The mention of the shot low in the chest reminds me of one of my own hunts, in whish we almost had a charge.

We saw a herd lying in the shade of some trees while driving. We continued driving until we were some distance from them. Stopped the truck and went back to try and shoot one of the bulls.

The wind was right, so we managed to get to about 50 yards of them. My PH picked the one to shoot. They were above us on a hillside, and I could clearly see part of his chest. I put a 300 grain Barnes X bullet low in the chest, thinking the angle was steep enough for the bullet to go through the heart.

The whole herd took off, with us close behind. Our bull and two or three others went to the left, into a valley, while the rest of the herd went to the right.

I fired two shots at him while he was running away from us in that valley, hitting him both times - I was using solids for these shots.

He showed absolutely no sign of being hit at all.

They stopped at the other edge of the valley, which was over 200 yards way.

I fired another shot at him, hitting him in the spine, and he dropped.

We crossed the valley, and approached him from behind. He was lying with his head to our left, and his back towards us. As we usually do in this sort of situation, we stopped about 15 yards from him, and were about to through a rock at him.

He must have heard us talking, as he tried to get up, and by the looks of it, putting every last bit of what was left of his life into this effort. If his spine was not broken, I am sure he would have charged us.

I put another bullet into the back of his head.

I have shot so many buffalo that die from one shot when hit in the right place.

I have aseen quite a number of buffalo that were not hit right the first time, show an incredible resistance to bullets.

It is most unnerving to put bullet after bullet into a standing bull, and him showing absolutley no sign of any effects these bullets on him.

After a number of these incidents, I made it a point to just shoot them in the head.

So far this has worked every single time.

This is one of the reasons that I'm taking a photo safari first. I want to make sure I feel comfortable with my gun(s), my surroundings, etc. I don't see it as wussing out -- just knowing what I can and can't do and under what circumstances. Please understand I don't think Nicki did anything wrong! I just mean for me I need to do a little reconnaissance.

Good luck to Nicki!

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, YOU DORK!

All ... This thread was intended to provide an avenue from which to express our concern for a fellow hunter and extend our wishes for a strong recovery. Surely, there's much we don't yet know but, please, let's await the facts prior to going off on tangents and address them in a separate thread, upon arrival.

What's a "wuss"? jorge

Someone who's afraid to come right out and say what he means Jorge.

Jorge,



wuss: A person regarded as weak or timid and especially as unmanly: �Cats are for wusses, dog men say.� [Probably blend of wimp, and pussy.]

Source: http://www.dictionary.com/



(Edited to add the salutation to Jorge. Also, Nickudu took offense to my post, as relayed to me via a PM from him, as he thought my posting of the definition of "wuss" was aimed at him as a reply to his post. It was not. I was simply answering Jorge's question. Nickudu and I have sense gotten this straightened out between us via PMs. Life goes on. )



-Bob F.

Saeed,

How often do you shoot a FMJ rather than your 300 gr Barnes X?

I would think it would be adequate even for a follow up shot with the buffalo going away, and better for breaking the hip, or rear leg bones than a FMJ?

As for stopping the buffalo, surely in this situation only a hit to the CNS would be effective, and a 30 caliber or 375 would have done as well or better than a .458 Lott since they are easier to shoot quickly.

I saw a police video tape recently of a bank robber who was shot in the heart with a 9mm 147 gr JHP (which is a very good bullet) plus several other peripheral hits, and he
stayed on his feet for more than a minute and continued to shoot, take cover, and move while continuing to shoot at officers!

He finally ran out of blood to his brain, sat down, and "went to sleep."

Do you guys practice head shots like IPSC shooters do?

Andy

afraid? or concientious? Sorry, just couldn't help myself. jorge

I don't use solids any more except for elephants.

At that time, as we have already shot two elephants, I just wanted to use the solids.

I have found that the Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets penetrate just as well as solids.

I have no idea how the IPSC guys do it, but I just aim to put the bullet in the center of the brain.

