At a recent outdoor exhibitor show in Novi, Michigan I came across a couple of hunters who after taking a look at a South African safari outfitters exhibit said that 'we used to go before the prices exploded'

When did the prices of SA plains game hunt go up?

What were these earth shaking prices?

I shot four trophy kudu bulls in 1983/84/85. The price then was ZAR 350 = 35 EURO per bull - INCLUDING THE MEAT!


http://www.kapstadt.de/schindlers-africa

I made my first African hunt in 1999. At that time the trophy fee for a Kudu was $800. The cost of hunts has certainly outpaced inflation.

In 1994, my first trip to Zim was to the Lemco... kudu was $675, eland a whopping $700 and my zebra was $450! I also did a few Huntpaks with Tony DaCosta and a seven to ten day trip with 5 or 6 animals would cost $2995 to $4300 depending on the species.

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I made my first African hunt in 1999. At that time the trophy fee for a Kudu was $800. The cost of hunts has certainly outpaced inflation.

The facts that I have does not support the statement in the last sentence.
The facts are:
Assumption: The $ 800 was typical of the cost in 1999.
1. Number of years from 1999 to now = 13 years
The ANC Terrorists' aimed for inflation rate 3 to 6 % I'll use 5 % as every years' inflation. Just BTW, most South Africans will argue that our actual inflation rate was indeed higher!
2. Median of 200 current South African web site published asking price for kudu = $ 1500 A good enough estimate of the typical kudu trophy fee now?

3. Mathematics of inflation in Excel: 800*((1.05)^13) = 1509

If an every year 5% inflation on $ 800 is added for 13 years the expected trophy price is $ 1509. Surely close enough to my actual database figure of $ 1500 to be able to say that the inflation rate on kudu was about 5% per year?

Many South Africans will argue strongly that the typical inflation here is closer to 10 % or 15 %. Just use 10% and calculate the predicted price of a $ 800 Kudu escalated over 13 years at yearly 10 % inflation:

Prediction = 800*(1.1^13) = $ 2764. This is the price that many will say a $ 800 in 1999 kudu escalated at an annual 10% inflation will cost now.

In good hunting.

Many South Africans will therefore be in total disagreement with the statement in your last sentence.

quote:

Tony DaCosta and a seven to ten day trip with 5 or 6 animals would cost $2995 to $4300 depending on the species.

Did you hunt with Barry Burchell Frontier safaris ?

Dave,
Yes I did... my first South African hunt in 2001. I met a young PH there who guided me by the name of Russell Lovemore. He, Julie and his boys Chad and Mitch are all dear friends.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I made my first African hunt in 1999. At that time the trophy fee for a Kudu was $800. The cost of hunts has certainly outpaced inflation.

If an every year 5% inflation on $ 800 is added for 13 years the expected trophy price is $ 1509. Surely close enough to my actual database figure of $ 1500 to be able to say that the inflation rate on kudu was about 5% per year?

.

Thanks Andrew Mc, sounds like the pricing in earlier times was not any different, with the adjustment for inflation, from todays prices.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

Did you hunt with Barry Burchell Frontier safaris ?

I hunted there that year as well! Seems like the price was almost $5000 for a big package with several big animals.

I hunted with a nice young PH, sort of wild but he was very respectful of his elderly clients, and provided a great deal of entertainment, beyond the hunt itself. I expect he will do very well for himself hunting on his own!

Les

Lee,
That wasn't Deon Pretorius was it? That gentleman was a hoot in camp!

No, not Deon. Though I believe he was in and out of the camp while we were there.

It was actually a very young Dave Davenport [Leopards Valley] himself. A first year PH, figuring it out as we went along! Great fun really! Those were good days.

Les

Ahhh... a set-up and I missed the ball completely! Rofl... I remember a young PH by the name of Andre who was also a very nice guy. Dave, where are they now?

