Hi,

I´m back again with a medical complaint and I need to consult colleuges/fellow patients who hunt and shoot.

Facts: My left hands first three fingers are numb/tingling, turning my head to the left worsens the symptoms. ENMG gave as a result a fresh lesion corressponding to myotomes of C6 and C7.

I´ll be having an MRI on Friday so that should clear up some things -herniation or degeneration...and lets not use the c word.

Question: What about my shooting? So far no Dr wants to take a stand on my hunting/shooting but what is your experience?

Thanks!

I would say go for it, I am not a DR, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

DOJ: That was my first reaction but then I started thinking... I really want/need to go to SA next year and I don´t want to make matters worse.

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Hi,

I´m back again with a medical complaint and I need to consult colleuges/fellow patients who hunt and shoot.

Facts: My left hands first three fingers are numb/tingling, turning my head to the left worsens the symptoms. ENMG gave as a result a fresh lesion corressponding to myotomes of C6 and C7.

I´ll be having an MRI on Friday so that should clear up some things -herniation or degeneration...and lets not use the c word.

Question: What about my shooting? So far no Dr wants to take a stand on my hunting/shooting but what is your experience?

Thanks!

cewe,

I had (and still have) exactly the same symptoms and in the beginning the pain was unbearable and I couldn’t sleep properly for months!
It all started over 20 years ago. I refused surgery and somehow my body seems to “have learned†how to handle the situation.
My fingers are still numb, my right arm and my neck still hurts now and then, I can’t turn my head as fast as I used to, but all this hasn’t (and will not!) stop me from hunting and shooting.
Just have to avoid long shooting sessions at the range!

B.Martins

B.Martins: That sounds like what I want to hear! If it comes down to surgery I´ll have to think things through because a procedure isn´t without risk. Then again I´d like to be able to lift, exercise, do work around the house etc.

I´m feeling better already!

If the MRI does not show disc herniation or prolapse, see a Chiropractor before you consider other invasive procedures.

Dirk

i've got a herniated disc in the back that the shot of cortizone is helping some. going moose hunting in 3 weeks so i'll try to get another shot just before, but if not i'll go anyway. have yoou had the cortizone shot yet?? if not after the mri they can tell you whether or not it will help. hurts like hell to get but the relief is immediate

I´ve been having OMT therapy, which is basicly chiropractics, and it´s helped a bit but only for a short while. I´ll be seeing my orthopedic surgeon next week (I was supposed to get my other knee exchanged and now this) and we´ll make a plan.

F-ck I hate middle age! I´m only 48 and I´ve been falling apart for the last ten years.

Get the results from your MRI before shooting any more.
If it is a disc herniation that measures 5mm or less in the ap dimension, then go ahead and shoot.
This would be treatable with conservative therapy, like PT, Chiropractic and likely an epidural.
If the herniation is greater that 10mm, plan on surgery.

Having surgery to enable you to do work around the house .

i have a ruptured disc in c-6/7 with same numbness in arm and hand. been 15 visits to PT
and helped reduce the numbness and strengthen my arm and hand. getting the ACDF operation next month or so , know there are risks but i still cant hold or shoot my bow . From what the Dr said rehab 4-8 weeks and should be able to start shooting my bow in a limited capacity .
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Good luck.

I had a motor vehicle accident Thursday two weeks ago.

I broke my C3 vertebrae and with God's grace I am still walking around.

Bone was taken from my hip to rebuild the C3 vertebrae and C2 to C4 was fused.

The next 6 weeks will be very important for recuperation but the Doctor is very happy with the operation and he said that I should have no problem shooting with rifles or my bow.

For now that has been put on the back burner until next year.

I hope your pinched nerve will allow you to shoot as well.

cewe,
I'm presently suffering the same symptoms only mine is the right side! I've had this problem before, neither time do I have a clue what brought it on but it's a PITA!!!
Curiously the first time this happened to me about five years ago I was working on a (too light) .444 Marlin. Took it out to the range one day for some function testing and later that evening realized my shoulder/chest/arm didn't hurt anymore! All I can figure is the (horrible) recoil knocked whatever was out of place back where it's supposed to be. Wouldn't reccomend it and haven't worked up the courage to try the same "cure" again! Good luck.

cewe

Spinal cord compression or C6-7 nerve root compression are nothing to mess with as the nerves can atrophy over time under constant mechanical stress. However you can have the problems you described without direct mechanical stress on nerve tissue. Chemical irritation from damaged discs can also cause these symptoms. Damaged discs (herniations) are often absorbed/resorbed/repaired by the body over time (a few years). Symptoms usually decrease over time as the body repairs disc damage. I wouldn't get too hung up on the MRI results. MRI and CT are wonderful tools, but in some instances provide little real clinical help to treating doctors. In MRI studies of random people off the street it is common for people to have herniated discs and not have any complaint of pain. It is weird that some people are debilitated by herniated discs while others are walking around with seemingly identical MRI results and no pain.