From: HHK Safaris
Date: 07/06/04 18:13:44
To: Kathi Klimes
Subject: Re: Fw: Graham-Incident Report on Buffalo

Dear Kathi

Niki was using a .458 her first shot was behind the shoulder but low on the brisket.

George the PH was using a .416 Rigby and Keith a .416 Remington

best regards

Graham

Kathi,

Do you know if the hunters involved were using soft points or FMJ's?

In particular, was the first shot with a soft or solid bullet?

While there is no such thing as a "magic bullet," (or rifle caliber), a soft point certainly has a larger margin for error than a FMJ on a low shot near the heart.

I read this report and thought to myself, "There but for the grace of God, go you or I."

It could happen to anyone.

Andy

500groans was just being a dork. No need for anybody to get their panties in a sanctimonious knot.

Hi all,

I'm new around here, so easy does it - OK? I've actually come onto this list to specifically add to this thread, of which I became aware on Tuesday night. And my post is not really in reply to a specific post, but to the thread.

I am from and in South Africa, living in Pretoria - about 60km from the hospital where Niki WAS in.

Niki and Keith should be close to home right now - they were supposed to fly out last night from Johannesburg International Airport. I didn't phone the number I've got again to confirm, so I trust they're out.

I have known Niki via the 'net for a couple of years now, corresponding here and there. Before seeing her in hospital lying flat on her back I never laid eyes on her before. Seen photos yes, but not in the flesh.

And before I get to more details of the incident itself, I must say that Niki knew what it was all about, and what she was getting herself into, and also that she was capable of standing up to it. She's shot her fair share of buffalo � I'm not sure how many, but I know there's a number. And also she's got guts. Anybody know about her pig-sticking adventures, the traditional way? In with the dogs, then onto the back of the pig in that melee and stick the thing with a knife � that's Niki.

When I asked how big this dagha boy was her words were also that she doesn't care too much about the trophy size or such, but much rather about how good and exciting a hunt it is. I obviously replied that she probably didn't bargain on it being all THIS exiting a hunt!

I visited them in hospital last Saturday, after speaking to Keith on the phone quite a number of times to keep abreast of Niki's progress, and spent an enjoyable time around them.

I'll let them fill in all the details when they're back up and running. I'll just fill in one or two of the things mentioned/asked here. BTW, I'm actually glad that somebody answered the question of the rifles, because I later realised that we discussed the hunt, events and other things, but never spoke about the rifles used � not important at that time.

Niki got off a shot before the buff hit her � into the ground. The buff's nose took her rifle on the muzzle before she could fully bring it up, and then she didn't have any more time. Let me backtrack a bit.

They were going in, the tracker in front, then the PH, Niki and Keith bringing up the rear. Niki was to cover the tracker. Momentarily took her eyes off him to the ground to look for spoor when all hell broke loose. PH got in a shot stepping aside (I see his report says two � Keith probably didn't hear the second one) and then the buff hit Niki. Took her back into the thick brush and worked on her, then tossed her, and then worked her over again when she came down. All this time PH and Keith were shooting � Keith showed he was about a foot from the back-end of the buff.

As Keith chambered his last round the buff took note that something unsavoury was happening at his rear and flipped around, looking at Keith with murder written all over his face � from about four feet. Keith brained him; he tottered back a step or three and collapsed � right on top of Niki. And those of you who've seen Niki know that there's not a lot of her to start with in the first place.

Well, enough from me now. And if the English is not too good I've at least got a good excuse � I'm Afrikaans

Thank you for sharing.

And welcome to the forums.

Cheers,

Andr�

Marius

Thanks for the comments.

Howdy Marius,

And welcome to AR. Thanks for the details from Keith & Niki.

For those that don't know him, he is a good guy -- you can also find him moderating on Sniper Country.

"buy-a donkey"

jim

Can we stop the squabbling and send Niki some flowers instead? She likes orchids.

Here's the address again:

Niki Atcheson
JACK ATCHESON & SONS, INC.
3210 OTTAWA STREET
BUTTE, MT 59701

Just do a google search on "send flowers Butte MT" and you'll get all the addresses you need.

Frans