I have been watching from afar for some time now and as is evident by my avatar I’m a new member. Some things I see confuse me and seem counterintuitive to a casual observer.

Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”

Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

Ivan by his own admission had killed three elephants that charged unintentionally in the making of that video, I only see Mark kill buffalo chosen for trophy.

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession. I know, he shoots the client animals. Wrong, if you tell mark no shooting he will sit on his hands until he is required to assist.

With all due respect....

I've only seen MS snippets before, but it appears he provokes animals into charging. There is such a clip out there on YouTube where he appears to be kicking rocks at a hippo until it charges. And then the whole audio overlay of "he chooses how he will die," etc. etc. sounds pretty damn stupid to me.

I do not know Mr. Boddington nor do I know Mr. Carter, but if either of them carried on like that I would be just as turned off. Perhaps the problem with MS is the image he cultivates. It does not seem to sit well with many regardless of his skill in practice amongst DG.

Just a thought.

craig and ivan are perceived as being ethical hunters. sullivan is perceived in an entirely different light. this is of course a general statement, but most of the guys here are ethical hunters. there are some not and certainly some that are wannabes. The ideas put forward by sullivan to goad an animal into charging so that he can execute a life savings shot before the camera if nominally thought of quite unethical

There's probably a fine line between ethics and stupidity in elliciting a charge to finish an animal. I personally lean to the stupidity side of that equation.

I have found there are many with varying degrees of an overbloated sense of ethics.

Sort of like the shooting from a vehicle debate, take no prisoners purity/ideological debate.....sigh

quote:

Originally posted by fatbutnotdead:
I have been watching from afar for some time now and as is evident by my avatar I’m a new member. Some things I see confuse me and seem counterintuitive to a casual observer.

Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”

Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

Ivan by his own admission had killed three elephants that charged unintentionally in the making of that video, I only see Mark kill buffalo chosen for trophy.

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession. I know, he shoots the client animals. Wrong, if you tell mark no shooting he will sit on his hands until he is required to assist.

I'll just say if you don't see the difference between these three people,without haveing to ask, than in my view, there is no need to comfuse you with facts, your mind is made up!

I for one will not pay $20K for a PH to shoot my trophies!

...............

I personally know Mark but not the others. I did however see Ivan prompting charges from Jumbos in that video
Chip

What an interesting phenomona you have discovered here, folks' tastes differ. Seems like somebody somewhere would have stumbled across something like that before.

Well, I guess it's too late now to start telling folks what they must prefer...

Personally, I would be honored to share a campfire with Mr. Carter or Mr. Boddington anytime, but wouldn't take a free-ride hunt to Africa if I had to hunt with Mark Sullivan.

As for worship, I only worship Charlize Theron and Monica Bellucci, not necessarily in that order, alas from afar.

Your mileage may vary.

jefffive,
Have you hunted Buffalo in Tanz. with Mark before?

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
jefffive,
Have you hunted Buffalo in Tanz. with Mark before?

No, and I never will, recognizing that I might well be missing the hunt of a lifetime.

Not my cup of tea, old boy.

I understand, where do you like to hunt buff and with whom?
Chip

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
jefffive,
Have you hunted Buffalo in Tanz. with Mark before?

No, and I never will, recognizing that I might well be missing the hunt of a lifetime.

Not my cup of tea, old boy.

Who have you hunted buffalo with?

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
I understand, where do you like to hunt buff and with whom?
Chip

The only buff I have hunted were with Capstick, and Ruark, and Akeley, and their ilk.

If a Rule comes down tomorrow that I can never hunt buffalo unless I hunt with Mr. Sullivan, I'll just pass.

Jefffive,
Just one question and I'll let it go. if you've not hunted buffalo and not met Sullivan how can you be so narrow minded. Alister Norton a very good friend of mine(since I'm accused of not naming names)and extremely qualified professional hunter has watched his videos and has told me, EVERY appy ph should watch this guy hunt the cats, he's got his shit wired and he even thinks like a cat. He also has shot some of the largest buffalo I've ever seen come from Moyowasi (?) and the Selous.
He's not for everybody but neither is Bootie Bothma or Ivan carter or anybody for that matter.
Chip

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fatbutnotdead:
I have been watching from afar for some time now and as is evident by my avatar I’m a new member. Some things I see confuse me and seem counterintuitive to a casual observer.

Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”

Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

Ivan by his own admission had killed three elephants that charged unintentionally in the making of that video, I only see Mark kill buffalo chosen for trophy.

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession. I know, he shoots the client animals. Wrong, if you tell mark no shooting he will sit on his hands until he is required to assist.

