In one of the theads a guest asked what's the difference between an Agent and an Outfitter ...

Just to expand & explain in brief detail the main options a hunter might have to book a hunt in Africa, and where the hunt might be conducted, in no specific order of preferance ...

1) Private Ranch - owner/operator : My brother (Alan Bird) he does not book hunts but provides the hunting area, the PH, and uses myself to book the hunts for Balla-Balla Safaris

2) Private Booking Consultant: Myself (Peter Bird) operating FULL TIME from home to book exclusively and ONLY for Balla-Balla Safaris. I work independantly BUT liase directly with my brother the RANCH owner as we BOTH have a common goal to meet each hunters specific needs

3) Booking Agent/Consultant: They can be part of full time, own the Agency or Company and MOSTLY book for multiple Ranch Owners, Companies, Outfitters or even at times for individual PH's.

4) Outfitter : Generally they are the organiser of the actual hunt perse, they can often be the PH himself or the Ranch or Concession owner. In a nutshell once a hunt is booked the Outfitter will get the logistics to fall into place, and the PH will guide the client

5) The PH: Some PH's work independantly for Ranch Owners, Outfitters, Concession Owners, or totally by themselves if they are a ONE MAN BAND. Often a PH will have a secondary job unless he is fortunate enough to make enough money from hunting & guiding

6) Concession Owner: They can be anybody ( within reason ) whom has bid and been granted a concession licence, often the licences are issued annually, sometime for longer indertimanate periods of time. It depends which country the hunting licences are issued in and whom controls hunting in that state or province

7) Foreign Hunters themselves: Occasionally a hunter whom has been to Africa loved the operation then gets into bed with that Comapny or Oufitter and he will semi quasi BOOK a hunt for another hunter, there is nothing wrong with that provided his motives are right and he has a genuine wish to arrange a bona fide hunt, and not to line the pockets of anybody. Often these can be very good referrals. Many hunters become lifelong friends of Operators with whom they have hunted, some become partners and the bond of hunting brotherhood strengthens to the advantage of the industry as a whole

Those are the main categories of operation.

A hunter therefore has a range of options to pursue to book a hunt.

Essentially every hunting opertor has to run his business as a commercial operation and make a profit ( unless he is Rockafella ) so dont be fooled by those telling you this and that about no commissions. At the end of the day whether an Agent get paid direct from the Outfitter/Ranch owner or whomever he has to get paid so either the commision is built into the hunt price or in some isolated cases added on. So dont get tooo hung up on whom and how commission gets paid, just use the tried and trusted out there and look for a fair price for a good hunt.

Of cource different operators and comapanies in individual countries have different overheads and fall into different categories regards payment of fees and licences to the government and or wildlife agencies, DONT let that concern you.

Your concern as mentioned is to look for a GOOD OPERATOR whomever it might be who will provide you what you want for a fair price, remembering that the CHEAPEST is not always best, and nor is the MOST EXPENSIVE always the best ...

WE all live in a buyer beware world and generally speaking you will get what you pay for within reason ... Caveat ( Amazing bargain prices ) are just that, Amazing but not necessarily a bargin. To me they send out a warning flag, be careful is my advice as often there is an underlying and not always beneficial reason for the (super cheap prices) but as always, there are exceptions to the rule

Hope the summary has some merit and might help those uninformed on the mechanics of Hunting in Africa. It is only a brief overview and there are exceptions to the rule and other scenarious as well

Well said, thanks.

What type of client usually books through a booking Agent as opposed to directly with the Outfitter/PH ?

What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of using an Agent vs. Outfitter?

I often am concerned too that an Agent might not have direct experience with the animals or hunts that you are looking for, but still book those types of hunts. How does an Agent usually deal with a booking when they might not have that experience? Any red flags to watch out for?

My first safari was booked through COL Bill Williams, an agent. The hunt was through Leopard Ridge and it was quite satisfactory. My second I booked through the Outfitter personally at Reno with Bahati and it was fully satisfactory. My third was a repeat with Bahati and an extension I booked personally with Nomad at Reno and it was a complete ball. I like going to Reno.

Peter,

May I copy your post and add it to the Tips and Packing List post on the Hunting Reports -Africa Forum?

Regards,

Terry

Terry

No problem at all, just remember I rattled it off straight from the (top of my head) as it came to me and without any PRIOR preparation so it is NOT very professional.

