Dear gentlemen i would like your opinion on weapons training for AFRICAN safari ,PG,or DG.
Miminum training,schools,instructors,how to train with a ouble ,how with a bolt action.
Books recomended,and please how often do you train.
We have been chating on this item with several PHs included DR,Don Heath on a recent hunt in Poland and we see a decreasing level of the shooters each year and in some cases a great interest in trophies and nature -this isnt too bad-but a very low level of shooting techniques.
Juan

If training was available I'd be too tight to pay for it.

Familiarity with your rifle and practise are what make a good shot.

Before my last trip I had the luxury of visiting a range almost every day for six weeks prior to departure. I first of all sighted in for 200 yards with my Mauser 9.3x62 and 1-4x20 scope. I then shot paper at ranges of 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 and 300 to determine the actual fall of shot. I did not rely on printed ballistics.

I then placed old cans and milk jugs full of water at all those ranges and practised shooting from different positions. Some prone, sitting, kneeling, off hand standing, but mostly standing off shooting sticks.

I made my own shooting sticks out of three x 1" round dowel lashed together.

http://www.ropeworks.biz/reader/tripod.pdf

I ended up expending approx 500-600 rounds in practise. I also learnt to treat all empty shells as expendable and would only pick up emptys prior to leaving the range. Concentrate on the immediate reload whilst the rifle is still at the shoulder and try not to lose your sight picture. Do not worry about recovering your brass.

I can not help you in preparation with a double rifle.

Have fun and practise, practise, practise.

What do you think about MOUNTY KALOGERAS school.
Or GUNSITE safari prep course.
Do you shoot or hunt with double shotgun just to get familiar with your double.

To get more proficient with a double rifle I used a double trigger shotgun for sporting clays. When I did not have to think about moving my trigger finger to the second trigger was I comfortable. After a long time shooting single triggers it took a long time and I'm not positive it ever truly became second nature. I always felt trigger control was the key to good shooting. I do a lot of practice with a full sized Anshutz 22 sporter. I shoot at metallic silhouette swingers and go through about a thousand rounds a season.

I really don't think you need "special" training for an African safari, just go the the range, shoot your rifle, get off the bench and shoot from different positions. Learning to shoot off of sticks helps. Most shots are 100 yds or less. If you can hit a paper plate at 100 yds, you will be fine. Be comfortable with your weapon of choice.

Lots of people go to Africa miss and wound just ask the PH's on the side.

www.ftwoutfitters.com SAAM Training. Precision,African and pistol. Also double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
If training was available I'd be too tight to pay for it.

Familiarity with your rifle and practise are what make a good shot.

Before my last trip I had the luxury of visiting a range almost every day for six weeks prior to departure. I first of all sighted in for 200 yards with my Mauser 9.3x62 and 1-4x20 scope. I then shot paper at ranges of 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 and 300 to determine the actual fall of shot. I did not rely on printed ballistics.

I then placed old cans and milk jugs full of water at all those ranges and practised shooting from different positions. Some prone, sitting, kneeling, off hand standing, but mostly standing off shooting sticks.

I made my own shooting sticks out of three x 1" round dowel lashed together.

http://www.ropeworks.biz/reader/tripod.pdf

I ended up expending approx 500-600 rounds in practise. I also learnt to treat all empty shells as expendable and would only pick up emptys prior to leaving the range. Concentrate on the immediate reload whilst the rifle is still at the shoulder and try not to lose your sight picture. Do not worry about recovering your brass.

I can not help you in preparation with a double rifle.

Have fun and practise, practise, practise.

Code4

that sounds like some pretty intense prep! How did it work for you? Pretty good I'd guess....

For DG you can always try set up what we do at BASA. See:

BASA Shoot 1

BASA Shoot 2

On my first buff hunt, I had a friend who owned 300 acres with a 200 yd range on it. I would walk about five miles carrying my rifle, binos ,and other gear I intended to hunt with hand then make a few standing shots from about a hundred yards at propane tanks with big black dots on them.

That was after I put about 600 rounds or so through the rifle at the county range at fifty yards offhand standing. Felt perfectly comfortable with the rifle.

Shot at the county range the second trip because the land was no longer available. About 600 rounds offhand standing. that time, also.

Kept me busy at the loading bench, but it paid off handsomely.

A concussion suffered in Africa two days before the second hunt hurt my initial shooting very badly, but by the time the hunt was over, I was back up to snuff.

Shoot enough so that handling and shooting your rifle requires no concious thought. Training is everything, and knowledge of your caliber's ballistics is also mandatory.

