I was booked for Gras Ranch this past March but, due to health reasons, I was forced to cancel. I plan to book for March 2010.

Has anyone shot PG with Berger VLD's? I'm interested in using the 168 VLD out of my 7RM. It produces just over 2950 fps and groups into 1.5" for 4 shots at 300 meters.

The animals I intend to hunt are kudu, gemsbok, wildebeest, zebra, red hartebeest and springbok. Maybe others as well since I intend to book for 10 days of hunting.

Bobby B.

Bobby if they are shooting that good I would not worry about the bullet, use it... I would assume it is a hunting bullet and not a target bullet... Shooting that well all animals will be in range at 300yds.

Have a great safari...

Mike

Bobby, I think using a target bullet on plains game is a very risking proposition. Too many possibilities for failure.

Stay with a premium hunting bullet. You might not get the same razor edge accuracy (or you might) but you will be assured of good performance in the animal.

j

I would definately prefer a Premium Hunting bullet.

Gentlemen,

I did an experiment on this a few years ago while hunting in South Africa.

I used Sierra Match King bullets, 180 grains in our own wildcat, the 30/404.

Velocity was over 3400 fps at the muzzle.

A number of us shot, nyala, zebra, kudu, impala, gemsbok and other plains game animals. The bullets disintegrated into the animals after hitting them, but we did not loose a single animal. In fact, most animals died within a few yards of being shot.

We had others in our party who used factory PMP ammo, from a 270 Winchester. And the only part of the bullets we could recover from those were the discarded jackets.

So the impression we came out with was that the Match King bullets were not any worse than the normal soft point bullets one gets in factory ammo.

And certainly shoot much better.

Bobby, have you used them on elk or moose?

If so, and if they take care of Elk without a hitch then they will handle PG.

Last season, I shot 5 deer with this load. The first broadside at 20-30 yds and it was DRT. The second broadside at 200 yds and DRT. The third was broadside at 100 yds and DRT. The fourth was quartering toward me at 437 yds and dropped at the shot but required a finisher. The fifth was broadside at 200 yds and ran a tight 20 ft circle and dropped dead. All were pass throughs.

The SIL drew a cow moose tag for this coming season and I'd like him to shoot it with this load. This should provide further info on this bullet's performance.

Most of my shots on game over the past 35 yrs has been on undisturbed standing animals so a broadside shot has been the norm. However, I've shot a few running directly away, a few running directly towards me. A few running broadside. A few moose, a few bear, a few antelope, quite a few deer. Most shot with the 150 NBT out of a 7RM at 3150ish.

Personally, I found the NBT to be a better killer than the NP. On the otherhand, a friend uses nothing but 180 NP out of a 300 Win on all his game animals and swears by them. We're all shaped by our direct experiences.

I wanted to try something different hence the recent switch to the Berger VLD in my 7RM. I'm curious if others have had more extensive experience with the Berger VLD's than I have had so far.

Bobby B.

I haven't shot Berger VLD's before, but do plan to try some in loads for my 300RUM and .264 win mag. I've heard good things about the VLD's terminal performance on most game.

CAelknuts,

That's what I heard as well.

Bobby B.

Saeed, the Sierra MK is one of my favorite bullets. Can you give us any idea about performance on non-broadside hits?

I killed a truck load of whitetails with the 168gr international Sierra when I was young, out of a 30-338 that didn't really like anything else. I never tried it on anything bigger. I'd really like to hunt with 200gr Sierra MK's out of one of my 300 win mags but man-o-man 3500fps is in a different class of velocity than I would be using.

Details would be great.

josh

Just got back from a south Texas pig hunt. I shot three pigs up to 250# with my 7 MM STW 140 grn Berger hunting VLD, 82 grns of H-1000, 3300 fps at muzzel.

Pig one, 40 yards, pig looking at me up in a tripod, shot it between the nose and eye and it looked like I blew the throat out with a grenade.



I shot another 100# sow that had already crossed the sendero, so couldn't lead her so the bullet hit her in the rear hindquarter. Went in as a little hole and broke down her hip and she drug herself off with just her front legs no blood but an easy trail with her dragging both hind legs. If I had of hit ner in the front shoulder she would not have moved from that spot.

