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One of Us |
If what Mark Sullivan does is contrived, at least it’s real. And if the world needs action adventure heroes (which he apparently thinks he is and which millions of people seem to need), better MS than the real pretenders and clowns; Schwarzennegger, Stallone, Hulk Hogan (and on and on ad infinitum). S. | |||
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By reading all these posts and some of those I found doing a search here on MS. I'd wager he is a genious at selling a product. If his rates weren't so high I'd hunt with him, why not? If I do my job correct to begin with there won't be anything but a dead buffalo to walk up on.If I screwed it up I would be damm glad he can handle his double gun so well. | |||
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I know one thing he is not, and thats stupid. Even those that cant stand him know details of his movies,,why cuz they have all watched. I bet his bank account shows it. He's a salesman and i dont think he would deny that. things like this forum only help him, by us talking about it even in a negative way would only put a nice big grin on his face. He's got the perfect setup. | |||
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I wonder what people of his day, said about Bell and his .275 Rigby.   | |||
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I've heard he charges $50,000 for a buffalo charge. Imagine paying that, and you stand and watch while he shoots it. THAT's what I call STUPID. | |||
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I second that. Brian "If you can't go all out, don't go..." | |||
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Saeed, I´m not defending the guy here as I dont like what he does but you have "heard" alot about Mark from your posts and we know that what we "hear" doesn´t count for much. Where did you "hear" this latest one from? i.e. who told you about what he charges? "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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He does more in 1 video to help out the bunny hugger groups than Peta can muster in a year. You can call him a salesman or whatever you like, but the fact is he is whoring out the sporting life. Guys like him will be the demise of hunting in the long run. They drive those people that don't hunt and don't care about hunting one way or another to the opposing side. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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My feelings on yet another MS re-hash......?  | |||
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If we would stop talking about him and people stopeed hunting with him he would go away there is no choice until then we must wait for a buff or a hippo to have their way with him. There is nothing about the whole thing that is anything short of ridiculous. 50000  | |||
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Exactly what Saeed said. | |||
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Another thing about Mark Sullivan's videos, is that I have yet to see a soft bossed buff bull shot on video. | |||
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Mark is a genius and is laughing all the way to the bank. He puts out an entertaining video and everyone here has apparently seen them so they are selling. He gets to hunt more than I do and shoot more game, and hey I'll admit it, I am about quantity and quality. If he has plenty of clients that is their problem. Apparently he treats them pretty well as I understand he has quite a few repeats. You can question his ethics for sure but that is subjective. SA has people that shoot lions there but I personally would not. I heard a statistic that Colorado DNR claims a 28% non-recovery rate on archery shot elk. And we don't question the ethics there. I bet Mark's loss rate isn't that high. I say more power to him. I enjoy his videos even though the dialog does leave a lot to be desired at times. A little too melodramatic. I'll bet there are a lot of Mark Sullivan closet video watchers. Lots of naysayers too that wish they could experience what he delivers. We all go to Africa for the adrenaline rush, he has cashed in on it. | |||
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Probly nothing was said it's only recently that the hunting comuinty became ethics police. When I was a kid you hunted how you chose to and it wasn't anyone eleses bussiness. These guys who moan and bitch about MS have entirley to much time on their hands. Just becuse MS provokes a charge the Buff dosen't suffer any more than when one of these arm chair quaterbacks blows his shot at 50 yd off sticks and has to track the poor wounded buff for hours while pissing his pants and then has the PH sort out his mess for him. I have watched most of MS tapes he handles himself well in the face of a charging Buff or Hipo. Almost every Buff he shoots has been shoot while charging by the client first. He says on his tapes that you can hunt a life time in africa and avoid a charge if that is your goal. (Saeed has shoot over 100 buffs and has never been charged). MS goal is to put himself to the test to see if he has what it takes to stand his ground. He obviously has the balls to do what he does verey well. If you want to avoid danger while hunting Dangerous Game that is your choice. If MS or anyone else wants to see the elephant and come out of it noing hes been their, its his choice. So why don't you you Guys just get off MS back. Dr B | |||
