The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting 7x57 Mauser/.270 Plains game RifleGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Buspilot I have had both and if it were me I would go for the 7x57. Before I get accused of bashing the 270 I agree the 270 is a great cartridge, but I think it is a bit loud and the extra speed/ flatness is not necessary you take most of your shots under 300. IMO a slow (circa 2600 fps) heavy-for-calibre bullet is preferable to a fast/ flat bullet and ranges under 200 yards. I have a soft spot for the 7x57. It is quiet, low recoil, wide range of bullets and holds a lot of nostalgia. With those long 175 grain bullets is will penetrate some big critters and being a handloader you will be able to get the best out of it. What is your average range in Oregon? ------------------ Richard | |||
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| Moderator |
Buspilot, I discussed this with a friend some time ago and he produced a copy of some old Kynnoch(sp?)factory load data, and balistcially there was little to choose between the two. His opinion was that in modern actions, if you reload, the 7x57mm can be loaded to similar velocites with similar bullet weights as a standard factory .270W load, and conversly a .270W could be loaded more moderately to reduce recoil and meat damage if that is thought to be a problem... Never really looked deeply into the matter myself, but reloading certainly does give the shooter a greater degree of flexibility... Regards, Peter | |||
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| <T/Jazz> |
The 270 gets my nod, but I have never hunted or shot game with a 7x57. I take it you like the bigger bullet idea? Well the 270 can be hand loaded with some bullets up (according to Barnes reloading manual) 195 grains. If you are in the USA, it makes for finding ammo easier also. I think the 30-06 would even be a better choice bullet wise you know. | ||
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quote: You have already answered your question. ------------------ | |||
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I've shot deer with my 7x57 and would love to take it along to Africa as a light rifle. In fact, after our DG hunt this year, I intend to go back to SA or Namibia for another plains game hunt, and at this point plan to take a 7x57 and a 300 H&H--good calibers and a bit of nostalgia. I favor the 175-grain bullet, and Sellier & Bellot make a good factory load in 173 grain. With that weight bullet, I'd cap the 7x57 at 200 yards. It will probably do fine beyond that, but the drop is significant and I'm not a real whiz at range determination, so I'll reserve the 7x57 for smaller antelope under 200 yards. And if the next question is, how will you know what will show up at which distance, the answer is, I always hunt with one of my sons, and he'll be carrying whatever I'm not, so one of us will be properly armed. | |||
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I've not had any experience with the .270 but I have used the 7x57 quite a bit and really like it. To me the only real difference is the fact you really must reload for the 7x57 while you can get high quality factory loads for the .270. However for Africa I like a little more bullet diameter and prefer enoough power to get complete penetration (don't like Barnes-X) as it makes any tracking required a lot easier and time you don't spend looking for animals after the shot is time you can spend hunting for others. | |||
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Buspilot, I'd take the 7X57 and load it with the 160 grain Nosler Partition at a bit over 2,600 fps. That combo would cover any reasonable scenario. Don't take any rear end shots and you'll do fine. I'd limit it to elk size game if taking it on plains game safari. That covers about everything up to Roan (who hunts them today?) and eland. Rich Elliott ------------------ | |||
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I will choose the 270 over the 7 x 57, simply you will get more choice in factory loaded ammo, but the 7 x 57 will do fine, it is more the one that looks good to you and you feel good about. Both are good rounds. | |||
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My wife used the 7x57 on our last safari to Zim and did very well on the plains game there. She put evey thing down with one shot. 160 gr. Nosler Prt. 48.0 gr. W760 - Rem. brass- CCI LRM Primer. 2650vel. This load is max in her rifle. A little Ruger 77 RSI, only 500 made in this caliber. Paul K> | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Gents: Very good feedback. Thanks a bunch and keep it coming. Range in Oregon, quite honestly, is often under 100 yds west of the Cascade Mtns. On the east side it can be 250-300 yds. It can be 80* in September or raining, and later snowing in the November elk season. Still, I love walnut/wood, though admittedly, synthetic/ss would be a "wiser". I was concerned about the ammo availability for the 7x57 in Africa should my handloads not make it through. I assume .270 would be easier to find. Interesting one of you mentioned the Sellier & Belot ammo as I was wondering if it is good stuff. Cabela's has it on sale for about $8.00 or less. That's a steal as it is usually about $14 off the retail shelf at my stores. Is S&B good ammo? Anyone using it? Of course, I handload, but it might be a good source of shootable ammo and brass. Thanks for your time gentlemen. ------------------ | ||
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Heya Bus... I like your God, Guns and Gibsons "tag"... the correct order too! All Gibson's acoustic guitars are made here in Bozeman. My wife plays, and when she needed a new guitar a couple of years ago we just went over to the plant, tried out a dozen different guitars in the model she wanted, and bought the one with the best sound and action. If you're in the area, give me a holler and we can go over to the plant. To your original question...! I'm not really into cartridge/rifle nostalgia. I'm not saying it's something anyone should grow out of (this is all fun and games anyway) but that's what happened to me. I went through my "nostalgic period", owning every possible classic chambering... a 250 Savage, several 257 Roberts', a 7x57, etc, etc... only the 257 Roberts still holds my affection. Anyway, I did once own a Ruger M77 7x57 "International" (RSI - special run)... it was a horrific shooter with a very long throat. Others have reported the same thing to me regarding, in particular, Ruger 7x57's. It's obiously not a hard and fast rule that Ruger 7x57's don't shoot, just my experience and others I know.
