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I'm not personally interested -- I do not own a pump or lever action rifle, and have no interest in doing so -- but I wonder how widely rifles of these types are used in Africa. Everyone here writes about bolt action rifles. But there are sufficiently powerful rifles for African hunting made in pump and lever action too, such as the Remington pumps in .270, .308, 30-06 and .35 Whelen, and the Model 95 Winchester lever action rifles (and the Browning clone) in 30-06, as well as the Browning BLR rifles in .270, .308, and even 7mm magnum. Anybody use those? "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | ||
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They are not widely used at all. Historically, pumps and lever actions are an American invention and most African gun culture is steeped in European traditions. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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You see a few pumps in RSA, where most of the hunting is for plains game. The chamberings you mention as being available in pumps and lever guns are not suitable to dangerous game hunting, and the fact that Mike stated, these type rifles are not treditional in the game fields of Africa. Lately some folks have expressed thier desire to use lever rifles chambered for 45-70 for Cape buffalo, and some have gotten by with this risky undertaking, but that rifle/cartridge combo is no more suitable for the "BITE-BACKS" than the ones you mention here! One that is an option is the BLR re-barreled, and chambered for 458 Win Mag, has some merit! The pump, will never be common in any part of Africa,because it is not available in the most used chamberings! The lever is gaining in popularity with some from the USA, and are seen in the game ranches, of RSA more, and more! These type rifles are only popular in the Eastern USA, for the most part, and are generally rejected, even in the Wastern USA, so I don't see a bright future for them in Africa! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Of course, TR and Kermit used Winchester 95s and Charles Cottar, the first American professional hunter in Africa, used lever actions back before WWII, but hardly anyone uses them these days and for good reason. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Good afternoon all! The lever gun question seems to surface every so often (particularly in reference to dangerous game), with similar feedback each time from two separate camps… One camp hasn’t done it yet but thinks it’d be the new death-ray; the other camp hasn’t done it either but prophesies a slow painful death for any that attempt it. I have done it once (in ’02; a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in…gasp!….45-70) so I feel that I can speak with some small measure of authority. I make no claims to be an expert, either expressed or implied…I’ll merely relate my own experience. I carried that saddlegun over to Zim for one reason and one reason only; to hunt leopard with hounds. That type of hunt may present shots from 100 yards to tag-you’re-it distance on a fast moving spottie. A shotgun might get the nod up real close, but becomes useless as the range opens up. Conversely, your pet scoped rifle is a winner way out there, but dicey up close. I decided that a big levergun with a ghost ring heaving a big soft slug at moderate velocity would cover both scenarios and provide faster follow-up shots than any bolt gun I own. I guess I “got away with it†because that spottie is on my wall. Sorry, no tales of him charging me after being wounded, nor shooting clear through the beast to slay a couple of lined-up buffalo on the far side either. Would’ve taken a warthog with it during the trip if circumstances had allowed, but the bride’s .270 was a better answer when an ungulube volunteered. For this particular application the lever gun is (by my lights) the right tool for the job. For plains game, a bolt gun in the calibers you mention is a far better proposition. For the heavy stuff, well…that answer begins with the .375 and goes up from there. BTW, didn't Cottar cash in when a rhino took him to task for his choice of the Win 95/.405 combo? Hmmm, very instructive... FWIW, "my" Marlin now belongs to a fellow Cowboy Action shooter, its job is done on the Dark Continent as far as I'm concerned. Anyway, them’s the cards I’m holding…good hunting to each of you! Mark DRSS "I always take care to fire into the nearest hillside and, lacking that, into darkness." - the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson | |||
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Wow Mark, a well worded reply - regardless of the issue at hand. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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In 2002 I killed a 9'4" costal brown bear @ 60 yds with one shot of ...you guessed it a good old 45-70 in Marlin's 1895SSand 405 gr JSP Shot him in the lungs tight up behind the shoulder. He dropped and died where he stood not knowing what hit him. Regardless of which side of the big salt water you're on big, mean, nasty means the same thing1 A .458 dia 400 gr+ bullet at 2200FPS under 100 yds will and has killed anything in the world. remember back to the 1800's the 45/70 was THE gun to shoot dangerous game with using BLACK POWDER. Viewpoints change on bullets and calibers ie., it wasn't that many years ago the 270 was THE elk caliber in the USA, somefeel today it should be kept for use on smaller deer. ....go figure SP | |||