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
I really don't think you need "special" training for an African safari, just go the the range, shoot your rifle, get off the bench and shoot from different positions. Learning to shoot off of sticks helps. Most shots are 100 yds or less. If you can hit a paper plate at 100 yds, you will be fine. Be comfortable with your weapon of choice.

+1
For PG bring the rifle you use every time you hunt deer.99% of African Pro Hunters have thier own sticks ranging from Bi-pod to tripod systems made from dowels or reeds.
PRACTICE SHOOTING OFF OF SIMILAR AT THE RANGE.
Keep in mind these are free hand aids and NOT mobile bench rests!
practice up to 200yds standing up straight with the bi-pod/tripod supporting your stock.Dont lean on them as they are not a bench rest.
If you can hit a 8"x8" at that distance then great you can kill any PG.
the buck fever and the shortness of breath
. . . well that your gonna have to kill with experience
have fun
dave

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Palos:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Code4:

Code4

that sounds like some pretty intense prep! How did it work for you? Pretty good I'd guess....

For DG you can always try set up what we do at BASA. See:

BASA Shoot 1

BASA Shoot 2

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=5#Post137292

It worked very well but I did get sick of reloading.

never underestimate the use of a 22 rimfire.
loads of cheap fun shooting at the range from all positions at all sort of targets from old 12 ga hulls to pop cans.
Offhand, sitting, kneeling, off sticks and prone.
Using these little rifles promote good muscle memory, encourage follow through and discourage the tendency to flinch.
Centering a 9" pie paper plate out to 50yds consistently does wonders for the confidence.
( 9" is to me a good rule of thumb for the boiler room on most species)
Then start emulating the practice with the big rifle at greater distances, no more that 3-5 shots from each position, and if you need to improve, go back to the 22.

quote:

Originally posted by Elton Rambin:
Lots of people go to Africa miss and wound just ask the PH's on the side.

www.ftwoutfitters.com SAAM Training. Precision,African and pistol. Also double rifle.

I haven't visited the ranges but have seen a video of the place and it looks fantastic..... certainly the closest thing to hunting in Africa that I've ever seen.

buy a pellet gun and shoot it every day 4 times 20 shots shoot your big bore once a week min 20 shots shoot the 22 at the same time you shoot the big bore 40 shots mixed in this will keep you honest humble and accurate SHOOT GUNS SHOOT A LOT SHOOT ON STICKS-- SHOOT--

Visit the SAAM SAFARI website. This is the best training facility for the hunter heading to Africa on the planet, period... From the course, the classroom, and the instructors, SAAM SAFARI is the best investment of time guys like us can make in our hunting future.

Dear jaegers i teach at Juans farm ,rifle and revolver im an ex infantry officer ,and he began with air and airsoft ,go to 22 and then to your rifle ,after that began shooting on practical excercises dismounting fast from a 4x4,shooting long distance ,and contact distance ,we teach mostly army personnel and security personnel but lately international hunters are taking courses.MFISCHER

Two things that really helped me were one dry firing the rifle and especially pausing videos of the animal to be hunted in different shot positions and practicing shooting it. Two take the rifle out and actually shoot it. If you go groundhog, pig, deer, ect hunting take it with you. Carry it, handle it, and shoot it. Practice with it as well shooting at varying distances from different positions.

Brett

quote:

What do you think about MOUNTY KALOGERAS school.
Or GUNSITE safari prep course.

I've hunted on 9 DG safaris and find it imperative to go to Gunsite or train with a Pro, like Il Ling New, prior to each safari. Not only does it put pressure on me that I cannot duplicate at the range myself, it gives me the advantage of having a skilled person evaluating my shooting and/or bad habits. The moving/charging targets available at Gunsite aren't available at my local range.

I usually put about 600 rounds through my .308 for practice and 50-100 rds and zero in my .375 bolt.

I know the costs of the training is pricy, but added in to the entire costs of a DG safari, it is well worth it. I worry more about my shooting than my trophies...but I'm a woman, what can I say!!!!

Best regards, D. Nelson

quote:

Originally posted by 500nitro:
never underestimate the use of a 22 rimfire.
loads of cheap fun shooting at the range from all positions at all sort of targets from old 12 ga hulls to pop cans.
Offhand, sitting, kneeling, off sticks and prone.
Using these little rifles promote good muscle memory, encourage follow through and discourage the tendency to flinch.
Centering a 9" pie paper plate out to 50yds consistently does wonders for the confidence.
( 9" is to me a good rule of thumb for the boiler room on most species)
Then start emulating the practice with the big rifle at greater distances, no more that 3-5 shots from each position, and if you need to improve, go back to the 22.

