If you are not hunting elephants, is there a need to develop a load with solids? With the performance of the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, North Fork, and Swift bullets today, are solids needed for other species?

I would not put the Nosler in the same class as the other three bullets you mention, as the other three are better bullets, IMHO.

And although there are no flies on the other two of that threesome, I'd put the TSX at the top of the heap.

Given such a great expanding bullet, I would only feel the need to use solids if I were hunting elephant - or maybe for body shots on hippo (although the brain shot is a quicker killer for hippo and I much prefer it).

The TSX has become my choice for Cape buffalo, and has done the job very well.

The petals will shear off on a raking shot on a big bull, but that will still leave me with a hard driving, slightly mushroomed cylinder of copper alloy that will penetrate through the vitals.

Not that my statistical sample of shots taken on such game is all that large, but it's large enough for me!

I used strictly softs this year on my buffalo. Wasn't particularly impressed with the new Hornady DGX. It either came apart or didn't do anything. I as of yet have no experience with the Swifts or the North Forks but have never had very good experience with the Noslers, and couldn't find the right combination to make the Partitions shoot very accurately. Now the Barnes, on the other hand, holds together and creates a massive trauma site. And they are very accurate. I'm getting ready to try some of the Cutting Edge Bullets to see what velocity and accuracy I can get from them, but right now, the Barnes is at the top of my list.

Well the three of us are in agreement about Barnes. I just started using them two years ago, and they have been my go to bullet ever since I saw their performance on a PG hunt in the Eastern Cape.

I've got a pile of Nosler Partitions you might be seeing in the Classified section before long!

graybird,

I'm a huge fan of the Nosler Partition but for a bullet to use for everything other than ele and the very small antelope I think the TSX is the trick. You literally can take a shot from any angle if your using the TSX. I think the TSX is in a class by itself and ideal for multi species one gun one load safari. I used the 300 gr TSX in '09 in both Mozambique and Botswana for everything from buffalo and eland to all PG species other tha nthe very small antelope with excellent results.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
If you are not hunting elephants, is there a need to develop a load with solids? With the performance of the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, North Fork, and Swift bullets today, are solids needed for other species?

No, elephant is the only species I would use solids for. The performance of barnes on big game is amazing!

I'm sure that I'm probably an exception, but I use solids on everything except the big cats and big plainsgame species.

They're obviosly better on thick-skinned game; it's about a push on Cape Buff; and they make smaller holes in the hide of on smallish plainsgame, most of which I like to full-mount.

I echo the comments made about Barnes TSX bullets. My PH claims they are the best bullet he has seen, and I always use them as a first choice. He also told me he will not allow clients to shoot anything larger than an impala with a Hornady bullet - he has had a lot of bad experience with clients using them.
As for solids, I always carry at least some in case I want to shoot something small like a civet or serval. The solids do a lot less damage on the small guys.
Mangwana

I have used Nosler Partitions almost exclusively for over 55 years and have never found the need to look for any other bullet. They shoot accurately in all the various rifles I have used them in and that's everything out there. I have used them on everything from Duiker to Buffalo and I can't believe any animal can be killed more than dead. Why experiment with success. I have never had a bullet failure with a Nosler Partition that I can document. Maybe others have ,I wouldn't disagree,but I have no personal knowledge of a failure.

I have shot a few buff and a bunch of PG with Nosler Partitions, and they have performed wonderfully. Some "softs" perform more like solids to me, which may be OK for buff, but I am not crazy about that on may other species. I like expansion...

Do have a look at the "Terminal Ballistics" thread on the big bore forum. It is quite an eye opener!

We shot six buffalo in Mozambique a few years ago all with Barnes TSX. Each bull was killed with one shot and all bullets were recovered and had performed and opened perfectly. Another buff as killed cleanly with a Nosler. Other great bullet performance has been realized by Swift A-frames. Right now I am a big fan of the North Fork line.

Worst bullet performance has always been with Hornady's. We shot one nice buffalo with a Hornady at 80 yards perfectly broadside and the bull didn't react other than to raise his head. The rest of the herd bolted along with the bull and he was lost. Two months later the same bull was killed and the Hornady with which he had be hit on our hunt recovered. It had completely fallen apart on the shoulder of the bull. Nothing but pieces and a bent shank. Total bullet failure. The same has occured on other hunts with those bullets. Don't believe everything you see on TV.

