Mike Brady, proprietor of North Fork Bullets, who most must know has decided to retire from bullet making, asked me to post a warning to users of North Fork Bullets. His warning:

The North Fork Cup Point Bullets are NOT intended for use on ELEPHANTS!!

Mike expressed frustration in the continuing misunderstanding and repeats that amoungst his bullets, only the North Fork flat point solids should be used for elephants. He was pretty emphatic, his quote:

"If you guys don't knock off this crap of going after elephant with CP solids, one of you is going to wind up stepped on.......PERMANENTLY."

Please heed Mike's warning!!

Thanks,

JPK

If a manufacturer says that a certain bullet of theirs is not intended for elephant, why would one not listen?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

I would, if I "had" to or "needed" to, use a NF cup point on elephant in a second.

I would also use a Barnes X or a Hirtenberger ABC.

But I don't have to, or expect to have to, so what's the issue? Just use what is best and recommended and let the maker do the recommending.

I - M - H - O, of course.

MRLexma,

Will is only trying to give Mike a dose of bull s--t, he is not really serious, at least I hope not!

Seargent Sabre,

I believe the confusion began with the names of the two bullets - flat nose solid, a true non-deforming solid, vs. cup point solid, a cup pointed mono metal bullet (eg, solid copper) intended to expand just a little bit - and not with an intentional disregard for the maker's recomendations.

JPK

Hell, I'd use a Ballistic Tip if I had to and aim for the eye.

I guess I missed a few episodes of this one.

Yes you did, but you can't find them here! They're in another thread asking for elephant with a 470 advice, originally started by Brett.

I think Will is miffed with Mike for daring to retire and for refusing to slave away to make Will's favorite elephant bullet.

Hmm, thats almost enough reason!

JPK

I can attest from personal experience that the North Fork Cup Points are perfect for cape buffalo and giraffe.

For elephants, stick to solids. Preferably flat nose solids.

Elgin Gates used a 300 Wby with 180 gr Nosler Partitions and a 3-9 scope on a trophy elephant in Mozambique. Nonetheless, that combination has not become popular among either clients or PHs in pursue of elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

Elgin Gates used a 300 Wby with 180 gr Nosler Partitions and a 3-9 scope on a trophy elephant in Mozambique. Nonetheless, that combination has not become popular among either clients or PHs in pursue of elephant.

,,,,,, , .He did ?? where did he shoot the elephant ,.,., ????

Maybe in the leading leg knee...the "classic" Dutch shot...

Totally hijacking this thread but I'm pretty sure Gates shot his Ugandan 180lber with his .300 also. IIRC, it was in or near a river and he took the brain from the front. The ele ended up washing down river and recovering the tusks was touch and go for quite a while. The story of that hunt is one of the greats.

As for me, ele's and .300's go together like pickels and ice cream...

Here's the story:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/gates_elephant.html

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Hell, I'd use a Ballistic Tip if I had to and aim for the eye.

I guess I missed a few episodes of this one.

Did he say anything about running with scissors?

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Did he say anything about running with scissors?

I just gotta say that this comment is utterly unfair to Mike Brady, who has retired but passes along his warning only because some fellows have used, or thought of using, the cup points on elephants and he is concerned for the thier safety.

JPK

I think Jim is always the comedian, and its nothing personal.

I was just kidding too before you start yelling at me.

quote:

.He did ?? where did he shoot the elephant ,.,., ????

Side brain shot. And he also used (1959) the then experimental 30/378 in similar fashion. both reports are in his great book, 'Trophy Hunter In Africa" jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I think Jim is always the comedian, and its nothing personal.

I was just kidding too before you start yelling at me.

Will, as you are pointing out to me that I lack Jim's sense of humor, I was pointing out to someone else that they lack yours.

I don't think you took offense, I think you are now just taking an opportunity to give me the BS, but if you did, none was intended.

Likewise to Jim Manion if my lack of sense of humor caused me to misunderestimate your post.

JPK

John,

It was a joke. I know Mike and think he's a hellauv a guy. Like Will, there was no intent to disparage him.

Tell Mike that Will and I will continue our campaigns of humorless humor until Mike relents and starts cranking out bullets again. And it won't be pretty!

And I will continue to run with scissors!

Any time Mike Brady gives you a warning about the use of one of his bullets for any particular purpose, it is worth heeding! If there is a draw-back with one of his bullets, he will tell you up front about it. When he first came out with the CPS, he told me, personally, he didn't think it should be used on elephant, and questioned me as to both the FPS,and CPS usefulness in double rifles,and on Buffalo. They are good bullets, and I'm gonna miss them!

