I been looking at diffrent calibers for a upcoming DG & PG hunt the .338 RUM, .338 Lapua, and .338-378 wby all have more FPE at any range than the .375 H&H. If a Barnes TSX is used they will expand to a larger cal, than .375 so why not use one of these rounds.

because the laws in most countries say you cant, so its not really worth discussing unless there is any chance of getting laws changed, which i doubt.

Energy gained with velocity is not as valuable as energy gained with weight. If you want to use a .338 than go to 300 grain bullets.

Since you can't legally use a .338 anything on DG don't waste time comparing the energy levels among them. If you want to hunt buff, etc, go out and buy a designated DGR in a legal caliber, get it tuned up by a competant smith and go hunting.

In addition to the remark on bullet weight, I would add frontal area. 300 gr. in .366 is the bottom end. Start there.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I been looking at diffrent calibers for a upcoming DG & PG hunt the .338 RUM, .338 Lapua, and .338-378 wby all have more FPE at any range than the .375 H&H. If a Barnes TSX is used they will expand to a larger cal, than .375 so why not use one of these rounds.

Personally speaking only, if the 338 were to be loaded with the right bullets for the job, I don't doubt that with excellent bullet placement it could take about anything. Thats a lot of provisions for hunting environments. The "Murphey" factor must be considered, "DG" in not called "DG" because they talk rudely to you. The others in your group must be considered also. JMHO.

It's true that .338-caliber rifles are not legal for DG. But at the same time, your PH will likely let you use one in a pinch. I've successfully used a .300 Win. Mag. on buffalo and lion in a pinch, and if a .300 will work, so will a .338, and likely better. Of course, for leopard a .338 will work as well as anything else and is, I believe, legal.

I know several guys who have used .338 Win. Mags. with premium 250 gr. softs for buffalo, lion, and leopard, plus elephant, rhino, and hippo with 250 gr. Barnes solids. A few guys have indeed taken all members of the 'Big Five' with this cartridge.

I see the .338 Win. Mag. (any .338) as primarily a plainsgame & leopard cartridge, but for use on bigger DG only in emergencies. I'm taking a .338 Win. Mag. loaded with 250 gr. Nosler Partitions to Tanzania this year in tandem with a .416 Rem. Mag. The .338 will be for plainsgame, but if that's what I happen to have in hand if we get into a hassle with a lion, then I guess we'll be havin' him.........

AD

posted 06 May 2005 20:20
I have used the .338 on almost all animals in the USA and most of Africa, including a Lion and more than a few Cape Buffalo...It is my elk rifle for Idaho hands down.

Given one rifle to hunt the world with I would certainly consider the .338 Win in the running.

Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-326-4120
www.atkinsonhunting.com

There must be some where in Africa that the .338 is legal.

The .338 is not legal for elephant, Cape buffalo, or rhino. It's probably legal for lion and leopard.

Check with your PH; he would be most familiar with the regulations where you will be hunting.

George

Previous respondents please read. I was going to ask a question, start a thread and could not believe this was here. I am reading a hunting book about Alaska and looked up the .338 Winchester Magnum in the number three edition of the Nosler manual (1989). I quote Jim Carmichel (who some don't like, I know) "I've also used the .338 in Africa with excellent results on a varity of game, including lion and even Cape buffalo". So 1) did he do it illegal and 2)just how efective is this round? If I am backed up will a PH let me use this with todays bullets?

A lot of hunters have taken a lot of game with a lot of cartridges. Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea. Yes, Ray has taken buff with a .338 but . . .

1. This is Ray we're talking about, who has been shooting longer than most of this forum has been alive and who has taken more game than most members will ever see.

2. Notice he said that "Given one rifle to hunt the world . . ." He doesn't hunt the world with one rifle and prefers his big doubles for DG.

3. Hunters in the '20's shot elephant with a 6.5. Was it a good idea? Would it be a good idea?

Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea. If one only had one rifle and was terrifically good with it, I can see wanting to take it to Africa. If your PH thinks it's o.k. and is backing you up with something bigger than .416, again I can see the desire to use the familiar rifle. However, sometimes things go desparately wrong. Sometimes the PH gets blindsided by some irate critter. Then would anyone here want to have to sort things out, and that means protecting the trackers as well as escaping yourself, with a mere .338? I simply am not that brave.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo M:
Previous respondents please read. I was going to ask a question, start a thread and could not believe this was here. I am reading a hunting book about Alaska and looked up the .338 Winchester Magnum in the number three edition of the Nosler manual (1989). I quote Jim Carmichel (who some don't like, I know) "I've also used the .338 in Africa with excellent results on a varity of game, including lion and even Cape buffalo". So 1) did he do it illegal and 2)just how efective is this round? If I am backed up will a PH let me use this with todays bullets?

A number of regulations have been adopted since the 1960s, many of them seemingly arbitrary.

HOWEVER, that does not grant license for people to disregard them. African prisons are not nice places, from what I hear.