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My hunting partner took his Remington Model 760 pump carbine in 30-06 twice to Zimbabwe hunting plainsgame. It functioned as well as any other 30-06. | |||
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I brought this same topic up a couple of days ago RE 45-70 for Buff. Given where I'm hunting this year (Zim) and the latent restrictions on the 45-70....I'll be taking along an 1886 in 50EX (50-110) and should the PH allow it, I'll take a Buff with it. Otherwise I'll have to use one of my SOS (same old...) bolt-guns / double. I've done the math and this caliber (50EX) will far exceed what is needed to bring down the bigg'n. Thanks for the good chat on this topic, Jeff | |||
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Most here seem to agree that a 35 Whelen is a good plains game caliber...that being the case I think I will take my new Rem 7600 Pump 35 Whelen to Namibia and RSA and just see what it can do. I have already done it with the 30/06 and 9.3 x 62 cartridges in bolt guns so...I can't see that a pump will be any hinderance provided the rifle will group well. I grew up on a pump 870 in 16 ga. so pumping something is natural for me. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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It took Teddy 11 rounds of .405 to bring down a rhino, which is not too impressive. Most of the big stuff Teddy took was shot with his Holland & Holland 500/465 (I think that was the caliber). | |||
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I don't think you will find Teddy was the greatest shot in the world to start with and did you ever see the thickness of the lens in his glasses? Not taking up for the 405 but maybe it was not all the calibers fault. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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This is a question of personal preference -use what you like as long as it´s adequate for the task. Personally I wouldn´t use a 45-70 for buff as most experts advice against it. I´d take that into consideration before making my choice. | |||
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Mrlexma, After reading some of TR and Kermits stuff,it became apparant that they wounded way more animals than they killed and Cottor got killed because his lever gun didn't kill the Rhino with good hits I might add.. Just some wothless trivia to fire up the lever fans, however I am sure the quality of the bullets had more to do with all the above than did the caliber, at least up to a point...Then the fact that Teddy was half blind and a lousy shot could be problamatic...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Yes, indeed. Bad bullets, bad eyesight and bad shooting are definitely a bad combination. Come to think of it, good shooting with good eyesight and bad bullets ain't much better! His Holland & Holland did handle most of the big stuff, though. BTW, 500grains, it was a .500/.450. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Again the origenal post was a question!
The answer to that question is the lack of suitable chamberings, and little exposier to this American type of rifle, is the reason! You may see one every ten years, and that will usually be in the hands of an American, usually from the Eastern USA! Why does everyone want to start a fight everytime one of these things is posted. Nobody has any axe to grind on the use of pumps, or lever actions in Africa. If the two types are your choice then don't miss a good oppertunity to do your thing. As far as plains game is concerened, the cartridges normally chambered in these type rifle is just fine. However, if DG is on the minue, there are far better choices, IMO! I don't know how much plainer I can say it! In the final analisis, I say use what ever you want, as long as it's legal, it's your Safari! BYE! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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There was an article in African Hunter recently about this. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Also,lets remember that ole Teddy was suffering from eye damage, as he hd just been in a boxing match before going to Africa, and complained of his eye sight being off. Harry,if you take the 35W, what loads would you use,have heard the Pump doesn't shoot well with the heaiver slugs. Stay Alert,Stay Alive Niet geschoten is altijd mis Hate of America is the defeat position of failed individuals and the failing state | |||
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Yes Ganyana wrote an article in African Hunter on the history of lever actions in Africa. His article claims they were quite widespread in earlier days. | |||
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Dave James, I have no idea what the rifle will do right now as I have yet to fire it or scope it. My thoughts at the moment are to scope it with a Leupold 2.5 to 8 with the German 4a crosshair and then take the various factory ammo and see what groups good in it. I will not be hunting anything larger than kudu/gemsbok and I have already taken them with my favorite '06 and 180 Nosler Partitions. I just think it will be fun to hunt with a pump...we took a Browning Mod 81 lever in 7/08 to Namibia in 2000 and it did fine with Nosler Partitions 140 grn. Worse comes to worse I will load up some Partitions or Barnes Triple Shock and see how they do. If the standard Rem. ammo will shoot well...I most likely will use it. You can borrow money but you can not borrow time. Go hunting with your family. | |||
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