Third pig was a 250# boar shot at 40 yards right in front of shoulder. DRT. Could not find a drop of blood on the pig when we loaded it into the truck. When we skinned it out it had gone in about an inch and just about took his head off. all internal bleeding and it didn't take a step.


I'm 6'-5" and pig was 250#


You were talking about Pig Game? LOL

Thanks guys, keep the reports coming. All good info. From all sources I've heard from, the VLD is a real killer. Nonetheless, I don't want to jump to any conclusions but remain confident in the 7mm 168 VLD on PG.

Bobby B.

I have shot quite a few ferral cattle killing dogs with the 55 grain .223 and the .308 168 grain Match King.

.223 at about 3,100 fps from AR-15 and the 168's from various 20 inch .308 Winchester's.

The .223 bullets expand, and kill well out to about 150 yards. By 200 yards they do not expand. If recovered they are bent somewhat, kind of collapsed on ogive.

About like hitting them with a FMJ that does not break in two at the cannelure. You know they are hit but it taks a couple more shots to kill them.

I never recovered a 168 grain, all pass throughs. I did not think they expanded. MV about 2,650 - 2,700 fps.

The small open point boat tails do not expand over a long range envelope like a good expanding bullet that will expand down to 1600 fps or so (500 yds anyhow).

The BTHP's disintigrate at high MV, then expand for about 100 yards range, then quit expanding entirely, all within about 200 yards.

I would guess the BTHP's quit expanding at about 2,800 fps?

You are obviously a good shot and there is somehting to be said with using what you are familiar with.

But I would prefer a premium hunting bullet. (North Fork, TBBC, Swift, Kodiak, Woodleigh, Federal Fusion, Nosler Acubond or Hornady Interbond).

PS I shoot the 160 grain Accubond and NF in my 7mm Remington at 3050 fps.

Andy

Monday morning around 10:30, my SIL shot a moose at 30-40 yds with my 7RM loaded with 168 VLD's at a MV of 2950 fps.

When we spotted the moose, it was laying in it's bed. It stood up offering a broadside shot through some stunted quaking Aspen. He shot it twice in the chest and the moose never moved more than 5 ft before dying.

After field dressing, we saw three bullet holes, all three holes were on ribs. My guess is one bullet entered and exited on a rib and the other bullet entered on a rib but did not exit. We did not search through the gutpile for a bullet.

The internal damage was less than I expected but the penetration was more. Although there was a great deal of blood inside the chest cavity, the lungs showed 2" daimater holes through them and not the shredded tissue I had suspected. Plus, I did not expect a pass through at such close range.

This performance adds to my confidence in the 7mm 168 VLD for use on PG.

Bobby B.

Has anyone here ever tried putting a Berger straight through the shoulders on a big game animal? Since most of the African antelopes have vitals located further forward in the chest cavity then our deer species in North America, the likelihood of having to put on through the shoulder is probably higher unless you can always wait for a quartering away shot. It seems as though these bullets are deadly when put through the ribs on a broadside shot, but I wonder how they would do going through a shoulder first.

My gut tells me that a 168 grain 7mm anything will effectively kill plains game.

Pete

It is highly unlikely that you'll shoot at anything as far as 300 yards, so you don't need to shoot VLDs. YOu can get by with a much more mundane bullet, such as a Nosler Partition, Trophy Bonded Bearclaw or any number of other fine bullets.

Personally, while I want to try VLDs, I wouldn't use them on an African hunt.

I am going to try the berger this year on whitetail. One thing to watch, they have two different jacket thicknesses, the thin one is the hunting bullet.
Saw deer shot with them last year that is why I am trying them.

Shoot the Berger's. They will perform just fine. I'm going to use their hunting VLD's on my next trip to Namibia in April.

Don't think you won't have a shot over 300 yards. You might not, but sometimes all you get on a really big one is 400 yards and up.

I once took my 7mm Rem. to Namibia shooting Hornady 139 gr., not even interlocks, for springbuck and steenbuck. My PH told me to use it for everything. He said he liked bullets that blow-up. His coment was "you can't believe how easy it is to track a dead animal". He was right, no pass thrus on the big stuff, Zebra, Wildebeast and Red Hartebeast but all dead within 20 yards......Tom