That's another thing I do to prepare, bricks of 22 rimfire ammo are cheap, and I run through a bunch of it, rather than use up the more expensive loads.

Also, the dry firing; I put some of the big game hunting videos on the TV, leopards, buf, etc., and practice dry firing. I don't pause the video, but wait for the animal to get into position. I use one of those dummy rounds that protects your firing pin. Do not try this with a live round.

It's really refreshing (and I hope,encouraging to all you PHs out there who have to face DG with a client) that a prospective hunter to Africa wants to prepare himself. Juanpozzi ranges from a double to a bolt action in his post so it's hard to give specific advice. (I'm assuming it's DG he wants) First - back to fundamentals - practice, practice, practice. Shoot a rifle you are not afraid of and that will drop DG until you are confident enough to handle it almost unconsciously (as you are looking at the DG) In my case, it was a buff and I had fired perhaps over 1500 rounds from a 375 before I ever saw Africa) Good luck,Juan, you have the right attitude to make PHs love you! (My PH told me real horror stories of people who never prepared at all for a DG hunt. I even accused him of exaggerating -and found out he wasn't.Fact.) It may not seem like you're getting anywheres, Juan, in the hours spent in boring rifle practice (I'm 80 and spent many a boring hour on a hot sun range with a rifle but it does pay off, believe me)

If everyone did the same as D. Nelson, the PH's would certainly not have anything to complain about. That is probably more training than anyone else here does and is certainly dedicated. The minimum amount of training sort of depends on what you are hunting and what your experience level is.
If you are not 100% proficient with your firearm, you are foolish. For me this means I only hunt with my DG rifle for the year prior to the safari and practice with shooting sticks since they are not part of my kit in NA.

Training is very important ! especially for someone who does not shoot regularly and is going on safari where there will be long range plains game shooting and / or dangerous game. For my safaris I train for months but physicaly and at the range.
A 22 rifle and about 1000 rounds of ammo will get you into the trigger well and will train your muscle memory for setting up on sticks and preparing the gun for the shot ( taking off safety and aming at target quickly) I usually start my training by sighting in all the rifles I will use on safari. Then I practice shooting some rounds with them followed by shooting 50 rounds of 22. I use sticks and will shoot the 22 at 50 yds. at an orange 3 " or 4 " bull which has a thick black line coming down from its center simulating the forleg of the animal. I follow the blackline up to the target and let the round go as soon as it looks right, each time taking off the safety and getting target smoothly but quickly. This will build familairity with you rifle as well as the trigger and doing it in a quick manner that will
help in case of the odd but necessary quick shot. Extend the range with the large bores as time goes on ands shoot offhand and from sitting and prone in case you need to do that.
It has payed off for me with excellent trophies and clean kills. You will most likely enjoy the training but for sure you will leave a positive impression on your PH. Enjoy your hgunt - the more you put into it the greater the return will be.

Before my plains game hunt I shot every weekend for 6 months 30-40 rounds through my 375. At a friends ranch I put up an 18" steel disk hanging from a rope that I would shoot. I would get it swinging and then see how times I could hit it in a row out to 200 yards from different positions.

I Practice with a 22, and 17HMR on our ground squirels (known locally as sagerats) I walk the fields, vineyards and orchards and shoot off of sticks, prone or lean on a trellis or tree. I also spend time on the range shooting the rifles I am taking on safari. I have shot several hundred rounds through both my 30-06 and 416 rem mag that I am taking to Zim in about a week.
Be familiar with the rifles you are going to take, but practice, practice, practice.

GERRYPETERS375 as you must know i guide some hunters a year mostly hogs and wing shooting but buffalo -real wild water buffalo in CORRIENTES swamps-is my second big game trophy ,lately i saw a degrading of the shooting techniques -the same is seeing in AFRICA ,as i have many friends there that are PHs.But hear this horror historie,a client began to shoot a big female harafballi buffalo both of us were in the waist deep water ,he injured it badly with abdominal shots the cow began to escape ,he put at least 4 shots of 375 on it and then began to reload,the cow tired of being shot return and charged us this guy began to make cliks with our mauser 1909 and cycled the bolt very fast without really shooting ,HE TOLD ME DONT SHOOT OR ILL NOT PAY YOU,ok what a problem he was out of ammo -all in the water-so i handed him my MARLIN GUIDE GUN 4570 with garrets ,NO THE COW WAS VERY NEAR and he didnt shhot yet so i scream to RODOLF give me the shotgun -a browning silver camo loaded with slugs-and at 5 meters i put 5 fast shot in head neck ,and one more in the heart When i asked this guy what happens he told me he never fired a lever action in his life-THE INCREDIBLE THING WAS THAT THIS GUY HAS THE BIGGER TROPHY ROOM I SAW IN MY LIFE-Juan
Today most of my courses are TAC MED,pistol ,rifle,shotgun,wing shooting and carbine nut lately some SAFARISTS wwants to train at my farm with their DOUBLES ,and bolt action rifles ,so im preparing courses for them ,with my instructors .
Hopefully DON HEATH ,AND IVAN CARTER will be here next year.Juan

