I just photographed two of Mike Bradys expanded solids, now this is a Buffalo bullet or I'll eat my hat...It is called the cup point and he also makes a flat nose standard solid the has 30% more penitration..but the cup point should be more than enough penitration for any of the big beast...

I have the ability to send the photos to someone if they have the ability to post them on this board, I'm not there yet..Just got my new digital camera and am in the learning stage....

These are very inovative bullets and may be a new trend in bullet construction of the future. I have high hopes for Mike Brady and his future in bullet making...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, I'm excited about this bullet, especially seeing how difficult it is to get Gerard's bullets (I ordered some 5 months ago and have received nothing). Do you know what calibers and weights he will produce yet?

I think they will be in 416 and 375 for sure, not sure about anything else..they are an exciting bullet..

Mike sent me some to try for feeding in my 416 and 375..I'll keep you posted

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, something is not working with Hunting-Pictures.com, it isn't letting me post photos, it worked fine 3 days ago. Several others are having trouble also with Hunting-Photos. So, if anyone else is using a photo server other than Hunting-Pictures.com, please volunteer to post the bullet photos for Ray. Thanks!

Mike sent me some .475s for my .470 Capstick.

I'll update folks, as well.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Ray,

I can post the pictures if you'll email them to me.

Cannon
cwatts@palmnet.tv

do they make 458's ?

I can post the photos by hosting them on my site if John or Ray wants to send them to me.

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Wendell Reich
Hunter's Quest International

Ray,

You could put the photos up on your web site, and then either post the link here or do the routine that makes the .jpg visible in the post.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Does Northfork have a web site?

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RC

Hunter Jim,
I don't do my web site...I'll send the photos to Cannon.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Here you go, Ray . . .

The Northfork Cup Point:

Expanded cup points:

Northfork flat nose solids:

[This message has been edited by Cannon (edited 03-20-2002).]

Have to agree with Ray. These look like just what the doctor ordered for buffalo.

Questions:

Are these monometal copper or bronze?

Is the nose/meplat actually concave?

Are those driving bands or cannelures along the shank? The focus is a bit off on some, but they seem to be only four bands and a bore riding shank?

Interesting, especially if delivery is less than six months.

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RAB

RAB,
the nose is actually almost a hollow point, kinda of a saucer type nose and as you can see limited but definate expansion...

I am not sure of the mix but it is definatly a monolithic bullet..

There is one band on the edge of the base, then about a 60 thousand gap and another band, then another 60 thousand gap and two bans 90 thousands apart with is also a crimping groove....

The bullet is simply driving on 4 very shallow bands. The base band appears to be the secret of this bullt.

I believe it could have a cutting shoulder band and less flatness to create a better feeding bullet, but I'll leave that up to Jim Brady.

It will be interresting to see how they shoot with such a small amount of contact on the rifleing..The sure won't build up much pressure...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

They look like they possess the BC of a frying pan. Of course that would be a high velocity frying pan at 40 yards. Watch out buff....

Some faster than expected powders may be required. I like the look of them.

Ray, contrary to Elmer's long cherished belief, on a broad nosed bullet like that a "cutting shoulder" will not be in contact with the tissue at all during penetration. This was definitively proved by Veral Smith.

Mike Brady wrote me about these bullets last week and I have been eager for a look. Thanks for the posting (even though you guys made me stand upside down in my chair!).

Harold,
Why not??? that was a big push with RWS on their wonderfull Tig and tug bullets and it has been well excepted that they cut a cookie cutter on entrance much like a wad cutter would according to reports in African journals...

I grant you that I accepted the fact based on nothing more than reports that I have read by hunters and PH's in journals...

I am very interrested in your reply as I recently discussed this with another balistician that stated the cutter hole was caused by the flat point not the cutting shoulder...Of concern on this issue is why the Barnes monolithic solid with round nose and cutting shoulder cuts such a nice cookie, or so I have been told.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

TO ALL,
I am very pleased to say that my group and I have been working with Mike on the development of these bullets. Today I sent back the .416's that we worked on last night. We are looking at feeding at this time.

This W/E I will shoot some of the first that he sent. They arn't the latest nose design and wouldn't feed from the magazine. He is trying to keep the nose as wide as possible. The ones that we worked on last night were not to be shot.
I will single load the first run of bullets and check for accuracy. So far my RUGER is shooting a tad over 1/2", 5 shot groups at 100 yrds. with the scope set on 4X.

The ribbed part of the bullet will remain essentially the same.

We have been using his soft points at RAY's suggestion. The accuracy and LACK of fouling is OUTSTANDING. We are supposed to get the .375's by FRI. and we will work on them.

He will be producing a .458 and TYE will try them in is LOTT. We are not receiving any compensation for this so our comments are strictly above board and open. However, the excitement of being "IN" on the development of this bullet is payment enough!

I will keep everyone advised on the results. Hopefully the African/big bore hunters/shooters will support Mike. Try some of his 'softs', you'll like them.
Cheers,
Sam Clemmons
Lenoir, N.C.

Ray, the main difference is that shooting bullets in very thin dry paper (or any non-fluid material) you don't get any splash effect off the nose, so the shoulder probably does cut the hole. In tissue the splash effect means that nothing behind the nose will be in contact with tissue.

Now, with a bullet like the TUG, which has a short and very steeply pointed rather than flat nose, I don't know. Maybe there the shoulder does cut the skin and hair. As far as that goes, any shouldered bullet on entrance will probably cut its full cross-sectional diameter through hair or skin because these don't splash either. But it won't do that on the inside.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BIG SAM:
Hi BIG SAM,
Do they make this bullet in .475 caliber 500 grain. I'm getting things together to do some test comparing solids. So far I have the Barnes solids, Woodleigh solids and the GS custom solids in both 500 and 560 grain. It would sure be interesting to be able to compare Mikes bullet design with the others and especially the 500 grain GS custom solid.