However, everyone is right about Jim, and Will! They are both mean ole humbugs. Not sweet, and always agreeable like me!

........Thanks for posting the link PWS ....I had never been to that site .................So it seems if you drive a peice of metal that stays in a chunk fast enough you can be lucky and have things work out .....................I really do think a Cup point solid would work better than a Nosler partition .....But ir Mike says don,t,, probably a guy ought not .....I wounder tho how would a 450 gr Cup Point North Fork .458 Solid compare to a 500 gr Hornady solid for depth of penetration ??...I assume it would penetrate straight .,?..................I wonder how many people will read that story and completely disregard the fact that he wished he had the heavy rifle in his hands and that while hunting in close cover that he prefered the 470 with solids ?????????? Probably most ........

quote:

However, everyone is right about Jim, and Will! They are both mean ole humbugs. Not sweet, and always agreeable like me!

LOL!

Better check your nose, Mac - must've grown about 6 inches with that statement!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

However, everyone is right about Jim, and Will! They are both mean ole humbugs. Not sweet, and always agreeable like me!

LOL!

Better check your nose, Mac - must've grown about 6 inches with that statement!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

However, everyone is right about Jim, and Will! They are both mean ole humbugs. Not sweet, and always agreeable like me!

LOL!

Better check your nose, Mac - must've grown about 6 inches with that statement!

You got me there Jim!

I would take a body shot on an elephant with a Northfork cup point, and I have used them more than Mike has. For a head shot I's stick to the flat point solid..

The cup point is probably a better bullet than Mike thinks it is as far as penetration is concerned, but I suppose to be safe one should always use a solid on elephant, so I'll give him that.

In my 450 Dakota, the 450 grain NF FN solid will penetrate more than 120 inches water. The CP 46 inches.

In wood stop box it is 52 1/2 to 39 boards.

In elephant, I know the 450 grain FN will go 60 inches through skull (not body).

Never used the CP on critters.

Based on this Id use a heavy FMJ RN or SD .300 mono FN on elephant. I was not happy with the RN monos I used on elephant. Barely made it to skin on off side head, 16 year old cow.

Andy

Andy,
I broke both shoulders on a Cape buffalo and got a one inch exit hole with the .416 Rem and the cup point and I have shot them in the butt and had penetration into the neck...so I figure it would get to the off side skin on and elephant, in fact I know it will...As to its effectiveness on head shots with elephants I don't know but it would make it to the brain I suspect..The cup point will out penetrate about any soft point that I know of and almost as well as a FP solid in my tests on wet newspaper...

I see no reason to head shoot elephant with anything other than a solid but thought this would make some stimulating conversation......

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
In my 450 Dakota, the 450 grain NF FN solid will penetrate more than 120 inches water. The CP 46 inches.

In wood stop box it is 52 1/2 to 39 boards.

In elephant, I know the 450 grain FN will go 60 inches.

Never used the CP on critters.

Based on this Id use a heavy FMJ RN or SD .300 mono FN on elephant. I was not happy with the RN monos I used on elephant. Barely made it to skin on off side head, 16 year old cow.

Andy

Now just a thought. Since these bullets are solid material and if you have cup points and need FN solids, how about chucking them up in a lthe and turn them flat. You'll loose a few grains, but so what? Should work, anybody tried it?

quote:

Originally posted by Sergeant_Sabre:
If a manufacturer says that a certain bullet of theirs is not intended for elephant, why would one not listen?

Sierra Bullets warns not to use their MatchKing target bullets on any sized game animals. You'd be surprised at how many folks don't heed Sierra's recommendation and actually prefer them for longrange shots. Some people seem to know more than the manufacturers.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by Sergeant_Sabre:
If a manufacturer says that a certain bullet of theirs is not intended for elephant, why would one not listen?

Sierra Bullets warns not to use their MatchKing target bullets on any sized game animals. You'd be surprised at how many folks don't heed Sierra's recommendation and actually prefer them for longrange shots. Some people seem to know more than the manufacturers.

I seriously doubt it in the case you cite. Here it is likely a matter of some fellows believing one sort of bullet performance is good for deer while the manufacturer thinks its bad. Or a case of a fellow shooting 10 deer and thinking he's found the tits when after thousand of bullets the maufacturer finds too much incosistency or too much unreliability.

In North Fork's case it certainly isn't true and Ray's supositions are just that. Kinda like mine, I think the cup points might make a great tuskless cow hunting bullet where ranges are short, cover is thick and the eles are pissy. But I wouldn't try them without lots of experientation on dead cow eles.

JPK
JPK

Yep, I'm just supositioning!