RSA has increased in price in recent years but, to be honest, even at the RSA daily rates of a decade ago Namibia was and (more importantly) still IS a better deal. Trophy fees might often be six of one and half a dozen of the other between RSA and Nam but I think the country's safety, daily rates, service, and average hunt area size make Namibia the better destination. Namibia is to plains game as Zimbabwe is to DG I think. RSA is increasingly out of the running for hunting dollars IMO.

you're stretching my memory, but i think my first hunt the airfare was about 800. kudu were 250, nyala were the same, zebra were 125. daily rate was something like 150/day. I think i shot something like 7 or 8 animals, and the total cost airfare and all was less that 4000

tendrams,

I respectfully disagree on the relative costs between Namibia and South Africa. I base the statement on the statistics of my database that contain the published prices of many (about 200) South African and about 40 Namibian Hunting Outfitters.

The table below contains 4 columns: [ID], then the 1st Quartile form South Africa minus the first quartile from Namibia [Q1RSA-Q1NAM], then the difference between the 2nd Quartiles, or the median value - which is the best estimate of the "typical price" charged in each country. The last column contains the differences between the 3rd Quartiles. and finally the difference between the maximum prices. Some Namibian species are lower in price: gemsbok, red hartebeest and kudu (the negative values in table below). But then a lot of South African trophy fees are notably lower - the positive values in the table. Daily Rates are much the same for the two countries.

Sorry but it is beyond me to get the table to read easily. Fact is There are a lot of negative numbers - which means that those thing are more expensive in Namibia!

[ID] Q1RSA-Q1NAM Q2RSA-Q2NAM Q3RSA-Q3NAM
DAILY RATES PG1X1 16.25 -2.5 -28.75
DAILY RATES PG2X1 3.75 0 -18.75
BLACK WILLDEBEES -306.5 -437.5 -400
BLESBOK COMMON -225 -210 -297
BLUE WILDEBEEST -150 -250 -350
DUIKER GREY -62.5 -79 -100
GEMSBOK 300 375 241
RED HARTEBEEST 277.5 227.5 225
IMPALA -303.75 -345 -412
KILPSPRINGER -293.5 -325 -409.5
KUDU GREATER 307.5 500 555
SPRINGBOK -147.5 -168.5 -192.5
STEENBOK -50 -50 -81.75
WARTHOG -125.75 -133.5 -123.75
WATERBUCK -700 -825 -700


The table really tells you: There are horses for courses! Remember, that particularly from USA, Windhoek is quite a bit more difficult to get to than Johannesburg!

In good hunting.

quote:

The facts that I have does not support the statement in the last sentence

I'll have to respectfully disagree. You're using RSA inflation rates while we're paying in US dollars. Generally if inflation in RSA outpaces that of the US, the US dollar will buy more rands. According to an internet inflation calculator website $800 in US in 1999 equals $1,036 in 2010 (latest year available) currency. Of course currency exchange rates could fluctuate for other reasons, but I've never seen safari prices come down when the US dollar gets stronger.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

In 1992 I did a buffalo, sable, kudu plus impala, reedbuck and warthog for $7700 in Zimbabwe. It was a 10 day hunt with Rosslyn Safaris who were pricey for those days. My total trophy fees were about $3500 so I was all in at just over 11K.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Tony DaCosta and a seven to ten day trip with 5 or 6 animals would cost $2995 to $4300 depending on the species.

Did you hunt with Barry Burchell Frontier safaris ?

I agree! back in the Tony DeCosta days you could get home with six or seven animals and a 10 day hunt for under $3500 USD

I keep on meeting experienced hunters who hunted Africa in the 70's and 80's telling they were offered cape buffaloes for a few hundred dollars after they have hunted one or all of the big fives and it was considered as PEST and no big deal

Charges were also rare and not considered as real DG Hunting

suddenly cape buffalo have evolved in few years into a DG and charges every hunter and cost $12000 a head and often described by outfitters as one of the most exciting hunt one can participate ......

Turbo evolution !

This has to be the dumbest thread in a long time?

Really ? what did a can of pop cost in the 70's or a loaf of bread ? Can we really decry what stuff costs now?

But more so, why always the moaning and whining about prices in the RSA.

What if you were a South African wanting to shoot say a sheep or a moose or a bear in North America, think a bit on this one !

What do you think a Sheep costs in Canada when a visitor hunter wishes to take one ? and if you take that price and times it by 8 to pay for it it in South African rands the price asked suddenly takes on a whole new meaning!

And what did that same sheep cost in the 70's ?