It is just a quick overview for those whom are new to Africa hunting to help them understand better, just bear that in mind andtidy up where required as you see fit

Regards, Peter

Peter:
I'm the guy who asked the original question. After reading your explanation, I have a better idea how it works. I think the confusion on my part, comes from the fact that in Alaska,
an Agent is the person who advertises and is in direct contact with the hunter to arrange the hunt,
an Outfitter supplies equipment needed for the hunt,
A PH/Guide is the guy in the bush who does the dirty work.
I've never used an Agent or Outfitter. I consider them the "middle man." I deal directly with the PH/Guide. If you have the time and inclination to do the research, the direct to PH/Guide works fine. If you don't have the time/inclination to do the research, an Agent/Outfitter is the way to go.
Also, I don't understand how you can "book a hunt" through an Outfitter/Agent for the same price you can book a hunt directly with the PH/Guide?
Are the Outfitter/Agents doing this for nothing? I doubt it.
The PH/Guide has to raise his prices to cover the extra expense of paying the Agent/Outfitter.
Or, he can discount the price for the Agent/Outfitter, because of the increase in hunter traffic.
Thanks.

TJ

I understand your thinking, no problem at all. As I said the price/commision is either built in or added on in most instances in Africa, no free lunches ...

But essentially the world has middlemen in most industries and it is NOT always a dirty word.

For the average Jo whom buys a vehicle he does not buy it DIRECT from the salesman, the salesman sells it to him on behalf of the Company.

If someone has connections then things can change, but in the main we all need some cut along the line to survive.

Freedom of choice to purchase from whom we choose is the name of the game, just ALWAYS remember what I said BUYER BEWARE regardless of whom one books through, Indirect or Direct

Peter

Peter,

You missed the category that cause all of us the most headaches and is the least trustworthy. It's the guy who comes to Africa a a few times (sometimes just once) and then goes home considering he's an instant expert and sets up a website claiming to be an agent or consultant etc. They talk nonsense to the clients, don't know anything about the industry, the animals or the areas and all they manage to do is cause confusion at best and ruin hunts at worst......

We don't use agents much, but as an example of these amateurs, we had an "agent" contact us a while ago who told us he had some clients who wanted to hunt Thompson's & Grant's Gazelles and he had told them we could give them this hunt in South Africa..........When we told him they don't occur in SA and we had no interest in in doing business with him I guess he went and wasted someone else's time.

If someone doesn't even know which species occur in what countries, how can they possibly be trusted to have a hand in planning someone's trip of a lifetime!

These are the guys that hunters need to avoid at all costs.........and sometimes it's not easy to tell the good from the bad. All anyone needs to do to become one of these cowboys is to set up a website with a few pretty pictures and a bit of purple prose and sooner or later some poor mug will come along to have their hunt ruined.

There is one thing you need to know about booking agents. In many states consumer protection laws view the contract as being between the client and the agent, not the outfitter.

In WA a client is eligible for triple damages if the hunts is deliberately misrepresented by the agent. If the hunt does not go as specified in the contract the agent is financially responsible. This is protection you will not get from an overseas outfitter.

Try suing sombody in a Namibian Court sometime.

As we don't place much faith in agents, we always have a contract between us and the client himself so that the client knows exactly what he's getting for his money, but many safari companies don't do this.

I guess I should say that a good agent is fine so I'm not condemning them all.......just the fly by nights and instant experts. This forum actually numbers a few excellent & highly professional agents (who don't represent us, so I don't have an axe to grind!)......but I'm sure many members will have seen how a few other people have set up an "instant expert agency"

My old friend Ian Goss talks of how some safari companies/agents etc sell the sizzle and not the steak.........and I think that many people are sadly attracted to the sizzle of phrases like "glowing sunsets" and "heart stopping moments" rather than the steak of detailed and accurate information.

I remember one of the resident agents say 20 year ago (or whenever he started) he sold 1 or 2 hunts each year.

Guess everyone has to start somewhere.

Maybe the smaller guys also have a more intimate knowledge of their client outfitters. Rather than dealing with 50 and forgetting who is who, may having one or three is a much better deal. Certainly someone like Peter Bird with only one outfitter should know the outfitters ins and outs (of his family ).

quote:

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Originally posted by shakari:
Peter,

You missed the category that cause all of us the most headaches and is the least trustworthy. It's the guy who comes to Africa a a few times (sometimes just once) and then goes home considering he's an instant expert and sets up a website claiming to be an agent or consultant etc. They talk nonsense to the clients, don't know anything about the industry, the animals or the areas and all they manage to do is cause confusion at best and ruin hunts at worst......

