The recent thread on famous quotes got me thinking........ Today's technology has changed so much from the old days it's not true.

We now have sat phones where you can talk to anyone in the world from anywhere, we have b gans where you can e-mail, internet bank, surf the net and even post on the forums from anywhere in the world, including the African bush.

We have NVG's, illuminated scopes and GPS etc.

And I wonder what the old timers such as Black and Hunter would have made of it all.......

So what do you guys think their reaction would be?

I like this thread. This stimulates my already active imagination.

I could envision John "Pondoro" Taylor coming into this room anonymously and posting. He might enjoy it, I would imagine.

About the technology, I think a few of those old gentlemen would dismiss them as gadgetry. But some might have someone along who understands them, just in case.

But I'm glad that these old gentlemen didn't live in our time, to be honest. Most, if not all, of them might be very disapproving of the current state of affairs in the world.

Maybe, maybe not. It's easy for us to sit here and think they would disapprove when in fact, many of them used the best technology they could get ahold of at the time. If they DIDN'T, it was often because they couldn't afford it. Do you think any of them would have avoided the jet airplane so they could ride on a ship for several months?

Having said that, there are interesting stories about some of them not wanting to switch over to nitro expresses, etc. There's always someone in the room who wants to drag their feet.

There is a lot of technology I don't care for but when it comes to comm's, safety, etc. I'm all for it.

i often think of what my dad would do if he came back today. I believe those old timers would do the same thing. Their jaws would drop in amazement, the they'd give you a big kick in the rear, and then a friendly smile

quote:

It's easy for us to sit here and think they would disapprove when in fact, many of them used the best technology they could get ahold of at the time. If they DIDN'T, it was often because they couldn't afford it.

I think this fairly states what their reactions would be to improvements in bullets, powders, scopes, etc.

For the legal pro ivory hunters I suspect they would be all for the comms since it would only make their endevors more efficient, the poachers against since it could end their careers and the sportsman clients against since it takes away from the experience I think.

I think comms like sat phones are great when used in limitation or only as neccesary, for medical emergencies for instance. Business requirements had me using a sat phone nightly on the trip prior to this last one and while having it along enabled me to go, using it was a major impediment to the experience. This last time, using it every four or five days to let my family know all was well and to hear the same was great though. Good to have if someone falls ill or is injured.

JPK

I suspect they would have used the current technology, especially the elephant poachers/hunters. I would think the bullets would have been the best item along with optics.

Only an opinion but I feel most would have embraced such technology as would make life easier. How many used M/L rifles and round balls once cartridge guns and conical bullets were available? How many continued foot, horseback and ox cart safaris when automobiles and even planes reached Africa?
No, I think back to my grandmother who was born in the horse and buggy era, lived to see electricity, telephones automobiles and even space travel become common place and the "technology revolution" seems quite a misnomer by comparison. The idea that because the (early) last century's advances didn't reach Africa as quickly as today's would result in men of that era being less oportunistic seems unreasonable.

If by a miracle some of the great old timers were to be magically transported to the present day and confronted with the amazing array of gadgetry that exists today they would probably have two common questions that would go something like this...


1) "Holy shit,how does that work?"

2) "Where the fuck do I get one?"

I knew Elmer Keith, and have thought a number of times, how he'd reacted to the new light weight hunting boot, and fleece undershirts, and hunting pants, etc. Probably would have been tickled out of his mind. Can you imagine hunting in the old White brand logging boots, that despite what you wore for socks, you feet would still get cold (and they weight, what, 10 lbs each, lol), or hunting in wool, in layers, and still (when active yes) not keeping as warm as you can with fleece, etc. And the new bullets. Lack of decent bullets was why he didn't like certain rounds, But bet with Swift A-frames in 7mm would like the 280, as it'd penetrate, which was his main concern. Lot of the old timers, I think, would have appreciated the advancements in guns, ammo and hunting clothes.

Shakari,

Nice thought and thread about the “old gentlemen†in modern times. But have you ever thought of yourself in 100 years' time?