I dare say South African hunting is in fact a bargain ! Even if the prices have gone up as have just about everything in South Africa.

In the 70's a Ford Ranchero pick up cost 5000 rand, we went to movies for pennies, I bought hunting rifles such as Sako's and Musgrave's for under 200 rands. We bought 22 LR ammo for 11 rands for a brick of 1000 rounds.

As to prices in the UK.... good grief A sandwich and a cup of tea in a corner cafe in London...... in the 80's the pound to rand ratio sat at 11 to one...... we paid 74 rands for a damn cup of tea.

The exchange rates back in the early 80s were near parity. Then in the 90s they went to 12 or 13:1. Now it's 8:1.

So bottom line, in 82, if you paid $500 for a Kudu, the ZAR equivalent was R500. That was about 1.5 oz of gold. In the 90s, Kudu went to $1000, ie R12000. That was about 2 oz of gold. Those were the golden years of game farming, even if the Rand was a shadow of its former self in terms of what you could buy with it. Now, you pay $1500 which is still R12000, but the R is worth about half what it was in the 90s in terms of buying power (esp in terms of fuel, food and vehicles). So it doesn't feel as good to the game rancher. And it's not quite 1 oz of gold.

By the "gold standard", hunting today is cheaper than it's ever been. Gold is real money. Paper is paper.

Back in the day, there wasn't really an organized game farming industry. You just knew somebody and they let you shoot a kudu on their cattle ranch. The boom started in the early 80s and really picked up steam in the 90s ... for obvious reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
I keep on meeting experienced hunters who hunted Africa in the 70's and 80's telling they were offered cape buffaloes for a few hundred dollars after they have hunted one or all of the big fives and it was considered as PEST and no big deal

Charges were also rare and not considered as real DG Hunting

suddenly cape buffalo have evolved in few years into a DG and charges every hunter and cost $12000 a head and often described by outfitters as one of the most exciting hunt one can participate ......

Turbo evolution !

Turbo evolution aka the 'Sullivan effect'..

Pre-94 you could still get a good deal in advance because everything was stable in SA. Post-94 when everything became chaos, inflation soared, safety a rumor, and any official gets payed more than a CEO is when the prices went beyond the ceiling.
Just because we were the "black sheep" of the world. We fell under pressure and unfortunately the clients have to help pay the bill.
Still, I believe that SA has some of the best hunting and tourism on offer anywhere in Africa even though the majority on this forum still give us a lot of stick.
Luckily we are used to it and will still be operating in 30 years from now when the rest of Africa is a dump with nothing to offer.

No offense meant. Just a fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
tendrams,

I respectfully disagree....

I also respectfully disagree...though your post, of course, makes a very important point. There are obviously certain species best hunted in certain locales. For example, I just never understood the guy who hunted Sable or Roan in RSA (or Namibia for that matter!) when it costs 1/5 as much to hunt the same species in Zim or Burkina Faso respectively. Similarly, it is nutty to hunt Black Wildebeest in Namibia really...unless you are getting really good bargains on the other more "native' Namibian species to make up for it. Ultimately, you are correct, that "it depends" but I still generally stand by my statement that many people (especially first timers) can probably shoot more (though slightly more specialized....eg. Dik Dik) stuff for less money in Namibia. I think they can also usually get a better "more wild" experience. In my mind you also can't really qualitatively compare a "bargain hunt" (or first quartile hunt)in RSA with the same quartile hunt in Namibia. I would guess the "budget" RSA hunt will be on a small patch of land and perhaps a put and take operation. Conversely, a similarly priced hunt in Namibia is VERY likely to be on an unfenced and huge property. In short, I would happily pick up a bargan $300 (or less) per day hunt in Nam and be confident...in RSA, that price would spook me. Yes, it also might be tougher to get to Windhoek...but are people really all that put off by the short extra flight with hot Namibian stewardesses?

i was pricing elk hunts a couple yrs ago and i was amazed to see that i could hunt in RSA cheaper than i could do a guided elk hunt in colorado. times change prices change inflation rate in USA has nothing to do with the inflation rate in RSA or any other african country. gas is now 5.48 a gallon in kenya 3 yrs ago it was 3.43 a gallon. not only that but the official usa government inflation numbers are bogas. inflation minus food cost and fuel cost try not eating or driving some time it;s tough ok off i'm getting off my soap box