Regardless, the 7x57 is certainly a "classic" for Africa, but no more really than the 270 is a "classic" in the American West. I like the 270, and am having another one put together this month! Mine, however, is an all-stainless Model 70. Right now it's a 30-06. I have a nearly un-used stainless 270 featherweight barrel I'll have screwed on, mount a Leupod 2x7 on top and re-stock it in (as my buddy Mark calls it) "African Walnut" (fiberglass)... guess you can tell I'm into utility. Best Regards, Brad Amundson | |||
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Brad, I'm glad you cleared that "Gibson's" business up. I thought he was referring to Gin straight up with a touch of Dry Vermouth and a pearl onion! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rich Elliott (edited 03-09-2002).] | |||
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So did I Rich. | |||
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Brad: I have a couple of Ruger 77s in 7x57 other than my wifes RSI and your right, the throats are horribly long . The RSI is also long ,but I could get within .050 of the lands and the only load it would shoot was the one I posted earlier. That rifle about drove me MAD!!! Come to think of it , it liked the Hornady 175gr RN pretty well also. I have since bought her a Sako 75 in 30-06 which seems to like every thing I try in it. THANK GOD!! Paul K | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Brad: Thanks for the offer to go to the Gibson plant! As a matter of fact I was there two summers ago. Picked up a Western Classic SJ-200 and know Bill Gonder, Ren and the gang. My grandfather was a B Western Silver Screen Cowboy and helped design the SJ-200 so I know Gibsons pretty well! Others: Long throats, huh? Doesn't sound like good grounds for accurate reloading! Take care... ------------------ | ||
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BusPilot (Airbus?)... great family connection to Gibson! They're really nicely made guitars. If you're through Bozeman International (hah!), give me a ring anyway... it's always great to get to know people from these forums. Let us know what you end-up deciding on for your plains-game rifle. Best Regards, Brad | |||
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Paul, sounds like we had the same limited-run rifle. Mine DID drive me mad! I really don't believe it was the mannlicher stock which was the culprit. I've had two other RSI's (250 Savage and 308) and they both shot well. The 308 was a sub-moa rifle. If anything, the mannlicher stock seemed to "settle-down" the pencil barrel on the RSI's. I still have a real soft spot for the RSI, and wouldn't mind having another in 308 Win. Brad | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Brad: Yes sir, Airbus 320 First Officer fo jetBlue out of JFK (live in Oregon). Next time I'm in Bozeman maybe we could hook up. Say do you think the Mk II would have the same problems as the RSI in regard to the 7x57 accuracy department? Long throats? I would love to have an RSI. At least one! ------------------ | ||
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Hi BP... not sure. I've owned around fifteen different Ruger's. Factory rifles are always a bit of a crap-shoot... some were mediocre, some shot decent and a few shot very well. If you like the rifle, buy it. You'll need to replace the non-adjustable MkII trigger (which is pretty easy), and it would be a fun project. I might sound crazy, but rifles that are great shooters without a little bit of work are kinda boring. Half the fun is turning a factory "turkey" into an eagle! Long commute to Jamaica, NY! My dad drove an Eighteen Wheeler (747) out of JFK for years until his retirement in 89' from the now defunct TWA.
