Last weekend I took out a group of biltong hunters. I needed an extra tracker and went to Shongane to find Jim that I have used many times in the past. When I got to his house he was not there and on enquiry, I found that he died a couple of weeks ago. Two woman took me to his wife. Johana had also worked for me in the past. What a shock I got when I saw her. She could not walk anymore and friends had to help her as she can do nothing for herself. I asked her why she does not go to the docter, mher reply was that she did not have any money.

This was the first time I have seen a person suffering from aids or rather dying of Aids. It is really not a nice sight. My problem is that the people in the rural areas suffer the most. They are not informed, they get very little help and the social grants does not reach them. Most of them are very good loyal people that live a honest live, they work hard and they do not have all the know how like city people.

We then have a health minister that says it is not the goverments job to inform people in the rural areas about HIV/AIDS. How shocking in a country like RSA.

Well my eyes opened on the terrble life of the rural black people living with aids. We may not be able to stop the disease, but we can pray that the goverment will open their eyes and help this poor people that is suffering so much.

South Africa Aids policy attacked.


The United Nations special envoy for Aids in Africa has closed a major conference on the disease with a sharp critique of South Africa's government.

Speaking at the end of the week-long gathering in Toronto, Canada, Stephen Lewis said South Africa promoted a "lunatic fringe" attitude to HIV/Aids.

Mr Lewis described the government as "obtuse, dilatory and negligent about rolling out treatment".

A South African delegate reportedly hit back over Mr Lewis' comments.

Health ministry official Sibani Mngadi told the AFP news agency that Mr Lewis had a "vendetta" against South Africa.

Earlier another keynote speaker said South Africa's health minister should resign because she had minimised the role of anti-retroviral drugs.

Manto Tshabalala-Msimang has strongly defended her approach to fighting HIV and Aids, saying that building up the immune system is of critical importance.

She said this week she wanted to give citizens choices, including traditional treatments like garlic, lemons and beetroots, instead of championing anti-retroviral drugs.

South Africa's governing ANC party has said the government approach to the disease was "responsible and integrated".

The International Aids Conference began in Toronto earlier this week with high hopes.

The government has a lot to atone for. I'm of the opinion that they can never achieve redemption, said Stephen Lewis,UN special envoy.

Microsoft founder and philanthropist Bill Gates made the opening remarks, and spoke optimistically of the potential of male circumcision and microbicides to reduce levels of HIV infection.

Hours before Mr Lewis spoke on Friday, 44 activists from South Africa's main Aids lobby group were arrested while protesting against Ms Tshabalala-Msimang's policies.

The lobby group, the Treatment Action Campaign (TAC), had said it would announce plans on Friday "to make sure the health minister is sacked tomorrow".

Mr Lewis, who says he is "persona non grata" in South Africa as a result of falling out with the health minister, criticised the arrest of the group's members.

"It really is distressing when the coercive apparatus of the state is brought against the most principled members of society," he said.

The BBC's Peter Greste, in Johannesburg, says Aids activists in South Africa will applaud Mr Lewis' comments.

He pulled few punches in a speech that drew loud cheers from the Toronto audience.

South Africa's Aids policy is "more worthy of a lunatic fringe than of a concerned and compassionate state," he said.
He derided the government's policies as "wrong, immoral [and] indefensible".

Up to 800 people a day die of Aids in South Africa, Mr Lewis said.

"The government has a lot to atone for. I'm of the opinion that they can never achieve redemption."

Mr Lewis also reserved some scorn for the G8 group of leading industrialised nations, who he said were undermining their own promises made at Gleneagles in 2005 to fight Aids, TB and malaria in Africa.

Funds were running dangerously low, Mr Lewis said, accusing the G8 of a "Pavlovian betrayal" of poorer southern nations.

garlic, lemon and beetroot

Jaco,

I'm sorry to hear about Jim and his wife. It's not a nice way to die, that's for sure.

Unfortuantely, it seems to me that if a cure of some sort was found for AIDS/HIV, the ensuing population explosion in Africa would drag the whole continent even further down into the quagmire that it's already firmly stuck in... It's kind of a "loose-loose" situation.