What will the future generations think, say, admire and whish they were there "then" - in 2008 or thereabouts - when great PH's like Steve Shakari, Bwanamich and others posting on this forum were hunting buffalo in Tanzania for a paltry few $K!

I too wonder what it would be like to have lived 100 or 200 years ago in Africa. Sure there were times when there were more 100 pounders around to be had by anyone with the determination. But do you have any idea how those old hunters suffered from a simple problem like a root canal infection toothache without Augmentin in the First Aid box? How did they do without DEET? Sunblock? Ice? My saying is: "The good old times is NOW!"

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Andrew

You took the words out of my mouth ...

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
Shakari,

But do you have any idea how those old hunters suffered from a simple problem like a root canal infection toothache without Augmentin in the First Aid box? How did they do without DEET? Sunblock? Ice? My saying is: "The good old times is NOW!"

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Not to mention the malaria prophylaxis. I just finished Brian Herne's "White Hunters" so blackwater fever comes to mind.

/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
If they had the technology we had today they would have succeded in wiping out every living Wild animal in Africa! They came damn near close to it !

Sorry ALF, I think they would have been hounded by all the bunny hugger orgenizations and made jobless

Andrew,

Good point..... taking it a step further, if African hunting survives for another 100 years, I wonder what it'll have evolved into. We already have full internet access etc in the bush and modern pressures of work now mean that many clients need to use that most evenings.

Almost as many use the facility to post here and other forums...... today's pressures also show a trend towards shorter safaris for the same reasons. It's even becoming increasingly common to have one hunting team for the client and another team to do the baiting and set the cat hunt up, so all the client has to do is walk into the blind, take the shot and walk out again instead of spending his valuable hunting time on the baiting process........

Maybe what we need is a microwave time machine, that lets us fit a day's hunting into a couple of hours......

Alternatively, maybe we'll have virtual hunting, where the client stays home and the PH hunts with a camera on his head and just hunts the animals on the clients instructions and ships the trophies to him at the end of the hunt..................... now there's an idea!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by oupa:
Only an opinion but I feel most would have embraced such technology as would make life easier. How many used M/L rifles and round balls once cartridge guns and conical bullets were available? How many continued foot, horseback and ox cart safaris when automobiles and even planes reached Africa?
No, I think back to my grandmother who was born in the horse and buggy era, lived to see electricity, telephones automobiles and even space travel become common place and the "technology revolution" seems quite a misnomer by comparison. The idea that because the (early) last century's advances didn't reach Africa as quickly as today's would result in men of that era being less oportunistic seems unreasonable.

oupa and other guests, I think the take by oupa above is very true, and because like the technology is to us today, it would have been used by them the same way. However it would have been a slow projection into the technology, just like us, and not so amazing.

Their reaction to today's technology would be quite different, if they were simply taken from their time, and dropped into this time suddenly! Like oupa's grandmother haveing experienceing advancements over a life time makes these advancements no big deal, because they were a process of life's experiences. To Taylor, being transported into today suddenly, I think would be fearfull of some of the technology as VooDoo, and/or at least, a henderance to his poaching operation! He would have been much easier to track today!

I must agree that suddenly dropping those old boys into the 21st century would likely be a shocker. The analogy of "voodoo" etc... brings to mind an old friend now deceased who had served many years as the secretary of a large organization. As technology advanced he was pressured to give up his old typewriter for a computer. A year before he died he announced at the annual meeting he'd been convinced to allow one on his desk however he would not permit the "death-ray" machine in his office. Seems the old boy equated the laser printer to something from Flash Gordon!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Andrew,

Good point..... taking it a step further, if African hunting survives for another 100 years, I wonder what it'll have evolved into. We already have full internet access etc in the bush and modern pressures of work now mean that many clients need to use that most evenings.

Almost as many use the facility to post here and other forums...... today's pressures also show a trend towards shorter safaris for the same reasons. It's even becoming increasingly common to have one hunting team for the client and another team to do the baiting and set the cat hunt up, so all the client has to do is walk into the blind, take the shot and walk out again instead of spending his valuable hunting time on the baiting process....................:

Steve,

Firstly I firmly believe that African, and hunting in general, will survive the next 100 years or more. That the hunt as we know it today will change very much is also beyond argument.