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Dr B, You hunted how you chose to and it wasn't anyones business? I like to shoot all my animals in the guts so they take a long time to die. It's my way so back off and let me do what I want. Damn ethics police! "Be kind and polite to everyone you meet. But have a plan on how to kill them." From an old Marine. | |||
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NEVER BEEN to Africa and at the present rate will probably never get there, so I don't know how I would handle a charge by anything in Africa, although I was charged by a small black bear on a moose hunt. BUT I have been the first person through the door on well over 150 high risk raids.(before they came up with the idea of portable bunkers) I was a sniper as well on EST. I spent over 5 years working undercover narcotics operating where sometimes I would be the only white guy several stories up in an inner city high rise in a room full of major players who would kill at the drop of a hat if they thought I was anything but another player. I was good enough at what I did I got farmed out for a gig to work Cubans in Miami and Mexicans in Chicago for the FBI. Along the way I also played contract killer on two different people. I have been shot at more times than I care to contemplate but I can guarantee you would need more fingers than the standard issue to make the count. My dangerous game hunting was with game that had the ability to shoot back. I was 14 when I started running a hydroplane, solo'd my first airplane when I was 17, gone through don't know how many motorcycles. ALL of this activity was VOLUNTARY on my part. Some people are adrenaline junkies and some are not. I have watched LOTS shows about DG hunting and read a ton of books on Africa and hunting, and yes have seen the Mark Sullivan tapes. quite honestly, from all I have seen, heard, read and watched, IF I wounded something that could bite, I would like the opportunity to finish the job. It looks like Sullivan at least gives that opportunity to the client vs the PH who says it is too dangerous and keeps some camp person guarding the client while the PH goes in and finishes the job. THAT should be the rightful choice of the person paying the bills, within reason of course. To me, going all the way to Africa to shoot an animal at 150yds or even 50yds with a super magnum is not my idea of DG hunting. At that range and style the DG is as dangerous as a whitetail. I liked the Capstick description of being close enough to an elephant to smell the peanuts on its breath. IF I wanted my "dangerous" game hunting to consist of hunting where there is no risk, then I would go to a farm and shoot cows. NEVER fear the night. Fear what hunts IN the night. | |||
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Lawcop Very well said. I agree 100%. Dr B | |||
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Don't get personal with the fu...ing animal.Your are suppose to be more intelligent.I understand why you feel he is really dangerous.He might have more brains and eat you alive! | |||
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I just added two members to my ignore list, first time I've ever done that. It is GREAT! | |||
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a what list???? | |||
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There is a big difference between muffing a shot, and haveing to track him down to finish the job, and standing talking to the camera, telling what a great concession you have, while a wounded buff struggles in the background, when "THE CLIENT" could just walk up and shoot him out of his pain!
The thing I find wrong with the above quote is, that buffalo doesn't belong to MS, it is the client's! How come you never see him simply backing a client in a provoked charge? That is his job, the killing of the buffalo belongs to the client hunter!
Again,as long as the buffalo, or elephant belongs to MS, then that is his choice, but they don't belong to him. The mark of a REAL PH is to hunt many clients without ever fireing his rifle, not takeing the COUPE DE GRAS away from the client, who is paying the bills! I can tell you in a heart beat, he would not shoot one of my Buffalo! If he did, he'd pay the trophy fee for it! I don't think you could ask for a better sittuation, than to have someone else pay for all your buffalo shooting, but anyone who allows MS to shoot all their Buffalo, are the ones who have no balls, because if they did, they would tell MS to do his heroics on his own dime! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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All that would be great, but he doesn't back the client, in a provoked charge in any film I've seen him in!