470 Mbogo

470 Mbogo, SAm, and all,

Yes, Mike is going to produce the bullet in 9.3, 411, 375, 416, 458, 475....

Yesterday I tried several 416 flat nose in various sizes for Mike and my M-70 fed the bullet marked T-5 like poop through a goose..The others sent did not feed from the left side of the magazine and they all fed from the right side which is a puzzlement to me as it should have been the opposite.

Bullet makers live among grimmlins.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray and Sam,

What were the bullets shot into to test them?

Water, wet newspaper, or a critter?

If you need to test these guys would strongly recommend you use 5 gallon nylon water buckets available from Home Depot. They also sell matching lids which lets you evaluate temporary cavity.

A well expanded high vel bullet will split bucket in two on first bucket.

Use 5-6 buckets per bullet for these guys.

The 458 Barnes X will go 3-5 depending on caliber.

416 400 gr swifts come out almost exactly like George Hoffmans collection from buffalo. Similar retained weight and diameter.

Andy

This is not a projectile for buffalo but one for "soft skin" vehicles!

Doug

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NRA Life member

Ray, Do you think these solids expand too much to be used on elephant?

My group have not done penetration as of yet. Mike did it and reported the following.
His test medium is ballistic gel.

The .416 softs go 23-25"; the cupped solids go 28-29"; the flat solids hit the back of the pan and dented it at 36"!:EEK:
All were shot through 1/4" soaked leather before it hit the gel.
RAY has reported that of his clients that have used the softs,only end to end shots have provided a recoverable bullet on BUFF.
We don't have the gel and were wondering what to use to compare other solids with. His testing is sound, but we still like to 'play' and appreciate the idea.

Hope that his statistics help. I am not aware of his mix ratio for the gel. I'll see what I can do.

All the best,
SAM

Andy,
I don't know what medium was used..Brady sent the expanded bullets to me..

John,
I don't think I would use them on elephant, I'll wait until someone else does that and then make a decision I will stick with solids on elephant...I will use them on Buffalo one of these days.

I believe this Cup Point bullet just screams "BUFFALO"..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, I have an elephant hunt coming up in late July (with Calitz). It would be interesting to try some of these on a dead elephant(assuming I get one!). I could test both head shots and body shots. I may be able to get one buffalo as well. I'll be using a 450 Dakota. Do you know when these bullets will become available?

Sam,

Check the protocol for mixing Kind and Knox gelatin.

Youre penetration is off by about 100%.

If you mix too much or too cold temperature, you will effect performance by factor of two.

Apply for memberhsip in International Wound Ballistic Association (IWBA), and get their video and data on preparing gelatign to IWBA standards.

It is calibrated to hip of pig, but must be prepared at 10% and correct temperature.

You can calibrate youre mixture with a BB at 590 fps from air rifle (85mm penetration I think).

This is science not guess work.

Andy

ANDY,
As I reported, the test was done by MIKE and I don't have any of the gellitin info.

I will look into the Association that you've mentioned. Many thanks.

SAM

Apparantly there has been some snickering and rolling in the floor laughing their dumb a$$es off over my newly aquired skills with the camera, so you tribal members can kiss ole spot cuz I am now ging to read the bloody Operations manual...I can read it in English and Spanish, so there!

When all else fails, read the directions is my motto, but only as a last resort. Kinda like in Dallas when I drove around three hours because I didn't need to ask how to get to SCI..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

HI,

How about a .423,404J maybe you can let them hear about that MR.Atkinson,kev

I certainly second that motion! And Ray should too, as a devoted .404 man.

Sarge

While we are at it, why can't we 404 fans, since there is now another factory round (404 Dakota), talk swift into a .423 A-Frame???????????
I have been on his ass at every turn to produce the bullet and he wont. I think it and the cup point would make a hell of a pair to draw to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lb404

HI,

You are right as rain,Thanks,Kev

Hello, Ray, and All, I just returned late yesterday and can see that nothing has changed. Still talking about gunny things. I am sure I have missed out on a world of information in the last two months.
Ray, I think that I have managed to spend a whole .416 Hoffman on this trip, I hope it was worth it. I would hate to get ripped off
on this deal.
George

HI,

MR. Atkinson is one of a very few people who has hunted every where. He has know things that few people will ever know and has forgetten more than most will know. I am just happy that there are men like him still around. Ever time I have asked him for advise or help he has help me and that specks a lot for the kind of man he is. I know this has nothing to do on the subject, but I think if there is someone out there that has help so many people to learn more about hunting and shooting they should get recognition for there efforts. Thank, Kev

Kev,
Thank you and I appreciate that, and I do like to help anyone I can, if I can but I am not the last word in all these things and there are some others on this board that have experience beyond mine....

George,
If it works, it was the best gun trade you will ever make...and I bet your standing at my table in Dallas next year signing a thousand books. I sure do like my new bookmarker!! Thanks.

Harold,
I agree with you to a point, I think... I do believe the cutting shoulder cuts a cookie cutter hole in the skin based on my inspection of shot Buffalo.. I agree it has no effect other than that as far as terminal damage..but that is the big advantage, that perfectly round hole that does not close up releases a LOT of blood..A round nose solid will close up 50% or more of the time..the difference in blood trails is obvious to me and these big black and ugly critters don't quit until they run out of juice

John DL,
I, personally wouldn't use the cup point on elephant. Mike is sending someone some solids to see what they will do on dead elephant, probably you????