I recently spoke with a gunsmith who converts Browning .20ga S/S to double rifles. I have seen the work he does and it looks good. The gun I have is a single trigger Browning and I am considering converting it to .450-400

Any ideas or suggestions. Cost of parts and labor $4,000 plus my gun. I would use it on my next buffalo hunt in Zim. I am new to this forum.
This is my first post.

What ideas or suggestions for what? Seems like a good idea to me.

If I were having it done: I would get a simple shallow V rear sight and an ivory bead front sight. I'd try to get down as close to 8 lbs. as possible.

Likewise, I think it is a good idea. ONLY ONE SUGGESTION.........

Get double triggers..

ALSO put some pictures up when you get it for us to see...

Make sure the gunsmith who does the work keeps the "assembled in Korea of Japanese components" on top. That would be a nice touch.

I have such a shotgun and there is no mention of Korea, just made in Japan. Mine is the sporter version and I certainly wouldn't use it for such a conversion.

Find a good used double. Merkel,Chapuis, or some others can be had reasonably, most doubles as is the case with any big bore rifle, are safe queens, and get talked about a lot and shot little. This being the case they generally in good condition as far as being on face and tight lockup.

I'm not hammering AR types who shoot much more than most.


adrian

This is a risky deal and you may end up shelling out $4000 only to wreck a fairly valuable shotgun, not to mention converting your hand into a stump.

Shotguns are made to be light. One of the areas they take weight out of is the action. Boxlocks in particular are mainly hollow and the thickness of the sidewalls below the action flats is the critical area. There is generally not enough metal in a shotgun action to take the recoil of a nitro rifle cartridge. You need at least .125" of sidewall. Not many (almost no) shotguns are that beefy. Bear in mind, the area of a 450-400 at the rim isn't much smaller than a 20ga, but you are dealing with 3x the pressure so 3x the stress on the action upon firing. God forbid the gun doubles on you. Yes, the gun may take 20 or 50 rounds, but it will start to bend (gape) and then the action gets work hardened. The next chapter is the part where your hand turns into a stump.

Aside from that, the balance of these conversions is usually crappy as are the trigger pulls.

If you are going to attempt such a conversion, note the BSS action is not the best choice in any case. It lacks a third fastener, does not have bushed firing pins (as best I recall), and it's a boxlock not a sidelock so it is inherently weak. There's a reason that most of these conversions are to 45-70 loaded to the original BP pressures.

Suggest you sell your Browning for $2k (the 20s are fetching good money these days), and buy a 9.3x74R UGEX Chapuis for about $4500. Net cost, $2500. If you must have a 450-400, I believe Merkel, Heym, Krieghoff etc. are all now chambering that ctg.

Conversions are done everyday. Don't let the naysayers discourage you just because they'd rather sell you something!

20ga max pressure = 12000psi
450/400 max = 45000psi (?)

I would aggree with Russ, that would seal the deal for me.

I am sure there are no issues with the conversions but I dont like those odds.
How would this pressure increase influence longevity of the rifle?

I've got a 450/.400 and at about 9.8 pounds it's a sweet thing to shoot. Without heading for the bookshelf, though, I believe this calibre is among the higher pressure NE loads - not a good place to start making your own. The Browning's single trigger robs you of one of the main claim to db superiority, too.

Cheers
- Paul

I really wouldn't do this with that piece. Russ said it all, but I'll add this anyway.

I used to own one of these. The wording on the barrel as I recall was "assembled in Korea with parts made in Japan". It had very nice wood, whiteish almost ash colored. The finish was glossy. Bought it for $375 in the late '70s and sold it for a little more in the '80s. I used to call it my "tree trimmer". I used it a lot for dove hunting, but due to its being a 20 ga. I found it didn't have the reach I wanted and reserved it mostly for birds that were close and about to light in tree limbs overhead.

