I stick to easy to replace calibers when going hunting that far. Although I've always been lucky ( shit, I just jinxed myself)and never lost ANY luggage, chances are I will and trying to find a wildcat caliber is impossible. What calibers you say? Let's see, 06, 308, 300 (Win, Weatherby and H&H), 7 mag, 338, 375 H&H, 416 ( Rem, Rigby) 458 Win Mag and 470 NE. I'm sure there are a few others that I missed so don't be mad at me if I left any out! jorge

Bains,
It will not meet the legal requirments in some countries, but nobody checks anyway, but technically .366 won't fly in Tanzania, Two provinces in RSA, Zambia or Botswana and I say technically because these laws are not enforced...

If I have to pack a gun with that big action, which I will not, then I prefer more cross section of bullet, less velocity, as this caliber will have to deal with bullet integrity more than anything else..I'd rather have a 416 or 505 in that big action.

I see no place for high velocity big bores in Africa or anyplace else...the 300 RUMs & Wbys, the 416 Wby, 378 Wby and their ilk....The slower 300 Win., 300 H&H, 9.3x64, 9.3x62, 375 H&H, 338 Win. 416 Rigby, Rem. and 404 have proven themselves to be more dependable IMO...Most of the failures I have seen have been credited to high velocity...

Its the latest fad to up and down the 404 case, something the Germans did a 100 years ago and it came to pass, so to will this..

Just my take on the subject....

There is another "interesting" aspect to such wildcats chambered in high-end , carefully-built custom rifles. John Barsness has commented more than once about the results of pressure testing such combinations, the results of which show that the rig is operating at way high pressures -- like over 70,000 psi peak. The precision of the rifle chambering hides the effects on the cartridge case that you get from for example factory rifles.

I don't know what pressure testing has been done on this cartridge, but I expect it will be higher that people think.

jim

The hole idea of the .366 D.G.W. is to keep pressure on the low side, like 48500 CUP and get good performance out of a 24" barrel. If I run pressures in the Lazeroni range then it pushes 250 grain bullets at around 3400 FPS. Now you guys hunting African stuff know this type of velosity spells trouble!!!! Over here un fortunately they do not and are velosity crazy.
The P.H. I had in S.A. was very impressed with the .366 AFTER seeing it work. He is an avid reloader and a perponit of big and slow. His comment in an article he wrote about the .366 was. "The combination of velosity and bullet weight of the .366 D.G.W. seemed more ideal than anything I've seen before." If you look at the capasity of the parent case you will find for efficiancy 9.3 and 250 to 300 grain slugs are just about optimum. Yes I can run 65000 PSI and get more velosity but as you guys know that is for sales not reality. 250 grain at 3100 + 300 grain at 2800+ I do not think I need any more.
We are trying to get the round ligitimized and things are not looking all that bad. The point about not having available ammo is VERY TRUE it happened to the originator of this cartridge. Got to Zim, no ammo. On my trip that is somthing I worried about also.

Ray and Jim see it the way I do too.

Saeed's .375/404 is a better package.

If I want something "neat and different with no factory ammo" I'll go with a .375 Lapua, and at least be technically legal everywhere, and I do not want to load it to anywhere near pie-in-the-sky. Hunting Africa does not require all that whiz-bang in a medium bore like the .366.

The .378 Weatherby or (.375 Rigby Belted) is already overbore or at least too much of a good thing.

Now, I ask again, what does "DGW" in the .366 DGW stand for? "Dangerous Goods Warning?" That is all I could figure after an internet search on .366 DGW.

What I dont understand is... every once in a while, when you hear about a new cartridge being used in Africa, the author or person writting on a forum writes something stupid like.... "and the PH said he has never seen animals drop so fast from another cartridge" or some other BS like that.
Why would anyone write or say a statement so blind and ignorant about someone who has so much game experiance(the PH)?

Just you guys wait and see how my PH (Johan Calitiz himself) declares the 600 Overkill as the most potent Killing Machine he has ever seen! Particularily after I shoot it in the foot and knock it plumb over! Damn ele will simply die from fright and the 13K of Muzzel energy he knows I've wacked him with! If Johan doesn't say it, I will! I'll get it on tape too! You'll see it all next year!-Rob

OK Ray, when you start picking on my 300 Weatherby, them's fightin' words!" I was with you until you mentioned the 300 WBY. It's been around a darned long time, arguably used by some of the world's most prolific ( notice I didn't say expert ) hunters and although I do love my 300 H&H, I just think the WBY is more versatile. thoughts? jorge

I concur with Hunter Jim. Since pressure goes up as case capacity goes down and up as square of the bullet dia. (compared to the 378), then this must be a high pressure cartridge in a well designed rifle.

steve

DagaRon,
DGW stands for David G. Walker the cartridge's designer.

Thank you, Jungli.

The .366 D.G.W. is flatter shooting then the.378 but the .378 has more frontal area. However for the most part flat shooting is not all that important with the big cartridges. Developing cartridges and wildcats add a hole different perspective for hunters who look at a rifle as more then a too. One thing that helps the D.G.W. out is that 9.3 bullets are designed for a max velosity about 300 fps slower then it pushes them so they tend to be rather violent expanding. Standard soft point bullets blow up and are basically useless. Barnes X or Swift A Frames work well. These bullets tend to destroy everything for about a foot around the exit hole, but retain 90percent pluss of their weight.
Even though I am the one developing this cartridge I have to addmitte if I was only able to have one gun to hunt the world, at this point in time it would be the good old .375 H&H, maby the Rigby.