There are several important factors in determining whether to perform surgery or not. Severe canal or foraminal stenosis (narrowing), progressive neurological deficit (your symptoms continue to get worse over time even with treatment), and red flags (loss of bowel or bladder control, drop attacks, or anything else that makes your doctor say yikes!) are signs for immediate referral for surgery or surgical consult. I am not advocating avoiding surgery at all costs, but I would say that surgeons will recommend surgery, general practitioners will proscribe you drugs, PTs will want to rehab you, and chiropractors will want to adjust you, so if a surgeon recommends surgery I would get second and third opinions and exhaust all more conservative treatments as long as there is not an immediate danger to your health in delaying surgery. Feel free to PM me if you like.

Brett

Man AR is the pace to go when a guy needs info fast!

Surgeons will cut but disc operations are down a lot compared to 20 years ago, they´ve actually become more conservative in treating this sort of thing -which is good.

I hace friends who are PT´s and they are great for support and help. I´ve been using NSAID meds for years do to osteoarthritis so that path is pretty much worn out.

I need to be patient, I know...but then I start thinking "What if...?"

I guess thats the way we humans react.

Should we have a separate forum for this kind of discussion?

You haven't said what rifle you are talking about shooting. Hopefully you can shoot what you already have/want to...maybe you will have to shoot ligher loads or get a "softer" shooting caliber
Robert

RLV III: I have a nice setup of guns but I mostly use the 9.3x62 and 6.5x55 when hunting in Europe. The 6.5 is quite heavy so that one should be safe but I really don´t feel any recoil from the 9.3 either...

Thanks for all the support!

C

Oh crap do I know what your going through. I'm having my MRI friday as well. I've been off work for two weeks already. My left arm goes totally numb. At first the doc that I had a stroke so they did a MRI of brain monday. Now they want to look at my neck. My wife and I are booked with J P Klienhans for next June and I've stopped shooting for now. Good luck with your test. Jim

Don' shoot. Don't do anything that makes it hurt.

I went throught this in the summer of 2006 - it took 3 months for the bad pain to let up. 3 more months for the numbness in my fingers, hand, and shoulder to go away.

My advice - do NOT take prescription pain drugs - they will only allow you to hurt the nerve more by sleeping wrong or doing some physical activity you shouldn't be doing.

Seems like quite a few of have, or have had, this "syndrome". It´s nice hearing that the symptoms actually can go away by themselves and that surgery isn´t always required.

I´m booked with TG Safaris for next Juna and I´m taking the family with me...I might even go without a gun...

cewe,

Just to add my 2c: I too have had similar problems. It started in the period that I did some load development for a .458 Watt and a .300 Weath Mag. Never had any real treatment, but selling the big boomer and installing a mercury filled recoil reducer on my .300WM coincided with the improvement. Now I can shoot whatever I want to without any problems, but I still stay away from lots of big-bang shooting!

Best wishes for your speedy repair and hope you make the correct decisions about what to do.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I feel your pain....since 1992. In 2002 I also managed to wreck my lower back in a similar fashion so I now have a numb left arm and an intermittently numb left leg. No herniated disks "just" bulging, two in each location.

Didn't have any surgeries. For the 10 years I had the neck problem only it may have messed with my sleeping but it never messed with my hunting or shooting. That said the the largest caliber I shot was a 375 plus shotguns with no problems. My lower back problem has however taken me out of the game because consistent walking distances being a big problem.

All I do now is take NSAIDs when the pain bumps up and visit a chiropractor once a month (or as needed). I once stopped going to the chiropractor as I thought it wasn't doing anything for me...........BIG MISTAKE!

Looks like I´m in good company.

Getting older has it´s downsides, the main one being health issues. I´ve treid to stay in at least semi good shape but obviously my genetics are working against me -I have loads of realtives with autoimmune sicknesses, osteoarthiritis etc.