But let us attempt to find some common ground:

I predict that:
1. Hunting will be much more expensive in real "hours of work put in for the cost of a day's hunt or a particular trophy species", This prediction is made from past experience: For the last few hundred years African game became more expensive to hunt. Why will the trend reverse?
2. There will be much less total hunting, but there will be a shift to more "farm hunting", like we do here in the Free State for blesbok! It is simply a fact that a well-managed herd of blesbok can out-perform many sheep races in total meat production if all costs, and particularly the cost of labor is considered.
3. Real wilderness DG hunting, like you do in Selous, will be reserved for the very, very rich only. This has already largely happened in Europe.
4. A PH will be required to have at least 5 years practicing as a lawyer and an LLB an absolute requirement to enroll for a PH school. Hunting will be very well regulated and controlled, is really what I mean to say. Any thing as expensive as hunting will be will need very carefully worded contracts and clauses to protect all the parties involved.
5. Hunting weapons will be much more modern, but some will continue to use the rifles weuse now, including muzzleloaders. Hunting with bow-and-arrow, atl-atl, spears and fire-hardened sharp sticks will still have a following.

What else can one predict with some confidence about hunting in 100 year's time?

Will Internet posting require anything more than a thought-translator? A machine that picks up your thoughts and puts them directly into words beamed to some or all?

In good hunting in the meantime.

Andrew McLaren

This is a good way to get to know the responding members a little better because IMO we're projecting our own tastes and biases onto people who are no longer with us and whom we've never known to begin with. (I think this is what psychologists refer to as "projection.")

That's just my theory anyway.

quote:

1. Hunting will be much more expensive in real "hours of work put in for the cost of a day's hunt or a particular trophy species", This prediction is made from past experience: For the last few hundred years African game became more expensive to hunt. Why will the trend reverse?

I believe that this is incorrect. In 2003 I took a 14 day hunt and bagged two buffalo, an elephant and a lion. The total cost including airfare from the U.S., payment to the outfitter and trophy shipping was less than the annual salary of a begining elementary school teacher.

I doubt African hunting has ever been cheaper than it was 5 or 10 years ago. I don't see it returning to those levels.

I think Bell and Taylor would not believe that, in the future, a retail sales clerk could afford to travel from the U.S. to Africa to hunt for several weeks each year.

Jason

Shakari, This is a interesting thought that most of us have had. I would think that they indeed would us modern equiptment ie, guns, scopes, bullets, clothing, vehicles. Most likely limit technology somewhat while hunting. Examples would be not allowing range finders, walkie talkies while hunting. I'm sure that they would be upset with the "canned" hunting, but would be OK with ranch style hunting when done well. Some, like Taylor who hunted up into the early 60's would most likey use the same guns today that he used then. Bell would be happy since his beloved small bores would be deadlier then ever with the improvement of modern bullets. Since traveling is so much better, and if their Africa has become abit crowded they may try their hand at guiding hunters in Alaska for Brown bear, big Moose, and the other big game found in that great State. There is alot of "lonesome" Country in that State, and that "lonesome" County attracted that breed of Man.

I must say I personally don't think that much of the equipment on my last Safari was anymore Hi Tech than the equipment of seventy years ago and the equipment that was, was probably not that necessary.

Niassa Buff with 9.3Mauser

I have been accused of being an old timer, at least they hold my 110th birthday at Dallas every year, but by some standards I'm just a kid I suppose (I hope)

That said to clear the air! I am very prone to not take kindly to new stuff..I don't like Stainless steel guns, plastic stocks, red dots except on my shorts, gimmicks of any kind such as the binoculars harnesses that make you look like a trussed up goat, sabots, funny looking reticles, new calibers for the most part with an ocassional exception, and on and on, and I am nostalgic thank the good Lord above, and I feel sorry for anyone that is not, it just adds so much more to ones life if he is a true hunter...

All that said, I really do not care what other folks do and like as that is what makes the wheels turn...to each his own is only fair within reason.

Oz hunter, I love that rifle!