Has anyone seen the September issue of the NRA's American Rifleman?

They have a substantial article on numerous heads of game shot by multiple hunters--all with the Winchester XP3.

On p. 55 is shown 13 recovered bullets, detailing the weight, expanded diameter, and range at impact of each. Many more bullets were not recovered from game, mostly due to complete penetration.

What is somewhat surprising is that bullets #2, 10, &11 did not significantly expand.

Each of these non-expanded bullets impacted either hip or shoulder bone of Impala, Gemsbok, or Eland at ranges from 55-80 yards (and perhaps impact velocties in excess of 2600 fps?).

What do you think?

friar

Something that I have already seen and experienced by my own.

On Roe deer even. Too much velocity and worse expansion of the bullet

Post Scriptum: GS of course (GS=Generally speaking)

Friarmier,

Can you post expansion and retained weights for us?

On the ones that did not expand, does it appear they may have hit the animal tipped sideways?

Maybe it hit an interveneing limb or bush and was not point forward? Or tipped emmediately after impact?

You will see the bearing surface worn smooth if it did.

Otherwise I suspect the hollow point behind the poly tip got plugged up w somehting and prevented expansion?

Andy

I read the report a couple of times as I have been a fan of Winchester ammo. I came away from the article unconvinced and not sure if I want to try this ammo. I switched to Federal Premium with Barnes or TBBC's a couple of years ago and really like those bullets on all types of game.

The article led me to think that these guys were fairly poor shots and that the bullets were not very consistent. If I have read this wrong, please correct me.

I am sticking with my current ammo for now.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
The article led me to think that these guys were fairly poor shots and that the bullets were not very consistent. If I have read this wrong, please correct me.

This was pretty much my impression. I'll just stick with TSXs or Interbonds for now. Oh yeah, I'll try to shoot animals right in the vitals too.

Every animal needed 5 shots to drop it from the sounds of it! I think the Eland was 7 shots!

Hello everybody,

Been a little busy here...burning the midnight oil!

Maybe the best description is to quote the article in large part; here goes:

"On average, the 15 .30-caliber, 180-grain XP3s recovered from African game retained 87 percent of their weight and expanded to .5092 inch. A lineup of 13 [sic] of the recovered bullets includes, from L. to R.

"1. gemsbok shot in the chest, 176 yards--bullet expanded to .623 inch, weighed 179 grains;

*2. impala shot in hip at 60 yards--bullet expanded to .405 inch, weighed 150.9 grains [as I look at the
picture of this bullet, its tip appears to be only slightly expanded; the bullet is bent mildly at the
mid-section];

3. zebra shot in shoulder at 300 yards--.54 inch, 164.9 grains;

4. eland shot though shoulder at 60 yards--.47 inch, 150.1 grains;

5. eland shot through chest at 50 yards--.432 inch, 151.2 inch [sic] (bullet penetrated 3 feet before
stopping in ribs;

6. hartebeest shot in hip at 40 yards--.52 inch, 158.8 grains;

7. gemsbok shot through shoulder at 10 yards--.483 inch, 150 grains;

8. wildebeest shot through brisket at 10 yards--.53 inch, 158.9 grains;

9. gemsbok shto through ribs at 70 yards--.585 inch, 148.3 grains;

*10. gemsbok shot through shoulder at 80 yards--.385 inch, 164.5 grains [as I look at the picture of this
bullet, its tip appears to be only slightly expanded; I cannot discern any bending of bullet.];

*11. eland shot through hip at 55 yards--.375 inch, 150.2 grains [as I look at the picture of this
bullet, its tip appears to be only slightly expanded; this bullet looks more contorted than #10, though
apparently not so much as #2.];

12. same eland shot rear-to-front at 50 yards--.66 inch, 148.9 grains;

13. same eland shot broadside at 100 yards--.52 inch, 165.2 grains."

from American Hunter, September 2006, p. 55, inset text w/pics 1-13 beneath text

*bullets 2, 10, & 11 appear "non-expanded." All other bullets display expansion comperable to Winchester's advertisements.

10 hunters participated in the testing, apparently all of whom shot a .300 WSM in Browning A-bolts.

Together, they killed "28 animals--from a 15-pound steenbok to 1,500-pound eland."

The author closes with a comment not too different from what a couple fellows here have observed:

"Remember that other factor in killing shots? Bullet placement. Do your part. Winchester engineers did theirs."

Hope this helps! Sorry I can't link a page--can someone else?

friar

Friar,

Thank you very much for taking the time to copy all that information.

It sounds like three bullets at least tipped and did not expand because of it.

Close range too. Might have hit brush or bullet may be too long to stabilize, though youd think a WSM would do it.

Think I will stick with my bonded North Forks. Lead always expands.

Thanks again!

Andy

The article is in the American Hunter magazine for September 2006, and is labeled a bullet test. One of the hunters was Greg Rodriguez, who posts here. Greg can comment on the shooting skills.

From the article and sidebars, the hunters all used Browning rifles in .300 WSM with the Winchester factory ammo and the XP3 bullet. I expect this was a sponsored hunt, although that detail is not given.

I have shot several animals with the FailSafe that the XP3 replaces, and the few I recovered retain 100% (they are .308 Win 180 grain). The development discussion of the XP3 said it was supposed to be a cheaper bullet than the FailSafe.

I notice the XP3 bullets "slug up" in the rear core section: I don't like to see that. I would rather the shank stay in its original shape to help the bullet penetrate in a straight line. Winchester claims the slugging up is a feature of the bullet's penetration. Well, I like to say if you can't fix it, feature it.

jim

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
Has anyone seen the September issue of the NRA's American Rifleman?

They have a substantial article on numerous heads of game shot by multiple hunters--all with the Winchester XP3.

On p. 55 is shown 13 recovered bullets, detailing the weight, expanded diameter, and range at impact of each. Many more bullets were not recovered from game, mostly due to complete penetration.

What is somewhat surprising is that bullets #2, 10, &11 did not significantly expand.

Each of these non-expanded bullets impacted either hip or shoulder bone of Impala, Gemsbok, or Eland at ranges from 55-80 yards (and perhaps impact velocties in excess of 2600 fps?).

What do you think?

friar

Sounds just like Barnes X-Bullets

quote:

Originally posted by HunterJim:
Winchester claims the slugging up is a feature of the bullet's penetration. Well, I like to say if you can't fix it, feature it.

jim

Kind of like "love the one you're with," no?

I've not shot at paper with this bullet, much less at game. Their .270 Win offering is enticing, but like Andy says, lead always expands, and A-frames shoot awefully well out of my featherweight.

If Greg chooses to comment on the hunt, that would be fascinating reading! I personally won't second guess how well they all shot (though obviously some shot were misplaced for one reason or another); lots of crazy things can happen in the time between pulling the trigger and the bullet arriving at target, and I've screwed up more than one shot on game in my time!

Good luck this fall everyone! You can feel it in the air!

friar

My impression from the article was fairly poor shooting along with poor bullet performance. Almost none were one-shot kills. They would have had more one shot kills using a cheap Sierra or Hornady for sure.