Brad Amundson | |||
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I have shot a 270 for years and just sold my last pre-64 custom. I never had any emotional attachment to a 270 and I have owned several. When it comes to the 7x57 that is another matter. I have two and just started building another. I have a 1908 Mauser carbine custom 7x57 with a 19" barrel, a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1910 (formerly a 9.5x57 and rebarreled to 7x57)and I am building a 7x57 rifle on a 1908 Mauser with a Lotham Walther barrel and English Walnut stock. My favorite load for the Mausers is the 162 gr SPBT Hornady. I shoot 175 gr Core-Locs in the Mannlicher. I haven't tried the new 135 gr GS Custom HVs I just received from Gerard. At over 3000 fps they should add a new diminsion to the rifles. My brother is a one rifle hunter and used the 270 for 30 years in Colorado. He swore by it for years, however, he just switched to an STW. You can't go wrong either way, so in reality it is the one, as you say, that gives you the warm and fuzzies. Steve ------------------ | |||
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I salute you and your Dad! Keep in touch, BP ------------------ | ||
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I do not like the .270 for use on any thing heavier than springbok. For where I hunt and my experience with the 7x57(.275 Rgby)is the 175 and 160 grs bullets out penetrate the .270 on Kudu, Waterbuck, and Warthog. The .270 is not a bad round it lacks bullet weight which is paramount to making a clean kill with a well placed shot. | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Aleckojjensen: Thanks for your input, Sir. May I ask which rifle(s) you're shooting your 7x57(s) in? Some of the gents mentioned problems with long throated chambers in the 7x57 as they were machined for the traditional heavier (ie, longer) 175gr bullets. Have you had a problem with this in your rifle(s)? Would be interested to know. Thanks, BP ------------------ | ||
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the rifle I used in .275 cal was an original Westley and Richards. I guess it had a long throat, but truthfully I do not know. | |||
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I don't know how many head of game you have taken with a .270 as opposed to the 7x57 and I don't want to lessen the (obvious) good qualities of the 7x57. Having said that; Let me interject the following info. Numerous impala, 2 bushbuck, two kudu, five zebra, 6 warthog, 1 wildebeeste, 1 sable and 2 leopard. All taken with 160gr Nosler Partition bullets. As to penetration, well,with the zebra, the bullets exited on four of the five. With the sable and wildebeeste, the bullets were located in the off shoulder and were typical Nosler. The leopard, being soft skinned, the bullets zipped right through them, anchored on the spot. Oh, by the way; the .270 is Hell on baboons! JLS quote: | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Mr. Schott: I appreciate your input. This post was not intended to be a 7mmx57 vs. .270 post. Those were just the two calibers that it's come down too. Frankly, the .270 would be an ideal gun for me in Oregon. I just would like to experience the 7mm Mauser and see what K. Bell may have experienced with it and many others. By the way, how many of those game were one-shot kills with the .270? I mean the question with all due respect to a fine hunter and caliber. ------------------ | ||
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Mr. Schott Most of the clients use the same 270 bullet on deer as they do on African game. African game is much tougher and the lighter bullets that are common in the 270 only do well on open ground animals with the maximum wieght of say 150 lbs. The 7x57 made its name around the 173 grs bullet. I have never witnessed a client use anything heavier than 130 grs bullets out of a 270. My disdain for the round lies in the fact of bullet weight avalibility not the virtues of the round. The 270 is a good round I prefer the 7 X 57 call it nostalgia, call it avalibility in the RSA. I just like the 7x57 | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
aleko: Is it your experience that the 7x57 ammo is more available in Africa than the .270? Is it a regional thing or pretty much throughout Africa? That is certainly another factor. ------------------ | ||
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My first centerfire was a MkI in 7x57. While it shot O.K. with hot 140 gr. Noslers and killed California pigs like asteroid strikes, it really, really preferred 175 gr. Hornady. In the ensuing years I, too, have come to prefer long-for-caliber bullets like the 7x57, 6.5x54, .318 WR, etc. They aren't for shooting across canyons, but then in the California foothills, we don't have many. It's sort of a drier Western Cascades. Since in Africa you will run into animals of many different body weights, I tend to follow Terey Wieland's advice, "when in elephant country, carry an elephant rifle." The 7x57 with 170+ gr bullets will have you ready for anything up to kudu. Should an eland show up, switch to the heavy. Damned moose-size Chateau-Briands take a bit more killing, in my experience. Sarge [This message has been edited by Oldsarge (edited 03-12-2002).] | |||