Juan: Sounds to me like you were hunting with a very unreasonable hunter. Stupid, perhaps might be a more appropriate word. If I read your story correctly, you were potentially in life threatening situation. When it gets that close and a buffalo is charging you, keep your 4570 in your hands and put that wounded buff down. The hell with what he said, you can sort that out afterwards. But if one of you gets injured because you hand over your guide rifle, then you're gonna have a real problem on your hands.

Who is this manly man client of yours, who shouted you back insisting he shoot the buffalo and not you?

FINAL THOUGHT: The size of a guy's trophy room is no indication of how good of a hunter he is and you found out. Stay safe down there vaquero!

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
What do you think about MOUNTY KALOGERAS school.
Or GUNSITE safari prep course.
Do you shoot or hunt with double shotgun just to get familiar with your double.

I can vouch for Monty's Safari Shooting School; I went last October to wring out my double rifle and learned a great deal. I had a great time, too! I will likely be going back this coming fall in prep for my safari next year.

www.safarishootingschool.com

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
What do you think about MOUNTY KALOGERAS school.
Or GUNSITE safari prep course.
Do you shoot or hunt with double shotgun just to get familiar with your double.

I can vouch for Monty's Safari Shooting School; I went last October to wring out my double rifle and learned a great deal. I had a great time, too! I will likely be going back this coming fall in prep for my safari next year.

www.safarishootingschool.com

Juan, I too can vouch for Monty's school haveing a first class facility and training program. Like Antlers, the DRSS group were invited guests, from our anual hunt/get together down at the near by 4K ranch in January, to Monty's place, and I was very impressed with Monty's knowledge, aned meathod of teaching!

He is worth checking out!

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
What do you think about MOUNTY KALOGERAS school.
Or GUNSITE safari prep course.
Do you shoot or hunt with double shotgun just to get familiar with your double.

I got to see some of Monty's school at a DRSS shoot several years ago. I was very impressed.
He is set up to do just about anything you want. From helping you regulate a load for a double, to setting up some tough rifle courses, even shooting full size cut outs of ele and cape buff, he has the charging buff you see on the Heym USA video's .

When it comes to training, you need to be fit. Weight training and long walks carrying a 12 lb iron bar is a start.

Throw away those dam shooting sticks and learn to shoot off hand!!!

I don't like spring piston air rifles for training they recoil back wards, a precharge scuba gun is OK for doing stuff inside your home.

Full size quality 22 LR are better (Sako, anshultz, win 52 etc). Train with the same sight system you will hunt with, same jacket etc. Get a set of swingers about 4" in dia and a set of 2" in dia. Start at 50 yards on the 4" when you are 80% move to the 2" then move back to 75 then a 100 on calm days. You will need adjustments for each distance. At 75 and 100 the wind will be a factor with a 22. If there are some small bore shilo matches in the area join in (great for learning to shoot under pressure).

Get some snap caps and dry fire you hunting rifles. Get enough snap caps to run a magazine and refill 2 more and run them to. Buy the commercial caps don't make them, much safer and will last longer and be cheaper in the long run. Work on smooth not fast. Fast will come with the smoothness and practice. Get 6 caps if you got a double, fire two reload fire two more etc. Then fire 1 and reload before starting to follow up, mix it up.

Work on your gun mount and having the rifle come up on target. Learn to do it with both eyes open even with a high power scope. Do it just as if you are hunting.
Gun fit is very important.

Once you are hitting more than missing, work on firing two quick shots, then add some jumping jacks to get the heart going. Mix precision practice with gunfighting skill type drills.

Do most of your training off hand, stay off the sticks or the bench "other than working up a load or basic sight settings, or making a range card"!!! Your offhand settings will be different than bench settings.


Start with some light loads with the big bore.
Don't break a shot that you know will miss. If you are not on target within 15 seconds put the rifle down and start over. Use double hearing protection, muzzle blast and noise will make me flinch faster than recoil.

Dry fire every day, for every high power round you fire, fire five 22LR and 10 dry fires,this is where you learn to follow through and call your shots. Follow through and call you shots every time. Never break a bad shot!!! Mix 22 with high power practice, you will find out fast if you flinch, have a buddy load a mix of snap cap and live ammo for range practice. good practice for clearing a bad round and checking for flinching.