I'll just say if you don't see the difference between these three people,without haveing to ask, than in my view, there is no need to comfuse you with facts, your mind is made up!

I for one will not pay $20K for a PH to shoot my trophies!

...............

+1

I can say I have met the man on a personal matter and I would never give that man my money after everything I wouldnt spit on that man if he was on fire

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

The only buff I have hunted were with Capstick, and Ruark, and Akeley, and their ilk.

Then I don't suppose you are very qualified to post in an African Hunting forum, except for asking basic questions.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by fatbutnotdead:
I have been watching from afar for some time now and as is evident by my avatar I’m a new member. Some things I see confuse me and seem counterintuitive to a casual observer.

Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”

Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

Ivan by his own admission had killed three elephants that charged unintentionally in the making of that video, I only see Mark kill buffalo chosen for trophy.

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession. I know, he shoots the client animals. Wrong, if you tell mark no shooting he will sit on his hands until he is required to assist.

I'll just say if you don't see the difference between these three people,without haveing to ask, than in my view, there is no need to comfuse you with facts, your mind is made up!

I for one will not pay $20K for a PH to shoot my trophies!

...............

+1

What is the difference, no specifics ? charging animals that die in front of a camera for profit. Its black and white.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
I can say I have met the man on a personal matter and I would never give that man my money after everything I wouldnt spit on that man if he was on fire

And which man in the pantheon referenced above are you referring to?

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:
I can say I have met the man on a personal matter and I would never give that man my money after everything I wouldnt spit on that man if he was on fire

Aren't you that thor guy who got banned yesterday?

actually I didnt get banned I asked to have my old name removed but yes i am thanks for pointing that out Axel

Mark Sullivan and due to conditions of the legal settlement thats all I can say

but question is how many names do you have here actually fatbutnotdead i mean ovny i mean hog leg so what is it today

Welcome back Thor, you used that "troll" thing to soon.

Did he hit on your lady or what, drink all your scotch

As I said part of the court case I am not allowed to go into details any further

What court case? I thought this was about hunting videos.

If you dont know dont concern yourself Axel GOD HOW MANY NAMES DOES THIS GUY HAVE

Antlers??? whats the difference, looking at your Mark Sullivan collection just now?

Mark Sullivan has been discussed at length here, but like many of the topics there is a definite sway against his style. On another board it may be different, I don't know.

At the end of the day you have to appreciate that he has in his endeavors created the best collection of charge footage ever made and in doing so has allowed many of us to study our way up to successful DG hunting/shooting encounters. I know that most if not all field guide trainers will call on his videos to demonstrate at the very least a charging buff to secure correct shot placement etc.

Most hate him for his personality far more than anything else, but at the end of the day you have to sum up what he does, not what you think of him.
My personal view is that he is a great professional hunter, without doubt one of the finest shots around and whether they admit it or not has motivated more people to come to Africa and hunt than many of the others.

Each of us should make our own minds up, but blind hatred and lack of thought is exactly what allows Zealotism to prosper, and that is far more dangerous than any videos as it is what drives the anti hunting mindset too.

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
Jefffive,
Just one question and I'll let it go. if you've not hunted buffalo and not met Sullivan how can you be so narrow minded. Alister Norton a very good friend of mine(since I'm accused of not naming names)and extremely qualified professional hunter has watched his videos and has told me, EVERY appy ph should watch this guy hunt the cats, he's got his shit wired and he even thinks like a cat. "He" also has shot some of the largest buffalo I've ever seen come from Moyowasi (?) and the Selous.
He's not for everybody but neither is Bootie Bothma or Ivan carter or anybody for that matter.
Chip

As I said in my earlier post, "I for one will not pay $20K for a PH to shoot my trophies!"

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:

At the end of the day you have to appreciate that he has in his endeavors created the best collection of charge footage ever made and in doing so has allowed many of us to study our way up to successful DG hunting/shooting encounters . I know that most if not all field guide trainers will call on his videos to demonstrate at the very least a charging buff to secure correct shot placement etc.

I have always had a lot of respect for you as one of the PHs that frequent our forum. Not that you care, but I have a hard time respecting any PH who believes that provoked "matador-style" charges have anything to do with real charges.

Provoking a charge with "feet set square, rifle ready, back-up riflemen on your wings, wounded buffalo in plain view" is about as close to a real charge as a destruction derby is head on accident on the highway.

Real charges rarely happen in the open because PH's stop the show before it starts.

Real charges don't usually make for good film because the wounded animal is hidden until he has decided to come. By then it is usually too late to get the camera in position.