Instead of dicking around trying to skirt the law, become a) familiar with the regulations of the country you intend to hunt, and b) proficient with a cartridge considered legal for the game.

George

quote:

Instead of dicking around trying to skirt the law, become a) familiar with the regulations of the country you intend to hunt, and b) proficient with a cartridge considered legal for the game.

Well stated!

Yes I have killed a few buffalo with the .338, with solids and with the 300 gr. RN Woodliegh soft..It kills them with good bullet placement as one would expect, and the only reason its not legal is because the rules were made before the caliber came about....

BUT I have also killed Buffalo with a 7x57, 8x57 and military ball ammo that only every 3rd one fired, with a 308 and a 30-06, and both 9.3s, but that DOES NOT make a buffalo rifle out of any of them, it is more in the form of a stunt, such as using a 45-70, archery and muzzle loaders...

I would not recommend a 338 for buffalo if you are not impaired and have need for a lower recoiling rifle or if you were a child or a woman and only then with plenty of backup...

My choice is the 416 Rem, 404 Jeffersy and up, I love the .470 on the black bulls and a 375 H&H will do....I came to this conclusion from using those smaller calibers, bulls just live too long after a hit with lesser calibers IMO...

I am sure some will disagree with me, and I am only stating my opinnion for what its worth. Would I hunt Buff again with a .338, yes, I would hunt buff with a rock if thats all I had, but I would never recommend someone else do such things as I have done, it was foolish then and is now, to which I must plead guilty.

George,
your not skirting the law, if a game scout allows you to shoot a whatever then it becomes legal, and they will all allow that in most places...they are the supreme law in that camp, or so its been explained to me by some very high ranking officials...however I still agree with your post, why bother when anyone can use a recommended caliber in the first place.

.

Alfie,
That is a distinct possibility, which means, in effect, that one must dip into the other pocket!
Aw, Africa, I like the way they do business!!

I hear a lot of praise for the 338, but if it is illegal for dangerous game, has a smaller diameter bullet and yet has more recoil than a 375 H&H, what is to love about it? I ask out of ignorance as I have never shot one. Please help me out.

Frankly, I find that the .375 is much more comfortable, perhaps because mine weighs 9.5 lbs and the .338's I've fired were significantly lighter. Still, there is a difference between recoil energy and recoil velocity. The latter hurts worse because it snaps into you faster. Again, frontal area helps. I know that the question was about the .338 bullet that expands to .375. Fine, but the .375 expands to over .40. How can that be worse?

One gun to rule them all . . .

.

SBT, the .338 Win. Mag. has nearly the energy of a .375 H&H, but a rifle in .338 is lighter to carry, and the ammo is lighter to carry as well.

Personally, I like the .338 Win. Mag. better than the .375 H&H for general-use, and for 98% of whatever you'd hunt in Africa, the .338 is more than plenty of rifle.

I see the .375 as neither fish nor foul. I'd rather carry a .300 or .338 for plainsgame and leopard, and a .416 or .458 for the big, tough stuff.

AD

The .338 Mags. are fine for the big cats, especially over bait, when a deliberate shot can be taken at an animal that is unaware of your presence.

This caliber is used on huge brown bears in the USA, Canada and in Russia all the time to excellent effect.

Even if it were legal--which it definitely isn't--a .338 would not be my first choice on any other African DG. It's not that it wouldn't work, but just that there's so much better out there. So why handicap yourself?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
George,
your not skirting the law, if a game scout allows you to shoot a whatever then it becomes legal, and they will all allow that in most places...they are the supreme law in that camp, or so its been explained to me by some very high ranking officials...however I still agree with your post, why bother when anyone can use a recommended caliber in the first place.

Ray, as you well know, while a game guard may authorize a .338 for DG, he won't do it in writing (if he could write), so your butt might still end up in jail if some local commissar decides to use the 'violation' to extort money from your family.

Also, I am concerned that some of these questions are designed to extract admissions of 'unlawful conduct'.

Those admissions may be quoted by animal rights and anti-hunting groups as part of their campaigns to end hunting, or they may be forward to government agencies to investigate as violations of the Lacey Act.

So I suggest to our Members that they refrain from admitting to such violations here, or anywhere else.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I been looking at diffrent calibers for a upcoming DG & PG hunt the .338 RUM, .338 Lapua, and .338-378 wby all have more FPE at any range than the .375 H&H. If a Barnes TSX is used they will expand to a larger cal, than .375 so why not use one of these rounds.

This is the kind of question I expect from the ignorant and inexperienced.

Makes me wonder if Dr. B. is another Carmelo alias. Or just a dim bulb.

George,
Based on some years dealing with gamescouts and Africa in general, I think your post is an over reaction, just my opinnion...

In the Africa I know, and specifically in Tanzania, there is a little bit illegal and a lot illegal, and one needs to know the difference...All the PHs do..