I don't really miss it. On a fast shoot the barrels could get so hot you couldn't touch them and even the forearm became uncomfortable to hold and the action got hard to open. Then it was time to shift to the Win Model 12. There was also a pin in the receiver that was forever trying to slip out. You had to knock it back in after every box of shells, or use locktite or something. The trigger was single mechanical and non selective. I never cared for the way it felt or pulled and wouldn't want it in an expensive DB.

At the last gun show ones in so-so condition had asking prices of almost $2K and no buyers I could see. I think they, amongst others, have become grossly overpriced.

In my opinion, the action isn't strong enough for a 450/.400 and I personally would limit it to something like a 30-30.

I agree with kayaker on the pressure. Shotguns are typically operated at roughly 8K to 12K. When handloading I used to try to keep it under 10K. I fully understand a safety margin is built in, but I don't know what it is.

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And Will is not trying to sell you ANYthing. Never ..

I thought he was an academic of some kind ... you would think he would understand the equation

Backthrust = breech area x pressure

I am rather tired of Will pissing on many of my posts. Will, if you have a beef with me, show up here in OR and let's sort it out. You can wear your shirt with the sleeves cut off and your shorts if you like.

I've got a 20 ga. Double Browning Sporter exactly like that. If I turn it into an elephant gun what am I gonna hunt quail with?


Rich Elliott

Were the original Searcy's on converted Brownings?

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Were the original Searcy's on converted Brownings?

That was always my understanding.

The origenal Searcy S/S double rifles were made on the Browning BSS 20 ga shotgun action. The rifles were chambered for 470NE, and the first ones were made on the single trigger model, with extractors.

The action had a third fastener added, and I understand the action body was re-heat treated.

One of those BSS conversions was sold to a man who used to post here on AR, and it was used to test ammo he was experimenting with. The rifle had over 3000 rounds fired through the rifle, and was still on face when it was sold to a PH in Africa,about 15 yrs ago, who I understand is still useing it today!

If you want to do this conversion, I'd give Butch Searcy a call, and get his info on things needed to make the conversion work best.

I personally built two 45-70 doubles on that same action without any changes in the action at all, but I used black powder loads in it,so I had no problem with it at all. I did have to add weight to the butt stock to ballance it,however!

Haveing said that, IMO, you would be money ahead keeping the Browning BSS 20 Ga shotgun, and find a good clean Merkel 140E, 9.3X74R, and shoot hell out of it, till you get a need for larger chambering, then keep both the Browning shotgun, the 9.3X74R double rifle, and find a good used Merkel 470NE. I think you will be money ahead in the long run, and have better double rifles,along with a nice little 2o Ga shotgun!

Whether the 450/400 is "HIGH" pressure or not is totally arbitrary. The Brits loaded up what they wanted and lived with whatever pressure that resulted. Saying there is a pressure limit on any cartridge is not the cartridge's problem it is the rifle makers' problem. Why should the 470 round have a pressure limit lower (or higher for that matter) than the 450/400? Why not? Who cares?

You put enough steel around the case so that it does not exceed the steel's elastic limit and away you go.

And frames are built to one size fits all, typically. A 470 frame is the same as a 577 frame and the same as a 450/400 frame. The poor little 450/400 winds up with a chunky frame and suffering from major overweight complex.

I made a 470 on a BSS frame and hunted buff with it, including the single trigger. And, oh my God, it worked just fine.

Hi good morning, my question is the scale of a 20 gauge shotgun will withstand the pressure of the metallic cartridge?.

Best regards,

Oscar.

I'm no expert by ANY measure. That said this subject has been covered extensively by a few who are. Do some research, lot's of research before committing! I will add my opinion that a double trigger gun would be prefered.

There are many forces at play and "pressure" is but one. Possibly one of the lesser, although it has considerable influence on the other forces at work. Another consideration is value if it means anything to you. An inexpensive double rifle will always be worth more (re-sale) than a conversion of any description. If you choose to do it, do so because you want to not as a way to go cheap!