We don't use agents much, but as an example of these amateurs, we had an "agent" contact us a while ago who told us he had some clients who wanted to hunt Thompson's & Grant's Gazelles and he had told them we could give them this hunt in South Africa..........When we told him they don't occur in SA and we had no interest in in doing business with him I guess he went and wasted someone else's time.

If someone doesn't even know which species occur in what countries, how can they possibly be trusted to have a hand in planning someone's trip of a lifetime!

These are the guys that hunters need to avoid at all costs.........and sometimes it's not easy to tell the good from the bad. All anyone needs to do to become one of these cowboys is to set up a website with a few pretty pictures and a bit of purple prose and sooner or later some poor mug will come along to have their hunt ruined.

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I couldn't agree more. Theese people make things very difficult for a first time hunter in Africa. It's very hard not to view them as pimps or at best a blight on the butt of those who are running a honest house. As a newbie to Africa I can say ultimately I feel pretty damned lost trying to figure out who will be the best to use for what I want and adding a bunch to the group who may harm more than help makes things difficult at best.

I can't say I have seen anything bad posted on A-R concerning any of the "regular" agents.

Ann

That is because one if not two have quietly disappeared somewhere into the "Blue Sky".

Funny how he never bothered to answer any of the several pages of posts in that thread/

Was thar a "regular" agent or a agents agent or a secret agent ?

My post wasn't meant as a criticism of any particular person or agency and there are some very professional agents who post here.......but I've also seen posts on various forums where guys say they've just come back from their first (ish) African safari and are now agents for someone or other. A week or two later there's suddenly a website with the guy's name on it selling lots of sizzle but precious little (if any) steak.

It's actually about time a properly policed organisation was established to control the entire indusry and weed out the fly by nights, half assed operators and crooks.

This is a tough industry to succeed in (especially in the present financial and political climate) and when I see how hard we work to produce a really great product and how much harder some of these second raters make it I get more than a little ticked off....frankly some of them deserve to be tied to a tree for Leopard bait.

Nope, disagree.
How many times do I have to go to Africa and hunt with the people I will represent, before I will be considered to be viable Agent, if I so choose?
A person who has been to Africa once, could be an excellent Agent for the outfit he hunted with.
If he was happy with the hunt, and is willing to spend the time to shill the hunt, and tell the truth how it went, I say go for it.

This is not a personal criticism of any individual or agent etc, but If someone with little or no experience in Africa and African hunting starts trying to sell African hunting, how can they possibly give sensible, informed advice on such things as:-

Current firearms import/export requirements (which sometimes change weekly)

Weather changes at different times of year

Transportation requirements including good or bad road, rail and air charter companies etc

CITES & other export requirements

Species & quota availability

Changing political situations

Health situations & requirements

Game laws

Visa requirements

Whether is one area is better than another for a certain species or a particular clients needs tastes or finances.

Moving between different areas or countries etc.

These are just a few of the many problems that can occur on a safari and a good company (whether outfitter or agent) will have all the answers and the ability to ensure the client has a hassle free trip ......a bad company can and probably will just allow a clients trip to be ruined. Mostly through ignorance.

Here is just a very short list of some OTHER COMPANIES stuff ups & cons that I've heard of in the last 12 months or so. ……..and there are plenty more!

I stress it's other companies and nothing to do with my company!!!

One client was told by his agent that his DG hunt began at JIA when in fact the outfitter was expecting to collect him at Richards Bay which is a 5 or 6 hour drive away. Had the client not found out the day before he left he would have waited at JIA and then been forced to fly home without the hunt.

Hunters booking what they were told was a wild Lion hunt, which was in fact a canned Lion hunt.

Another client flew into JIA with a .454 Casull and was thrown in jail for 12 hours and charged with attempting to import an illegal firearm. The cops gave him a choice of flying home immediately or having the firearm destroyed and then going back to jail to face the charges (work that one out!)......needless to say he was on the next flight home.

2 occasions where different clients paid for Elephant hunts (with 2 different companies) and when they got to their African airport of destination the company had taken their money and ran......so they had to fly home again.

Numerous clients getting conned (in a variety of ways) on Leopard hunts, these include frozen leopards, tame leopards, hunting without a leopard licence and the landowners sending someone along to take a leak on the bait trees to ensure that no leopard will come near…. so that the same leopard licence can be sold repeatedly.