And the WHO/UN/whoever can toss around all the condoms they want all over Africa, but it still won't catch on amongst the majority of africans throughout the continent. I even know of local black african healthcare personnel who talked amongst themselves about "It's no fun to eat a banana with the peel on", or "I like meat, not plastic". And this was educated healthcare personnel!!! So we can't really expect other regular locals to take condom use seriously either.

The only solution that would genuinly help Africa in this matter would be for people to stop screwing around as much as they do, and stick to only 1 partner. And as we both know, this is not likely to happen in the near future amongst what seems to be the majority of black african men.

Too true!

Its really is heart rending to experience this, something hass to give or turn, I believe people must reach a point where they just have to belive this is real, not some passing trend or foreign creation set upoen them, it hurst everyone!

About SA aids policy...as I have said before, since 1994 we have had fanatastic environemnt ministers but man, our health ministers in the ilk of Manto Tashabalala 'Maak jou Bang' are atrocious, where do they find them, they have been complete friging idiots!

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
garlic, lemon and beetroot

Why don't they just pay a witch doctor, and be done with it! The gov of RSA, like many other countries in Africa, are more interested in driveing around in long black limos, and takeing $1,ooo,ooo shopping trips to London, than worrying about the wellfare of their people! This fact is why most rich countries are reluctant to give money to these countries to help, they know where the money will go!

Erik,
I agree with what you are saying and it is almost impossible to stop the spreading of aids, with the way the Africans are thinking.

My biggest problem is that the people who is suffering the most are the people who voted for the current goverment, the moon and stars were promised to them, and now, the ministers are driving fansy cars, our "Honourable Health Minister" just bought a new Mercedes Benz worth R950000. The people suffering do not get educated on how to live with the disease, they do not get medicine or advice on how to eat healthy, social grants don't reach them. Once you have aids it is a death sentence, but let a person die with dignity.

Even our President do not believe that Aids develop out of HIV, he blames poverty, Ex deputy president thinks a shower can save him from HIV infection, lets say nothing about garlic, lemons and beetroot.

It is a shame how the goverment are treating its citizens

I am not trying to be flippant here, but do any poor rural blacks in Africa die with dignity?

This attitude towards AIDS and ignorance towards suffering and death by many black Africans reminds me of the way a woman will continue to wash clothes in the same spot where a crocodile has killed her children. It is almost like they do not even think about death until it is gripping them.

It could be worse.

The health minister could start recommending the raping of babies to cleanse the HIV/AIDS sufferer. Folk juju.

In 2001 my Botswana PH had his ranch hands dying of AIDS, "Slim's Disease." Diarrhea and wasting until they just could not show up to pick fruit.

He said the problem was "a different boyfriend or girlfriend every weekend." HIV in Botswana was about 35% incidence among sexually active adults back then.

Africa may end up depopulated and recolonized by the EU if this keeps up. Hey I wonder if they would let the USA have dibbs on a country?

RIP, the unofficial percentage I last heard from people I know working with these problems was closer to 70% amongst sexually active adults in Botswana.

They claimed the official numbers are way too low compaired to reality.

And the new boyfriend/girlfriend every weekend is indeed the cause...

Not to hijack the topic, but what about Tanzania? They claim that aids/hiv is only 6- 10% . Even if thats low-ball, why would they escape the high numbers with the migratory workers ect to help spread the disease?

Erik,
I quit looking at the rate there after it was up to 40%. Too depressing. 70% could be true now.

TSJ,
Good question for some research. Let's sic Bill and Melinda Gates on that. First off they'll have to get some RELIABLE data.

TSJ,

I don't remember the official or unofficial percentage in TZN at the moment, but it is undoubtably far higher than 6-10% amongst the sexually active adults.

Erik D,
I know a doctor worked in TZN, 60% is what they estimate.

Official African statistics shall be taken with a few shovels of salt

Cheers
/JOHAN

The rural areas in Namibia that I went into had prominent signs and notices posted about HIV. Whether or not the people choose to follow the advice is the question.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Africa may end up depopulated and recolonized by the EU if this keeps up. Hey I wonder if they would let the USA have dibbs on a country?