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Remember the 7x 57 is a military caliber so some areas there is a prohibition against all military rounds. The RSA has no such prohibition. It is just a popular cartridge and I believe there is a great historical attachment to the round from its use in the Boer War | |||
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BusPilot: I would be delighted, and proud to report ALL the animals listed were perfect one-shot kills. However, any failure of said osk was not the fault of the .270, but of the shooter(s). The sable and wildebeeste were shot at aproximate distances of 80yds., and were knocked to their respective knees with the first shot; but a second was required to finish them as they were not up,and running. One of the zebra required three shots. The zebra was a gut-shot stallion, and the following two shots were taken while he was "underweigh" shall we say. Both were in the boiler-room, but it required a bit of time for the animal to realize it was dead on its feet. I don't believe shooting a larger calibre would have made any difference. A poorly placed bullet is just that, regardless of calbre. And I did watch an impala take four rounds before it expired. Again, poor shot placement. Years past, I had an accurate 7x57, which I did indeed enjoy shooting. But at the time, I was just beginning to hand-load, and I was given a set of dies for the .270 and didn't have any for the 7x57. Perhaps had it been the other way around, I would be shooting the 7x57 today. Whichever you choose, use quality bullets and go have a marvelous time. JLS quote: | |||
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| <Dogger> |
BusPilot, for what it is worth, I have a Ruger M77 Mark II chambered in 7x57; I purchased it new in June 2000. Topped off with a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x40. The only handload I have worked with is the Speer 145 grain flat based hotcor spitzer in front of 48 grains of H414, Frontier brass and CCI magnum primers. This load shoots under 1 inch at 100 yards in my rifle, and is oh so easy on the ears and shoulder. The rifle also shoots Factory fodder very well: Federal 175 grainers, Federal 140 grainers, Hornady 139 grainers (2700 fps loading) and Winchester 145 grain load. Groups do open up a bit with the Hornady light magnum ammo (a shame, at it clocks at 2830 fps according to factory specs). But all the factory stuff shoots accurately enough "fer huntin'". I have been really pleased with this rifle. I am fairly confident that I have a "long throat" as I can seat bullets beyond OAL and not engage the rifling. But... it hasn't had a noticeable impact on accuracy for me. I am trying to talk myself into buying a 270 or a 30-06 but haven't succeeded. Jack O-Connor was a big fan of the 7x57, and apparently it was his wife's favorite caliber, "killing as well as the 30-06 but without the recoil." Just my 2 cents. | ||
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| <BusPilot> |
Dogger! "For what it is worth?" Are you kidding?! It's exactly what I was looking for! Decision made--7x57! Only thing I was wondering is did you buy it in walnut and blue? ------------------ | ||
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| <BusPilot> |
Mr. Schott: Thanks for your honesty. Like I said, it takes nothing away from the shooter or the caliber. I appreciate your getting back with me. If only animals would stand still when we're shootin'! (By the way, great name for a shooter!). BP ------------------ | ||
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| <Dogger> |
BusPilot, yes, mine is walnut and blue. Classic American stock profile. I really like the modified Mauser action that Ruger has thoughtfully made a part of this rifle. It is a real honey. It shoots accurately, and is really a pleasure on the shoulder. I recently acquired the Hornady reloading manuals and will be experimenting with some 154 grain and heavier loads. The Leupold 3-9x40 is a nice complement to the rifle. I think you will enjoy yours!!! | ||
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Buspilot- You can get the same rifle in a 280 Rem. Dilema solved. I own 11 rifles more powerful than a 257 Roberts and less powerful than a 300 WM. I wouldn't dream of actually doing it, but I could throw them all away and get a 280 and never look back. If you handload, a 280 with 139-175 gr bullets covers alot of situations. | |||
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| <BusPilot> |
Dogger: I'll be interested in hearing how your loads are working in your rifle. Hornady has a great line up of bullets in 7mm and you could do it all with just that brand alone. Let me know how it goes. I'll be starting load development as soon as it warms up a bit. Still a little cold here yet. Take care, BP ------------------ | ||
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