Oh yes as th the P.H.'s comment ask him yourself. Walter Enslin at kwansafaris@mweb.co.za He was probably just trying to make Dave and I feel good

Jorge,
I will eat crow on adding Wby to that post..The 300 Wby is a great caliber, that I cannot dispute.

Judson,
I believe that gun with the today available 9.3 bullets designed for 9.3x62 and maybe 9.3x64 will kill like the hammer of Thor. I believe what you said about totla meat destruction and I believe he got 40 straight kills, I don't think he shot Eland, but he may have...

I just don't believe its needed anywhere I hunt, at least its not for me...

But, I'm sure many high velocity splash'em across the pasture shooters will love it, and there are a whole bunch of long range shooters and shooters that judge a gun by it total destruction.

This should be the THE CALIBER, for that crew...and it should work like a charm at 600 plus yards if they hit them in the right spot, and they do now and then.

That is a problem with long range shooting, too many people try it and do not have the experiance. Also to much can go wrong by the time the bullet gets there. I started a small riot on one of the web sights by saying I did not think that a person had any business shooting over 300 yards at game. I also added that to me that is not hunting nor is it target shooting.
One Eland has been shot with the .366 and it was a one shot kill. Though the cartridge can be loaded to Lazeroni type pressures I leave my loads in the Rigby levels which means 3100 or less with 250 grain bullets and 300 grain just under 2900.
You know alot more about it then I do but it seems when even the best bullets go much over this they do funny things like go places they are not meant to when an animal is hit.

You know when you think about it there is nothing in this world that we hunt that could not be killed well with the good old .375 H&H so why the other calibers? Maby it is to add fun to hunting, After all all you need for transportation is a bike, why do you need high performance or luxury cars. Life is not just what you need it is desire imagination and fun.
If the attitude of alot of hunters prevailed then the .375 would have never been invented we would still be hunting with clubs. Our society is driven by inovation not stagnation so lets keep an open mind for stuff like the hot Wildcat .458 Lott!!!

Hey Judson !!

How fast will the 270 gr. and the 300 gr. go when loded to LAzzeroni kind of pressure,,in the .366 D.G.W.?

I never tried to run the 270 grain slugs up to Laveroin type pressures which run as high as 70000 psi acording to one book on cartridges. Nearing these pressures the 250 grain slugs will travel at around 3450 fps. However this is not a smart loading and case life is very short. 300 grain bullets would be around 3200+ fps but again not real smart. Pressures this high will eat your barrel, wear out the rifle and in high temperatures can become very dangerous in a real hurry.
In addition to this there are not bullets designed for these velosities and though impressive through the cronograph these loads would be a dismal falure on big game. The loads I run with the 300 grain bullets at around 2900 or less, and 250 grain bullets at over 3100 are the upper limits and many feel this is excessive if .366 diameter bullets did not have as high a sectional density as they do even these velosities could cause problems as far as penetrating in a straight line. Alot of your African P.H.s do not like these new .30 caliber "Super" mags for this reason. Hunting with somthing different for many adds to the fun but keep it safe, velosity is not everything and there is no "Super cartridge" that makes up for poor shoot placement. The reason for the success so far of the .366DGW is first due to the hunters who use it know how to shoot and placed their shots well. Second those Fantastic Swift A Frame bullets.

Yes Judson ,,i must agree !!
I think 65.000 p.s.i,,should be the safest maximum. I saw the .378 Wby which i have been giving a lot of thought,,been loaded to 3040 fps with the 300 gr.The pressure was 70.000 p.s.i !
I'm not sure that's safe unless one use strong cases like Lazzeronis and bell mast cases.
But i'm impressed ;3200 fps with a 300 gr is plain awesome !Man,,the recoil must be stout !!
Again,,i'm impressed by it's ballistic potential,,and the case looked prettyer than i thought !
3450 fps with 250 gr. is also stunning,,that's the same the .30-378 will do with factory ammo.
I have ordered the tenth version of COTW,,and i'm not sure if it really is out for sale,,could you help me ?

Until I learn how to hit stuff at 400 yards I'll just have to get by with my slow movers. You know, antiquated stuff like the 30-06 and 375H&H.

I will not shoot over 300 yards at other then paper. And there AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH THE 3006 or the .375 H&H!!!!! Both are great old clasics and may they last forever!!
The Tenth eddition is in print and shows velosities in the sane range. With H1000 you can go alittle higher in velosity and have low pressure but for best results keep the 300s around 2900 and the 250s no more then around 3250.

Judson,
You wrote "Rigby pressures" about the 250 grs at 3100 and 300grs at 2900 f/s. It is not true. That is Weatherbypressures.
378 Wby factoryloads delivers around 3050-3100 f/s with 270 grs and around 2850-2930 f/s with 300 grs bullets. And remember that the .366DGW has a smaller caliber and therefore will give more pressure with the similar bulletweigths when compared to the 378 Wby.
And a LOT of people have experienced problems with to high pressure with Weatherby factoryloads in the African heat....

That may be. Don't the Weatherby's come with tighter throats nowadays? I have been told that they haven't freebored them critters since the old days. With tight throats, of course the pressures are going to be high.

I think my sense of humor is a little too dry for Judson. I was making fun of the proliferation of new cartridges which either add nothing or add something you don't need.

No I got the humor, old cartridges are like classic car. The new are faster, handles better, and small nice but they don't got no class!