American blacks could learn a lesson from the zionists. I'm surprised there isn't more of a movement here in the USA to go back to the home land.

It's not just in the rural blacks. The soldiers in the Namibian army have a very high rate of HIV as they have paychecks and can afford plenty of "sex workers". The Botswana population has a high rate as they have a high standard of living (by African standards) and can afford some mobility and plenty of sex encounters.

A friend of mine in Namibia owns a small manufacturing business. Aids has negatively effected his ability to keep trained employees. His talented wage earners are amongst the first to die off, leaving a lot of old people and kids. Also shrinks the number of people that can help grow the economy.

Is there any informed speculation about how this will end? Will the continent really become depopulated of blacks? If not, what will happen instead?

Before going to Namibia in June, I looked up to official HIV/AIDS rate: 27%. Of all the people I asked about this, only 1 ex-nurse thought the number might be anywhere close to correct.

There was a PAC hunter with his hounds staying at the first farm I was at. His boss, an old school Boer in the Free State, had rounded up all his farm workers and had them tested. 68/68 were HIV+. Now the tracker the PAC hunter worked with was also HIV+ (and in Namibia illegally). The PAC hunter and his tracker were quite a pair. First off, what sort of mental midget would willingly and knowingly spend his nights running through the thorn bushes after things that bite with some one he knows is HIV+? As for the tracker, he knew full well what HIV meant, but still got into trouble for sniffing around the farm hands' wives while the men were out working.

Our fire side conversations were very interesting at that farm.

Dean

This is a very tough issue indeed. Through my profession I have been on the forefront of the AIDS epidemic in the States since the mid-eighties. It is amazing how much is known about the illness, its origins, etc. and yet there is still new information being learned every year. I fear there will be no dignity for the infected - yes it is undeniably a death sentence and will be for many years. While the death is horrendous and as uncaring as the position seems, I'm reluctant to advocate prolonging the infected's life unless life-style is changed as well. As long as there is "a different boyfriend or girlfriend every weekend" the infection rate will continue to increase. Too bad and I'm NOT ADVOCATING letting these unfortunate people suffer and die but simply put, if they're too sick to have sex they are not spreading it. Changing centuries old traditions, especially among people who live with so little already is unlikely though. I to, as anyone who's been to southern Africa over the past fifteen years, have known it's victoms. Just watched "The Constant Gardner" several nights ago and while it's a dramatization it's not all that far removed from the atrocity of AIDS policy in Africa perpetuated by the entire world. I don't see any answer in sight.

You had better assume that everybody you meet in Africa is HIV positive. This may not be true, but it is the only prudent course.

Puts a point on avoiding thorns and scrapes, don't it?

I've heard that almost every black I met in RSA in 2003 is either dead or too sick to work. I say "almost", but I don't know of an exception.

I have read that rape victims in Africa have an 80% chance of catching AIDS. I will never take a woman to Africa!

One question then, Why dont we see the same thing here in the US or in the EU. Places like Amsterdam, London, or even New York or LA. We all now that multiple partners is the problem. And beleive me that sex here in the US is happening between younger kids than when I grew up. And its happening every weekend. Is it just an issue of using protection? If it is, maybe I should take about 100 condoms with me and hand them out to the camp staff or is that not ethical or disrespectful to the PH? AIDS is a very disturbing why to die.

As I tell my students, Mother Nature is a Mutha! People learn or they die; this has been a fact of life since life began on this planet. Its cruel and seems unfair, but Life Aint Fair. Until people are willing to learn, disease will continue to take its toll on our population.
As an aside, water is becoming the most valuable commodity in many nations. Without water, food cannot be grown and sanitation is difficult. Recent stories in newspapers have gone unheeded. We'll see either starvation or aids reduce those populations unwilling to learn.

The west doesn't have the same problem because the West engages in more natural sex -- most of Africa has a "dry sex" ideal, which causes tears inside the woman, and leads to a small amount of blood with almost all intercourse -- same reason why anal sex has such a high rate of transmission -- there's, relatively, very few viruses inside the sexual fluids, or the mucus linings.