This is how I trained for Namibia, I made offhand killing shots on every thing under 350 yards first try. The only poor shot I made was was when I took a knee on a zebra at 325 that was facing me, I hit a little low and it skidded along the breast plate, "I wanted to see if the 375 tsx would go full length and aimed too low What a dumb stunt! I had to kill the poor thing on the run 3 shots 3 hits (last one behind the front shoulder) all between 250 and 300 yards.

I am not bragging, I am not anything special, I just trained hard and spent the time and money need to become proficient you can too, you just have to want to!

I had a good start with small bore matches, but the 500 rounds of 375 H&H and 416 rem mag helped a lot. I trained for almost a year.

JD

I like getting a bunch of milk jugs or other small plastic jugs with handles, fill them with water and go for a walk dumping them off at different ranges and elevations or whetever yer terrain allows. Then go waaay back from them and then granb the rifle and go for another walk, taking shots as you approach. Helps because your heart rate is up, distances are unknown and targets are easily seen if hit. Its also fun.

I used my African Safari to train for whitetail deer and pigs back home. I sure shot more in a week in South Africa than the entire season here.

Before I went I shot an airgun daily, and a .22 and my hunting rifle twice weekly at the range off sticks. Then I went twice to shoot at 300 and 400 yards, just in case.

Don't shoot just single rounds during practice.
Make sure you also practice taking quick second shots and sometimes thirds.
This is important, since you can not predict when a game animal will run after being shot.
You need to be capable of an accurate and quick follow up shot. Sometimes even a third shot is appropriate.
This may be something the DG hunter wants to think about more than PG hunters.

I am sure that some would benefit from a training course.

Wow. I guess I'm Mr. No Practice. My routine:

Dial in rifles from lead sled. This takes as many shots as it takes, but usually less than five, often only one or two.

Shoot 5 or 6 rounds per gun on three or four occasions in the 8 -10 weeks before I leave (hood of truck, sticks, off hand, three shot rapid fire).

Shooting more than 20 shots per gun would be alot for me.

However, while I may not shoot 100s of rounds pre-safari, I do shoot often through the year. In addition to 1000s of shotgun shells thrown at clay birds and real birds and many rounds of .22, I may shoot 20 or 25 deer over the winter plus whatever I shoot on hunting trips that year. It's not like I pull out the safari battery once every five years and that is the only shooting that I do.

I bought this little metal spinning target that is pushed in the ground . The top has a square about 1.5 inches. The bottom square is about 3 inches. I shoot at it from various positions with a 22. I shoot from 50 yards.

It is great practice and it is cheap.

I may fire 5-10 rounds per session with my big guns at 100 yards at a gong we have at our range.

One of the most important things to learn is, to be able to shoot quickly, and accurately.

Use whatever rest you can find, tree, rock, shooting sticks and even the PH's shoulders.

If you have been running after an animal for a while, you need all the help you can get.

Can't say enough good things about SAAM training at the FTW. Good people, lots of knowledge of the sport, the locations and what it takes to do it right. Tim and the instructors have a great facility and can even furnish .223 bolt guns with express sights, and a selection of other optics for the novice hunter.

Shooting the movers with .223 as practice before breaking out the big guns is great experience and lets you put a lot of rounds downrange without the fatigue of a big bore.

Of course you shoot the big bore alot too, and learn your weapons limits as regards accuracy and range. Your limits as far as position and range are tested also. Really challenging stuff, and good food to complete the deal.

Here is Pam Zaitz of She Safaris featured in an article "Shooting Done Right"

SAAM trainning at FTW Outfitters.com

http://www.brushcountrymonster...e-at-ftw-outfitters/

Dear gentlemen ,i believe Juan is asking because he wants to teach safari prep at his range and farm.I teach there rifle,carbine and revolver.But now his clients -international hunters- wants to learn too.Althoug hes teaching TAC MED exclusively to one army SF the 602 company ,i believe he would began with SAFARI PREP courses.But he shoots daily at least 100 rounds of pistol,a bit of shotgun ,and 20 rouns of rifle ,he and his son shoots everyday.The problem is that he hasnt experience with doubles ,so hes thinking about learning from a PRO.

I would be thinking about getting a combination of a range practice, with using natural rests and the sling or standing bipod.

Putting it up quickly and smoothly to be able to shift shooting post from time to time .

Spend more on ammo than yyou do your gun. Then go out and shoot it, alot. Forget the bench, it's for picnics. Shooting sticks and off-hand.