I can´t see myself not hunting or shooting, it´s a part of my lifestyle and I can´t see myself not going hunting.

The picture is just not there.

Tomorrow is D-day, the MRI should clear things up.

I hope.

Hey guys,
I damaged 4 discs in my neck 9-10yrs ago(topped out against the roof of an old Cat dump truck). Had one fusion immediately and the other 3 were left alone because of the probability of the loss of movement. Everything was great,just like normal and back to work. I hurt my neck again in 2004 further damaging the disc below the fusion and am now looking at a disc replacement(if I'm eligable,if not,another fusion) due to the increasing symptoms discussed by y'all. Even as I am now I have had no problem shooting high recoiling rifles(7.5lb .300,6.75lb .30-06).
I had lower back surgery last Oct.after 20yrs of a Chiropracter(he kept me going!)and 10yrs of meds and steroid shots but it finally wore out. Had fusions done but with metal to hold things in place. I was released in July to do what I want. I can't work due to the physical requirements of my work and the long hours of sitting in equipment. I can still do nearly everything I could before but not anywhere near as long. Hardly any pain and no"back goin out"problems!
The main reason for me telling y'all this is to give one MAJOR piece of info/advice and that is if you've never smoked(I've never)your chances of a total recovery is immense and if you smoke now QUIT. My neurosurgeon(this guy is GOOD!)does alot of research for various groups including the NIH and FDA. He's told me they're still finding out just how much smoking inhibits the bodies ability to heal especially bone.
The advancements made in spinal cord surgery procedures just in in the past 10yrs,such as disc replacements instead of fusions,are giving patients a better chance at a higher quality of life than ever before. I hope this gives y'all that are dealing with these problems some piece of mind.

til later

Between Dr.C and Brett you got some good advice.
If a chiropractor can't fix you in 2 mos he can't fix you and you need to see an orthopod.
If you are not shooting big boomers it shouldn't bother you. I've had the problem for years and just talked to a neurologist Monday. He said "Don't do things that make it worse until you can get an MRI".

Fellas, I just got home from my second visit to my Chiropractor for this same thing. As for those mentioning lower back/leg trouble the same guy fixed me up in that regard two years ago. I know many don't put much faith in them and they can't cure everything but I've learned there is a lot "modern medicine" could learn by opening their minds to the Chiropractor's art!!! I had a non-operable lumbar injury that had me in constant pain for over eight years. An intensive series of treatment with the Chiropractor for four months has had me pain free for two years next month! When my present neck/shoulder/arm problem cropped up I didn't even bother going to the medical doctor, who'd merely prescribe whatever pain pills the drug salesmen are pushing this month. Give it a try before you agree to let somebody start cutting!

cewe

There is some excellent advice on this forum. I would stress that no matter how the MRI/surgery situation turns out you make a commitment (if you already haven't) to exercise, eat healthy, and don't smoke. If you can keep the weight off it will improve your osteoarthritis and its progression and help relieve stress and strain on the muscles attaching to the cervical spine. Taking care of yourself has big rewards even if you are already having problems. Strong muscles protect joints and keep hunters tolerant of recoil!

You are spot on about surgery. They are much more conservative today then they were in the past about who should and shouldn't get surgery. I would still exhaust all conservative options although it sounds like you are doing a good job of that. The rate of failure for low back surgeries is 10-40% depending on the study. I don't remember seeing figures for cervical surgeries, but I would guess them to be at least similar. I don't remember if you stated who you were looking at to do the surgery, but if it were me I would only consider a neurosurgeon and look for the best at that who often performs that same surgery.

Have patients. If it is a disc issue it may well get better with time. Discs are highly comprised of water and as we age (40s, 50s, 60s, +) our discs desiccate (dry up). As they desiccate disc injuries become less common and previous disc injuries tend to abate. One unfortunate thing that may start to happen is that problems can arise from degenerative changes to the discs and other articular (joint) structures. So disc problem may get better over time and then other problems start due to the disc falling apart and changes to surrounding structures because the disc is falling apart.

Good luck with the MRI!