I am not trying to start a fight, I may have misunderstood your post.

Just my 2 cents.

The main job of the PH is to protect his client.

In a perfect world, the tracker finds the animal, the client executes a fabulous one shot kill, the PH slaps his back and shakes his hand and everybody goes back to camp to get pissed. What a lovely day out.

However if the shit hits the fan one needs a PH who has a cool head and can shoot with great effect using a sufficiently powerful rifle (600 nitro) to stop whatever nasty beastie that is trying to have a piece of you. Sullivan fits that profile more than adequately.

For those of that don't know, if you do not want him to shoot your animal, he won't. Unless of course it's going to make a mess of your sorry arse.

ALWAYS USE ENOUGH GUN

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:

At the end of the day you have to appreciate that he has in his endeavors created the best collection of charge footage ever made and in doing so has allowed many of us to study our way up to successful DG hunting/shooting encounters . I know that most if not all field guide trainers will call on his videos to demonstrate at the very least a charging buff to secure correct shot placement etc.

J Brown, I may be mistakened but i think what Vlam was actually saying is not that MS is right in his sick activity, but that his footage has supplied the PH school footage the lets them study the body language so they know how the buffalo acts just before he charges. I agree with that, because no matter what caused the charge, the animal still acts a certain way just before he comes.

Mark Sullivan is a good judge of Cape Buffalo, and lion, and it is true that he finds some outstanding trophies for his clients, which he promptly shoots for them as well! He is the most trigger happy PH I have ever seen. The best PHs in the world are those who never have to fire their rifles, and who make sure the client puts the animal out of his misery as soon as is possible. Instead telling his client to put an insurance shot in a downed Buffalo, he keeps walking up to the buff till the buff has no choice but to get up and fight, when Mark is already ready for the buffalo, to "Let him decide how he wants to die!" Bullshit!
He would rather let the animal suffer till he can elisite a charge for the camera, so "HE" can shoot it!

I doubt many of the best PHs in Africa with years of hunting Buffalo, have as many charges in their whole career that are years longer that MS's, as MS does on one film. That is simply because they take care of business, instead of provoking a charge so he can pound his chest like a Gorilla. Watch his films, and think about it, why is it that you don't see him provoke charges from lions? In fact, in the film "SUDDEN DEATH" you can see the fear in his eyes when he gets ready to go into the grass with a wounded lion, no kicking dirt in a lion's face!.......

So you have seen the video's and can even say which one?

I have met Craig and Brittany at Dallas DSC.
They were both very nice. They meet a LOT of people and probably do not remember me.

I have read most of Craigs work, and baised on my own hunting experience find little if any to disagree with.

Regarding the Leopard incident, and how they have handled it, their "stock" has gone up even more.

I have seen most all of Mark Sullivans videos and read his first book.

I have also spent some time with him, one on one.

I have also talked to people that have hunted with him, some of them more than once. They gave him nothing but HIGH praise.
While talking to him, I could see in his eyes that he was truely "possesed" by Africa and African hunting.

I understand his way of hunting, and his thurst for danger.

I know Ivan Carter fairly well. I was supposed to do my first Safari with him, but family circumstances forced him elseware, so I hunted with another PH. [Who was great, but is dead now].

Ivan and I have kept in touch and visit at DSC and Reno, and on the Web.


He is another that has Africa, and especially elephant hunting in his eyes.

All three of these people are Africa, and African Hunting driven, in slightly different ways, but they are living the life many of us would like to live.

They all have made sacrifices and or been in the right place at the right time, to persue their [and our] dream.

They have tried to let US live their dream, with their books and videos, and their work as PH's.

They deserve our respect.

450,
Very well put and very well phrased, I could say it nor think it any clearer. You further deepen my wonder at why CB and IC are praised always, but MS for the most part is hammered for his up close and personal encounters with buff. For me Mark represents buffalo hunting, not the charges or videos but the intimate close combat with iron sights and heavy african calibers. Hunting buff with a scope sighted rifle (for me) would be like having sex with your pants on.
Chipolopolo

quote:

Originally posted by chipolopolo:
450,
Very well put and very well phrased, I could say it nor think it any clearer. You further deepen my wonder at why CB and IC are praised always, but MS for the most part is hammered for his up close and personal encounters with buff. For me Mark represents buffalo hunting, not the charges or videos but the intimate close combat with iron sights and heavy african calibers. Hunting buff with a scope sighted rifle (for me) would be like having sex with your pants on.
Chipolopolo

Sex with your pants on?

Isn't that why we have zippers?