I also agree with you on what constitutes dangerous game, and what doesn't! That is why I hunt Buffalo exclusively with double rifles, and get in close. like ME, I don't think you would stand back and let MS shoot your Buffalo,for you, simply because it is close, and dangerous! That is what dangerous game hunting is all about. Hell most of the guys on MS's films could send money over, and stay at home, and have MS ship the trophy to them, if he is going to shoot them anyway. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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IT is hard to explain to some folks. I got my law degree and BAR card in the early 80s and stayed in police work. I got it NOT because I had this burning desire to be a lawyer, but because career ending injuries are so easy to get as a cop and I thought it would beat working security in a booth or doing detective work chasing cheating husbands. When I was working undercover and seriously going in harms way a LOT because I could do things that others couldn't couldn't do(didn't shave or cut my hair for 5 years. looked like Attilla the huns older brother  ) All the time I had folks asking me WHY was I doing that, when I could be doing something else that would be much more financially rewarding, and would tell them it wasn't about the money.  All I can say is you are never more alive the closer you come to dying. The down side is after being out on the edge so long, it takes more to get to that adrenaline high.NEVER fear the night. Fear what hunts IN the night. | |||
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IT is hard to explain to some folks. I got my law degree and BAR card in the early 80s and stayed in police work. I got it NOT because I had this burning desire to be a lawyer, but because career ending injuries are so easy to get as a cop and I thought it would beat working security in a booth or doing detective work chasing cheating husbands. When I was working undercover and seriously going in harms way a LOT because I could do things that others couldn't couldn't do(didn't shave or cut my hair for 5 years. looked like Attilla the huns older brother ) All the time I had folks asking me WHY was I doing that, when I could be doing something else that would be much more financially rewarding, and would tell them it wasn't about the money. All I can say is you are never more alive the closer you come to dying. The down side is after being out on the edge so long, it takes more to get to that adrenaline high.[/QUOTE]Lawcop, The analogy here is quite simple. Doing what you do in the MS mode would be to pay some guy big bucks to do your undercover work for you while you stood back and watched. Anytime you had a bad guy cornered you would set up the cameras just right for the perfect shot then have your paid guide go in and shoot the bad guys for the camera while you stood back and watched. You could then purchase the videos of your paid shooter and tell them all what a brave steady guy he is. Included could be clips of you bumbling your job wounding perps and flinching when you tried to pull the trigger with the safety on. Then cut to your hero, paid shooter taking care of your fumbling in heroic style. All of these things are included in some or all of MS's videos. | |||
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surestike: your analogy is right on but you forgot mention; the bad guy would first be gut shot then cornered so that he could then decide "how he wants to die" either slowly by gutshot wound or by a forced charge with a brain shot nothin sweeter than the smell of fresh blood on your hunting boots | |||
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I could personally care less about Mark Sullivan. I have met him once but didn't talk long enough to form an opinion. I did have the pleasure of sharing a charter plane with a gentleman in Tanzania that had hunted multiple times with Mr Sullivan. He had hunted both on camera and off camera. The following is what he had to say: >He is a great guy. His word is his bond. >He is funnier than hell. There can be no one better to share a camp eith. >The guy knows how to shoot a rifle whether it is 4 feet or 400 yards, he is deadly. >He in incredibly calm under pressure. >Mr Sullivan has a completely different personality on camera than he does off camera. >He is a bit quick to shoot at wounded game. >He is afraid of wounded leopards. >He isn't real good at judging elephants on the hoof. >After 3 trips with Mr Sullivan , he still did not have a lion. >He would absolutely hunt with him again. >He is a very saavy business man that understands marketing very well. >Mr Sullivan has correctly figured out what sells. This is a direct quote which I happen to agree with,"Whether you like his videos or not, you don't hear people talking about those boring ass South African plains game videos like they talk about Mark's videos." Finally has anyone heard anything about him having a heart condition that cut short his season in Tanzania? | |||
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MacD37=a true hunter  | |||
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How do you know it is "gutshot" and not lung shot? | |||
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MacD37 I agree with this part of your reply I belive he does shoot more than he should on his tapes. It was one of the first things I noticed and probly why I haven't booked a hunt with him. I have said several time on this fourm just what you said "I can tell you in a heart beat, he would not shoot one of my Buffalo! If he did, he'd pay the trophy fee for it" Each time I have been trashed by these Great White hunters that have the PH shoot as soon as they do. Suposly I'm unethical becuse I want to kill my own animals and had said I won't take a trophy home that a PH shoot for me,unles it was to save my life. If some one wants to shoot a Buff at 100yds with a scoped rifle and sticks, then go home a spin tails of their Dangerous hunt in Darkest Africa thats OK with me. It's just not how I'm made. Dr B | |||