Brett

Your absolutely right oupa! My Chiropractor(who is the only one that the med group I deal with will take references from and considers it physical therapy)told me 30yrs ago that the more my lower back goes out and is put back in the weaker it becomes. Sorry Dr.Duc,I cannot agree with your 2 mnth time frame.

til later

Thank you for the endorsement Dr. Duc. I would agree with you completely except I might give chiropractic a longer try than 2 months if you see sustained improvements in the first 2 months. If you see improvements and then plateau in improvement then I would reduce frequency of treatment to see if improvement is permanent and if not what frequency of care is necessary to maintain the improvement. Some things can not be fixed by anyone, but can be kept at levels that make life much easier and more rewarding. Sometimes you don't get rid of the pain, but you help patients be more functional. Hopefully you reduce pain and increase function and everyone wins! Nothing feels better than having someone tell you how great you are and how much you improved their quality of life! Except sex and dangerous game hunting that is!

Brett

Brett: Thanks for bringing back the basics -DG hunting and sex!


Thanks for all the support, let´s see what happens tomorrow.

Life is too short and too precious to waste a minute of it worry about such things..Go for it, go to Africa and do what you want to do..

I am 73 years old, and most days I hate to get up and I never feel like roping, but I do it at least 3 times a week, and I hunt every year..I have more aches and pains than I can count including degenerative discs, everybody has degenerating everything at my age..

We have a saying in my world and its "Cowboy up and you get a five dollar fine for whineing!"
Go for the gold and never look back.

I agree 110% Ray. If you want it bad enough you'll do it. I'm 60 and have lived with pain the better part of thirty yrs. I believe the only thing that kept me going was that the family got use to eating regular. Really though ,I just got use to it until May a yr ago when I just couldn't straighten up. The medical people got me going again though and now I've got things to do.

til later,
Earl

Listen to the docs on this thread and listen to YOUR doc.
Don't go to a chiropractor.

I had a very similar injury after shooting over 450 pistol rounds in one day in a tactical training class. (Not recommended.)

Neurologist, pills, exercises and time (4+months) and it is finally going away. Shooting the bigger bang sticks makes it feel better, although I haven't touched off that damn .416 in a while.

'Hope the MRI results are good and GOOD HUNTING. God Bless.

Cewes ,

20 yrs ago I had C5 and C6 fusion done .
I have never let anything stop me . I shoot the big stuff. I have been from Alaska to Africa . Once in a while it does hurt still but no numbness. Last year I fell at work and Bulged two more in the middle of my sholders. I have a Mule Deer Hunt planed in November and I am Going. I plan not to get Cut if I don't have To. Sometimes you Learn to live with Pain , everyone is Diffrent.

First time I went to my Chiropractor was in 1981. Felt like I was at the witch doctor's. That was 27yrs ago and to this day he is my friend.

til later

I forgot to make a statement in my introduction: Nothing will stop me from hunting. One way or another I will hunt.

And I´m booked for SA in June -09 and I will go.

If worst comes to worst I can always use my 6.5x55 this fall, it weighs quite a bit so recoil should be negligble.

I had a crush # of C5 and C6. They were not fused as part of the treatment, but I still get intermittent paresthesia and stabbing type pains both sides.

My Doctors were very helpful about my hunting and shooting, but both the GP and the surgeon suggested limiting exposure to recoil.
On bad days, I use the .22 and 223. On good days, the 375 H&H gets a run.
For general use, I settled on the 7x57 to do pretty much everything.
My shotgunning has suffered a bit, with the 12g relegated to occasional use only,
The 28g is really getting a workout...

Best of luck with your problem.

cewe,first off,good luck with your MRI. After I had my first MRI I was treated with medication and steroid injections before they decided on surgery. When that time came I was ready(couldn't even hold my head up straight). When I woke up ALL symptoms were gone. I was home within 24hrs from the time I went to the hospital. It's worth it! I'm looking at some type of surgery procedure on my neck again(had an MRI last mnth). I'm expecting to hear from the surgeon any day. I've got the same symptoms as you plus pain down my left arm and into the left part of my chest. I'm READY again! To me it's just that easy. GOOD LUCK!!

til later,
Earl

There seems to be a slight theme running here. Use of heavy(ish) recoiling rifles seems to correlate to the problems.

Cewe - is the main thing to shoot and to hunt or to shoot and to hunt with fine rifles? Reason I ask is that in your place I'd break out the 22rf for practice (I've yet to meet ANYONE who didn't improve from 22rf practice!) and for hunting get yourself a sound moderator on either your 6.5 or if you can't bring yourself to thread it invest in a temporary moderated rifle. Recoil is cut in half and with some care a rifle can be made nice to carry.

Sorry to hear about your troubles/pain. Hopefully you have a full recovery and quick!