The only way to address it is behavioral change -- a vaccine is great in theory, but as rapidly mutating as the little %^&$ is, I'd never let myself be injected with a vaccine for it, and I'd certainly never rely on it. Trying to get hardly educated, primitive people with limited medical monitoring, etc to follow a drug regimen is a fairy tale.

Black Africa is essentially dead. The really scary idea is an entire continent where the parents are sick, and the grand parents are dead -- i.e. only youths left alive, and faced w. a high likelihood of an early, and unpleasant death.

Around 800 AD the Catholic Church used a similar situation, and the idea of divine kingship, in Europe to promote the idea of monagamous marriage -- starting with the children of Charlemagne (he was not monagamous himself) -- and Christianity.

Unfortunately, it was divine kingship that really converted the pagans, or at least their rulers, and not the benefits of monagamy.

quote:

Black Africa is essentially dead.

Aids is, and will continue to take a heavy toll on the blacks of Africa. But there are two groups of Africans who will survive; those who have embraced the message of Aids prevention, and those who devoutly follow a western religion that preaches the ten comandments.

I am no fan of organised religion, but I after visiting a SDA service a couple of trips ago and talking to some of the church members I have no doubt that many are being saved as the church erases their traditional values.

I know that many on this forum don't believe that Africans have the ability to change. But I will tell you that what I saw and heard gave me hope.

Jason

Not wanting to be too dismissive of AIDs deaths, from my understanding TB & Malaria proberly individually account for more deaths in so called black africa than Aids does.

Basically the problem with Aids can never be solved in our liftime or in the next 2 to 3 decades in Africa. It will take a MIRACLE to solve it and I personally dont rely on MIRACLES so the future is really quite gloomy to be frank

Education can go some way to slowing it down maybe !!! but I am pessimistic

Peter

Jason,

As you, I am not a big fan of organised religion. And I would agree that some Africans have the ability to change. And I've met and had to do with my fair share of genuinly educated and enlightend Africans myself in various countries. People that I doubt will end up with HIV/AIDS. And interestingly enough, most of these people were devout Christians.

However, it seems to me that it that over all, it was very few that took Christianity to such a level that it genuinly changed their lives permenantly. From what we were told by many missionaries that we happened to meet in various coutrries throughout Africa, was that most of their converts slipped back and forth between Christianity, Islam and traditional beliefs (depending on which region of Africa). Very very few had become permenant, true, life long Christians according to their statistics. One of the "problems" for example in north/west Africa as they saw it, was that Islam was throwing huge amounts of money into the local mosques in order to convert people to Islam. This was (is) being financed by Libya and various other Islamic nations. And I mean so much money that the Christian missionaries couldn't even come close. The thing is that the locals simply were attracted the most by whichever religion appeared to be most wealthy. And sadly, if a Muslim by chance was converted to Christianity, the person would be litterally kicked out of his family and society until he converted back to Islam... In southern Africa, it seemed that many people converted to Christianity, but when faced with some kind of problem, they'd go to the local "witch doctor" anyway, and fall back to their traditional beliefs...

As for those who genuinly embrace the message of HIV/AIDS prevention, it has seemed to me that they are few and far between. All the roadside signs, puppet theatres, and other various anti-HIV/AIDS shows that are preformed in many parts of rural Africa might help a small percentage, but I doubt that it really effects as many as one might wish.

One interesting thing that I read about the other day in the newspaper was that male circumcision appears to lessen the risk of HIV/AIDS transmission. It seems that circumcised men basically have an easier time keeping their penis clean, and thus don't give viruses (and bacteria) a place to "hide" after having sex. And that this is one of the reasons that areas where circumcision is common has lower HIV/AIDS rates then elsewhere in Africa where circumcision isn't common. And it's the least common in southern Africa, where the HIV/AIDS rate is the highest. Some might then say that areas where circumcision are common are predominently Muslim, and that sexual monogamy due to religion is the cause for the low percentage, but I can guarantee you that north/west Africans screw around just as much as east/southern Africans.