I agree the TSX is as close to a solid as any other bullet I have ever tried. Like armor piercing on anything smaller than a Wildebeest. Just punches a hole and keeps on going. I still like A Square softs and solids.

Graybird: It depends on your shooting skills. If you're proficient with your rifle to make a well placed first shot, most African hunting can be a "one shot deal". If you have a history of poorly placed first shots, you might wanna rely on a crushing second shot with a solid to generate a greater blood trail.

Most African trackers only need a drop or two here or there to track a wounded beast, but many PH's prefer a solid as a second shot when possible. He'll watch you at the gun range when you take your first three or four initial shots, and in all likelihood make his recommendation for you there.

It's also good to carry a handful of solids just for finishing shots on flopping wounded game.

My vote goes to the Swift A-Frame. I also believe that Nosler partitions are lousy. You usually just recover the back end and the front is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Africa1:
I agree the TSX is as close to a solid as any other bullet I have ever tried. Like armor piercing on anything smaller than a Wildebeest. Just punches a hole and keeps on going. I still like A Square softs and solids.

I have to most strongly disagree with this statement. I've used TSX bullets on all sizes of animals from varmints to Cape Buffalo. Never had one fail to perform. EVER. Many times, the exit hole will look very similar to the entrance but the insides will be turned to jelly. Watch the video on the Barnes website where the TSX is shot into ballistic gelatin. Obviously, the wound channel expands exponentially behind the bullet as it exits leaving a hole of slightly larger than caliber.

This past year, I shot a Leopard with the 180gr TTSX from a 300H&H at 32 yards. Hit him just behind the onside shoulder, and the bullet exited just behind the offside shoulder. No major bones hit. The exit hole was about the size of a dime but the cat was dead under the tree, with everything forward of the diaphragm inside the ribcage completely destroyed.

I bring up this example as a Leopard is about as soft a target as one is likely to encounter and this bullet performed flawlessly. My son shot a Zebra for bait with the same rifle and load combo at just under 300 yards. Great shot by the way, but the critter ran about 50 yards and expired!

I do like the fact that they almost always exit.

Chuck - the Nosler Partition is not one of my personal favorites either. I prefer a Barnes TSX or a Woodleigh soft. However your comment about recovered Partition bullets reminds me of a conversation I had with a Speer technician many years ago. Whe voicing my concern about the recovered bullets' poor weight retention, he asked me "so exactly at what point during the animal's death did our bullet fail?" It is worth thinking about.
Mangwana

To underline the superiority of the TSX, this is what fast-driven, .510 caliber, 570 grain TSX bullets look like after penetrating several feet of buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:
If you are not hunting elephants, is there a need to develop a load with solids? With the performance of the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition, North Fork, and Swift bullets today, are solids needed for other species?

Always have some solids in DG country

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
To underline the superiority of the TSX, this is what fast-driven, .510 caliber, 570 grain TSX bullets look like after penetrating several feet of buffalo:

Michael, agreed. And I would think that Randy Brooks, when he owned Barnes, would consider those bullets to be failures because they lost the petals. Even so, they look awesome to me. I have one like this (225 TSX from a 340 Wby) from a Waterbuck. The petals came off but the remaining shank mushroomed just like these.

Here are a few of my recovered bullets from Giraffe, Cape Buffalo, Brown Bear, and Elk.

I will bring no more than 5 solids again, unless Im lucky enough to hunt elephant. The majority of the PHs Ive hunted with or spoken to on safari recommend Barnes/Swift/TB only, even on Buffalo backup shots. My Buff had two 400 grain A-Frames against the offside skin, flawless performance. Id bring the solids only in case a Problem Ele popped up ( like that would ever happen to me...)

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Michael, agreed. And I would think that Randy Brooks, when he owned Barnes, would consider those bullets to be failures because they lost the petals. Even so, they look awesome to me.

Yup. And Barnes can sell me that kind of "failure" every time I buy their bullets, please! The left one, as expanded, is .84 caliber and the right one is .62. And I'm convinced that the broken petals become very effective secondary projectiles, if the bullet is driven fast enough.

I make these bullets "fail" by driving them faster than they were intended to be driven. They are really NE velocity bullets, but I use them in my .500 A-Square and drive them to a MV of 2,500 fps.

They don't overexpand, but instead mushroom as shown and keep on penetrating.

They make fist-sized holes in a buff at that velocity, and they virtually paralyze both alerted and unalerted buffalo when they're hit through the boiler room.