I found an old ISA brochure from 1980. 10 days South Africa for $3,795 per hunter and $2,795 per non hunter.
This INCLUDES AIR FARE!
A sampling of trophy fees as follows:
$552. Nyala, $372 Burchell's zebra, $228 Wildebeest (blue), $120 Common reedbuck, $126 Mt Reedbuck, $120 cape bushbuick, $120 Blesbok, $108, Impala, $108 Steenbok, $84 warthog, $432 White tailed Gnu, $108 Springbok, $492, Eland, $432 Greater Kudu, & $372 Gemsbok. Sorta makes one sick doesn't it? I hunted Namibia through those guys in 1978, Zambia in 1980, and Zimbabwe in 1981. Those were for sure the god old days!
Rich Elliott

Guys

This thread is getting nowhere

We can either pay the high prices at present or stop booking

If there is a Will this can be arranged

It only takes 1 -2 poor season then prices

have to come down

Pure supply and demand .......

Who can hold out the longest wins

Rich, since those $3795 of 1980 dollars now equal over $10,500 even at the lame US inflation rates, I would not be surprised if you could put that hunt together in South Africa today!

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

It only takes 1 -2 poor season then prices
have to come down

Who can hold out the longest wins

Nice idea, but likely not going to happen. There have been 5 poor seasons so far, if you include this unpromising year. We are not seeing prices falling much.

Sure we see "advertised" low prices, with not much included, and you must wonder how much quality is left out to get to the low price too.

More likely the outfitter that must lower prices, inspite of increased costs, will merely go out of the business. It has already started.

The prices will not and should not go down. Every business operator must make his business work, to make a profit so they and their family may survive and stay inbusiness. If costs go up, prices must go up, it is really pretty simple. How many of the hunters longing for 2001 prices are making less money now than they made then?

AND, given the developments in Botswana, the instability of other hunting countries, I fear that those who "...hold out the longest..." will miss out on the opportunities today!

Go now, while you still have somewhere to go!

Les

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
There have been 5 poor seasons so far, if you include this unpromising year. We are not seeing prices falling much.

If you haven't seen the deals come out over the last few years then you just haven't been paying attention. Sure, advertised prices have stayed about the same and hunts booked for the first 2/3 of the season were offered at a similar price as previous years...but when there is inevitably leftover quota at the end of the season, that's when the bargains become available.

I remember right when the financial crisis started many outfitters were on this very site boldly claiming to be booked years in advance....yet there they were 18 months later with some "cancellation" deals.

ten,

Since the subject here is/was South African safari prices, I'll stick with my comments.

Oh I see the specials and the "left over quota", and am sure some deals do exist. But, for most of the "deals" - are they where you want to be? and with an oufitter you want to hunt with?

The one thing I am sure of though; there are no free safaris.

Les

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
ten,

Since the subject here is/was South African safari prices, I'll stick with my comments.

Oh I see the specials and the "left over quota", and am sure some deals do exist. But, for most of the "deals" - are they where you want to be? and with an oufitter you want to hunt with?

The one thing I am sure of though; there are only very few no free safaris.

Les

Les, please forgive that I've edited your quoted posting a bit.

Since 2009 I have donated a totally free safari every year. This was, and is, a decent multi-small animal plains game hunt, with choice of extending the hunt to include either an observer or second hunter, at "true cost" prices.

My price database was not set up to keep track of former prices; I simply update any outfitters old prices with the new, without keeping record of the old. But, the impression I get is that in the last few years the South African hunting outfitters made smaller yearly increases in their prices. In future I'll retain the "old" prices and in a few year's time the question of game prices inflation should be easy to reply to.

In good hunting.