All in all when it comes to HIV/AIDS, it appears that Africa is f#cked. Both literally and figuratively...

In RSA a lot of the young boys goes to an initiation schoolwhere they are circumsized. Usually not in the most higene way. Quite a lot of deaths occur due to infection. This is mostly practised in the rural areas. As far as I know most ethnic groups have initiations.

Most Aids deaths are due to TB or lung infections. Ussually you do not die of aids, your immune system is to weak to fight of diseases and then TB and lung infections take over.

Hate to say it but perhaps this is nature's way of taking care of things. Just as rabies, fire, anthrax take care of the animal kingdom.

As for the politicians in RSA, you could believe one of two things (and I don't see any third possibility:

1. You get the government you deserve. (You being the majority).
2. Democracy is not the universally ideal form of government, rather it only works in countries with an educated populace and a large middle class.

Take your pick.

I tend to agree with Russ, it just proves we are a part of nature and subject to the same checks that slows the growth of populations of deer, rabbits, foxes, etc. Nonetheless, a good portion of the problems in Africa are directly caused by the government, just as they are in the USA, mostly problem producers, not solvers.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:


I have read that rape victims in Africa have an 80% chance of catching AIDS. I will never take a woman to Africa!

Don,

FWIW, I would generally have to disagree with this statement. In most of Africa at least. The only place I see this as a real potential threat would be in some larger cities, and in RSA. Chances of a white tourist woman getting raped in most of the rest of Africa is pretty slim IMO. As long as she doesn't wander the streets at night alone or do other stupid things of course.

I aggree with the logic above Erik!

For what its worth, after the Toronto conf. our Independent Democrats leader Patricia de Lille is calling for Manto (health minister) to be sacked immediately....I second that, she is a clown!

Doesn't seem to be limited to rural areas / citizens.



Mugabe's guards shun condoms
Zim Standard

BY WALTER MARWIZI

THE Presidential Guard, a specialised army unit charged with
protecting President Robert Mugabe, has been hit by an outbreak of Sexually
Transmitted Infections (STIs), The Standard can reveal.

STIs common in Zimbabwe include gonorrhoea and syphilis, which,
if left untreated, can cause mental disorders.

The outbreak occurs at a time when the Ministry of Health and
Child Welfare, aid agencies and non-governmental organisations have
conducted sustained HIV/AIDS campaigns aimed at discouraging people from
indulging in unprotected sex.

Thanks to these campaigns, a marked decline has been recorded in
STIs and HIV/AIDS cases countrywide as many people abstain, stick to their
partners or use condoms whenever they have sex.

But this isn't the case in the elite unit based in Harare which
is required to be fit all the time in order to offer maximum protection to
Mugabe.

Sources told The Standard many soldiers in the unit were
shunning condoms, resulting in the disturbing rise in cases of STIs.
So serious is the problem that it featured at a top level
meeting of the Medical Directorate held on 17 July at the Army Headquarters
in Harare.

Colonel C T Basera, the Director of Medical Services, chaired
the meeting which came up with strategies to contain the rise in STIs.

Sources said the meeting was informed the problem was getting
out of hand as cases of STIs kept rising.

Basera directed that a scientific investigation be conducted.

Stressing the urgency of the matter, sources said the
directorate tasked an army medical doctor with collecting relevant data
urgently for the investigations.

Basera could not be reached for comment yesterday but Lieutenant
Colonel Simon Tsatsi, the army spokesperson, said he was not aware of the
matter.

"You don't expect me to know that. The medical condition of a
person is confidential unless you confirm with a doctor. Even ethics for
medical practitioners show this is confidential," Tsatsi said.

"You had better assume that everybody you meet in Africa is HIV positive. This may not be true, but it is the only prudent course..."

This statement is what is known in the health-care, public safety and other professions regualrly dealing with sick or injured people as "UNIVERSAL PRECAUTIONS." It's observation should not be restricted to Africa but anywhere in the world you come into contact with another person's body fluids or secretions! Its why your dentist wears gloves & a mask never seen twenty years ago.