Clients booking hunts for a particular species and when they arrive in camp are told the species does not occur in the area or region.

Hunters being run off of the hunting area and camp by so called "warvets"

Hunters not being granted export licences for their trophies because they hunted with a PH who was not properly licenced in that particular location.

Hunters not being granted export licences for their trophies because the outfitter hadn’t organised the proper licences and permits beforehand.

Hunters being sold a hunt in one area and then the actual hunt taking place is a much worse area or camp.

Clients being told the charter price was per aircraft and then being charged the quoted amount per person.

Clients being led to believe their package price included charter costs and then being told it does not and they have to pay for the charter in addition.

Good PHs being changed for less experienced or well known guys at the last moment……sometimes the client only finds this out once he’s in camp.

The list is endless and these are just a few of the things that can go wrong if the client chooses to book with the wrong company. If he books with a knowledgeable and reputable company then it all goes smoothly and the client has no problems. Hunting is always hunting and success can never be absolutely guaranteed, but the chances of a successful safari drop dramatically when these inexperienced and half-assed outfits get involved.

Another point might be what criteria can someone like this use to judge quality? Sure they might have had a good hunt, (hell it’s difficult not to in Africa!) but if they haven’t had any experience of other venues how can they possibly tell good from bad or good from really good? We recently had a client hunt with us in the Tuli Block of Botswana. He had twice hunted with a different company in the Northern Cape RSA………and he told us after the hunt that he had thought he’d had good hunts there, but he had no idea of how good an African safari could be until he hunted with us………….That probably sounds like a sales pitch and it’s not meant to. It’s just meant to show by example that if you don’t have a wide experience of African hunting how can you ever comment on quality……. It’s like someone who has only hunted in one African country advising people it’s the best place in Africa………how the hell would he know, he’s never been anywhere else.

I wonder why anyone who has little or no experience in Africa or the African hunting industry should be dumb enough to consider themselves qualified to arrange, advise on and/or offer safaris costing many thousands of dollars to the general public. Or to put it another way, should (for example) someone without any mechanical experience or knowledge be allowed to work on your car or plane? Should someone with little or no medical knowledge be allowed to work as a GP or nurse or surgeon?......I think not.

If you were just booking an ordinary overseas package holiday, would you book it with some know- nothing with a cell phone or would you go to a properly trained & reputable travel agent?

so why put your faith. Sometimes your fate and a considerable amount your money in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing when you're booking an African safari?

I don’t think it matters how rich or poor any client is. Anyone spending the sort of money an African hunting safari costs, deserves the very best in customer service and product and I don’t believe it’s possible for someone who doesn’t have an intimate knowledge of Africa and African hunting to deliver that level of service. I’m not saying hunters should not book with an agent……….it’s up to them, but I am saying that if they do, they should only go to an experienced operator who can do his job properly………..to do otherwise is just inviting disaster.

Well said Steve,

Way too many "briefcase" agents, outfitters and ph's in this industry.

This topic really hits home for me. I love Africa. I am not anywhere near an expert regarding the actual act of hunting game other than the obvious things. However, I have planned six safaris for four people in different combinations. When I say planned, I mean down to helping with packing lists, arranging travel, getting passports & visas, travel insurance, customs in every country, licenses, permits, setting up doctor's appts and making sure everyone has the proper inoculations, etc., everything Steve listed, in addition to coordinating with the outfitter regarding what both understand is happening, how many animals are on quota, figuring trophy fees, taking care of the taxidermy (except hanging it!), and other things that I won't bother to list. I'm just one of those detail people. My user name actually comes from my reputation for being able to get anything done if given the opportunity.

I was never interested in being a "booking agent" because of the bad rep they get. However I am very interested in providing those services to hunters who either know where they want to go and want to work the animals around the place or vice versa. But I don't want to push one outfitter or another at them and it just stands to reason that if the hunter comes to me and says he's narrowed it down to three outfitters, if I have prior experience with one of them, even if I don't make a direct recommendation, I will still know more about how that company operates and so will be able to give more info, which could seem like steering the hunter. I don't mind researching outfitters and have done that in the past, but what I would really like to find a niche for is to help the hunter. I keep a folder with all my backup info and provide as much of the backup to hunter as he would like without it being "too much." If the hunter works for a living, there are just alot of details it is easy to either forget or blow-off because of the time constraint.