Hi, Andrew ! Going back to the distant times of my life .. I hunted in the Transvaal in 1977. (My trip to Kenya was cancelled because of the ban) At 2x1 it was $200 each but the California guy who was my partner met me for the first time and said that he didn't want to hunt with me ! So we got another guide in for him. Cost me an extra $500 for the ten days and about the best money that I ever spent. The dude was such a jerk that near the hunt when a leopard hit a bait - they moved the bait so that he wouldn't shoot the cat .. Taught me some kind of a lesson .. This was before the areas were high fenced. Zebra and wildebeest were $100 each .. kudu were $250 ... leopard was $650 (I got one !!!! ) hyena was $75, I think impala were about $50 ... and lion was $1,500. The entire ten day hunting trip including airfare cost me $7,000 and most folks thought that I was nuts to spend that kind of money. I returned three years later and everything had gone up (including some high fences in the area) .. zebra were $300, lion was now $2,000 ... I took my wife and hunted a total of about 15 days in both Southwest Africa and South Africa. Shot lots of game including a fine lion .. and the total cost was a mind boggling (back then for sure) of about $29,000 .. I also got a cheetah ...

I hunted with Andrew for guinea fowl and blesbok last July ... great times and much more reasonable than long ago .. And, my goodness, but his wife can cook !!!

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
But, for most of the "deals" - are they where you want to be? and with an oufitter you want to hunt with?

That is a very good point. If someone wants deals, they obviously need to be flexible about area and outfitter. If someone else is bound and determined to hunt with X PH and in Y area on Z dates, they cannot expect a bargain and it is only right that they pay full fare to get EXACTLY what they want. In my life however I have found that "deal shopping" is a great way to experience new places and people. I just check references before booking and see the world. The opportunity to hunt this way has increased dramatically in the last few years. Frankly, I think it was starting to increase way back in 2002 immediately post 9/11.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Ahhh... a set-up and I missed the ball completely! Rofl... I remember a young PH by the name of Andre who was also a very nice guy. Dave, where are they now?

Sorry I missed this, all the guys are still hunting. Barry is a controversial fella and most of his PHs from the golden years have left him. Andri Fox has gone on his own
Russel lovemore has gone on his own.andrew Harvey has gone on his own.
Deon Pretorious managed a game farm and has now got married and has started a handy man business in Grahamstown.

I'm also still hunting an work for Dave Davenport of Leopards Valley Safaris and the bastard works me to death !!

I married a local Grahamstown girl so still get to visit the " Rat an Parrot" as often as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
I made my first African hunt in 1999. At that time the trophy fee for a Kudu was $800. The cost of hunts has certainly outpaced inflation.

The facts that I have does not support the statement in the last sentence.
The facts are:
Assumption: The $ 800 was typical of the cost in 1999.
1. Number of years from 1999 to now = 13 years
The ANC Terrorists' aimed for inflation rate 3 to 6 % I'll use 5 % as every years' inflation. Just BTW, most South Africans will argue that our actual inflation rate was indeed higher!
2. Median of 200 current South African web site published asking price for kudu = $ 1500 A good enough estimate of the typical kudu trophy fee now?

3. Mathematics of inflation in Excel: 800*((1.05)^13) = 1509

If an every year 5% inflation on $ 800 is added for 13 years the expected trophy price is $ 1509. Surely close enough to my actual database figure of $ 1500 to be able to say that the inflation rate on kudu was about 5% per year?

Many South Africans will argue strongly that the typical inflation here is closer to 10 % or 15 %. Just use 10% and calculate the predicted price of a $ 800 Kudu escalated over 13 years at yearly 10 % inflation:

Prediction = 800*(1.1^13) = $ 2764. This is the price that many will say a $ 800 in 1999 kudu escalated at an annual 10% inflation will cost now.

In good hunting.

Many South Africans will therefore be in total disagreement with the statement in your last sentence.

Andrew, your math and reasoning are spot on for outfitters like you whose revenue and expenses are denominated in rand, but many outfitters have their revenue denominated in US dollars or euros. In cases like those, the value of their expenses relative to their revenuse has decreased.

Mike

Let's talk about the high cost of moose hunts shall we?

When I was outfitting in the 70s Stone sheep were $4,500 moose $1500 now $40,000 and $20,000. An if it wasn't for the recession it would have been $50,000 for Stones!
Jim

One thing that pushes prices up is how we get raped for vehicles and diesel in this country. These are major expenses for any safari operator and have seasonal use but year round payments.

"One thing that pushes prices up is how we get raped for vehicles and diesel in this country."

That statement is spot on. I realized that when I was there in 2011. Besides that, most everything else is much costlier than products we can get I. The U.S