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I have watched most of his tapes I have never seen a animal Gut Shot. I have seen them shot in the lungs. I also have never heard a bad report from any one who has ever hunted with MS if anyone has a bad report from their hunt with MS please let us know. I would love to hear it. The reason for my first post was I just get tired of people who have never hunted with MS allways raging on him. Dr B | |||
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I think its entirely fair for people to rag on what his videos portray and represent. He put them in the public domain and he profits from it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of them and what they think of the man by association. If its not a true representation of what the man is like when the camera is not running, that is irrelevant. He put it out there, and as a result I personally don't feel you have to have hunted with him to form an opinion. FWIW, Canuck | |||
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DR B, I remember that string, and i think what set people off was in the instances you pointed out, the PH Andrew Dawson, was shooting right after the client fired his rounds! I know Andrew, and I know he will not shoot unless there has been an agreement with the client in advance, or the buff is about to hurt someone, or getting into some real thick stuff where someone may be killed! Once I put a killing shot into a buffalo, I have no problem with the PH giveing him a parting shot! That, however, is not what MS does, He Takes over with a downed buffalo that belongs to some one else, and provokes a charge so HE can shoot it on film. That sceenario is not hard to come by, with Buffalo, because if a buff is not brained, or spined he will still, most times, be alive when you come up to him, and if he sees you close he will make an attempted charge. That is fine as well, but the client is the one who should be faceing the bull, with the PH ready to take over if your shots fail to get the job done. That is his job, and he doesn't need your permission if done in that context, and there is nothing unethical about that! Again that is not what MS does! I don't believe, for one minute, that MS purposely wounds animals to get these charges. He doesn't have to. Anyone who knows anything about buffalo will tell you if you approch a downed buff from the front he will get up if he can, that is no mistery! My problem with him is he is a shooting hog!  PS: However, I'm with you on other people shooting my game, just because he wants the see if he has what it takes to stand HIS ground (actually, my ground)!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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So just for clarification. Whom, that has posted on this thread has hunted with MS? | |||
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That IS pretty clear on the videos. RIP report that in a recent video, MS even went so far as to chastise a client for shooting before him (or just too soon) during a charge. If that is true, it is a clear indictment of the man's ethics, IMHO. I do not like his philosophy of "let the buffalo decide" how he wants to die (one should respect the animal by minimizing its suffering, IMHO), and chastising a client for shooting too soon is 100% wrong. Whether its an act for the screen or not means nothing to me. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Canuck, It's true. I was lonely one night in Wichita, so I went to Sportsman's Whorehouse and I bought a porno DVD called Death by the Ton. It was this QUEER BEHAVIOR BY MS, referenced by you above, that led me to ask the question: Is Mark Sullivan Gay? Some might recall a thread with title like that.  | |||
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The only time that I will look at videos of animals being shot is when I think I will gain knowledge of bullet placement or performance.I do not find videos of such nature entertaining at all. | |||
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I bought the first four films MS put out, the first being BLACK DEATH which was a prity good film. That film got so much comment about the close charge that almost got Mark, that he has steadily increased the amount of charges he provokes on a film. I still have those four films, and they are very good to study the body luanage of buffalo that are wounded, and close. These are very good training films for what not to do! They also let you know what a Buff is likely to do, because of the way he acts. Still, I haven't bought another of his films after SUDDEN DEATH, which was the first film Allen was in, and Allen's buffalo was the only one in the whole film that wasn't shot my MS himself. That film disgusted me, and I quit MS films/book! That is too bad because his filming is techniclly high quality,though even if more ethical, are not worth $50 bucks. They are good quality because his camera man is the one who has the balls in that pair, IMO!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Any takers on the who's actually hunted with Mark question? Of course I do have to give Mark some credit on his tape "Death on the Run". After Hector wounds his buffalo and they purposely circle until there wind is in the buffalos face set up the camera and let the buffalo make eye contact with him and waits until he gets up to charge. (ALSO KNOWN AS A PROVOKED CHARGE). Then Mark plows it with his .600 all very dramatic. However the best part of that sequence is when Mr. Dialogue himself makes that unbelievably corny little speech about "If you're going to hunt these animals over here ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, USE............Enough.............GUUUNNNN!" Of course every time there is a video camera around someone who's seen that has to imitate that line with a dead rabbit or a squirrel at their feet while shakily grasping their .22 short. It has truly changed the way people make fools of themselves in home hunting videos the world over. I think it’s something Mark should be very proud of. It is kind of like the “show me the money†of the amateur video hunting world.  | |||
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