So, to make a long story short (ha!), I do have a company set up and can do probably three different levels of service. The problem is how a person would get paid for those services if they aren't a "booking agent." I really don't want to be a true travel agent, I just want to help guys and girls who want to take a literally life changing experience make the trip be all it can. Anyway, I think everyone's comments are very interesting and want to throw in my two cents. I've not posted it before but I have just a "front page" web site at www.gotogirldetailconsultants.com. It isn't anywhere near finished, but it is just something I've been kicking around.

Shannon

I personally do not know why it is so difficult for hunters and clients to figure out who is reputable and who knows what they are doing?

I think it is very simple, and if you follow some simple rules, it would not be hard to seperate the the wannabees and the real deal. The only people to really blame are the clients who do not do their homework and do book a safari with an "agent" who thinks they know what they are doing.

When considering a safari to Africa here are a few things to consider before booking a hunt with your agent.

1. Are they a licensed company in their state
2. Do they have an actual office? Any dedicated full time company will have a proper office.
3. Are they full time or part time? You do not want to deal with anyone part time, as you want someone that can be of help to you full time!
4. How long have they been in the business that they are trying to sell you on?
5. Are they originally from Africa or are they from the US.
6. How much actual hunting experience do they have? Would you book a hunt with someone who has only hunted a buffalo 1-10 times? Hunting in Africa is NOT like riding a bike for the first time.
7. Make sure you get a reference list and you do talk with some of the past, present and future clients. A future client that is booked can also tell you why they booked their hunt.
8. Are they professional in all matters?
9. Do they have proper brochures, advertisements, printed material
10. How much experience to they really have, and how much knowledge do they have.

I could go on and on, and it is really not hard to protect yourself from part time agents or booking a bad safari.

On the other hand as well though, the agent has to be working with a reputable outfitter for everything to work out. If the outfitter does not go through on their end, then it makes the agent look bad even though it is not the agents fault. So, there are many pieces that have to work together, but if you do your homework and book with a reputable agent, you chances are that you will have a great safari

I have zero experience in the safari business or the hunt planning business. I have an extreme amount of experience planning complex projects in remote places involving hundreds of people and lots of money (energy business).

On my first trip to RSA, I took on the role of booking agent for my family and 3 other families working directly with the outfitter. I handled the plane tickets, the endless questions, the firearms permits, the taxidermy issues, the shipping of trophies, site seeing in Port Elizabeth, etc. I had always fancied myself as learning the hunt/safari business then striking out on it as a type of retirement job.

No way now. I worked my butt off for my friends and got very little thanks for it. One set of friends ended up not being such good friends as they had a son who decided he did not like to hunt and prefered to sit in camp and read Harry Potter books. I got partly tagged with - he doesn't like what you set up.

Further, the return shipping costs were higher than originally estimated due to shipping every rock, bone, and hide back ( over double the originally estimated shipping weights). THey also did not like flying coach class for 18 hrs (I warned them on this). They did not want to use a meet and greet service as I was accustomed in my travels - so they stood in lines for about 1 to 1.5 hrs in Cape Town while packing a ton of luggage.

My conclusion was that with the money being spent on these trips - many Americans expect everything to go flawlessly and all animals to be world records. For that, you get "thanks" or "a fruit cake at Christmas".

All of this to say - you guys in the booking business can have it and all the glory that goes with it. I will use booking agents and let you guys deal with the outfitters, the customs people, the airline ticketers, etc. etc. You earn your money the hard way - you work for it.

Adam,

You're absolutely right, clients should be able to tell the difference between a quality service and the fly by night operators, but for some reason a suprisingly large number of (presumably intelligent and successful in their own fields) hunters seem to get caught out every year.........I guess a lot of them only look at the price rather than compare the price with the quality of the product........as I've said before, there's no such thing as a free lunch in Africa and it's usually worth spending a few dollars more for a far superior product.

Dogcat,

There's an awful lot of hunters get caught out on the buffer zone thing......I guess it's a good example of my post above.......it's easy to look at the prices of two seemingly comparable hunts one of which is maybe US$1500 cheaper than the other and assume that adjacent to the Selous means the same thing as inside the Selous.......and it doesn't.

quote:

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Originally posted by shakari:

It's actually about time a properly policed organisation was established to control the entire indusry and weed out the fly by nights, half assed operators and crooks.

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Bravo!

Sadly, SCI refuses to touch the issue. Is there a likely candidate?

It would need to be an organisation that doesn't accept hunting donations or accept money from the hunting industry, if it did, it wouldn't work. So that would make SCI the worst possible choice.