I phoned Zen earlier in the morning about the incident.

As he said on the video he stabbed the buff 3 times.

On the 1st 2 stabs the blade went in about 8 inches.

The last stab the blade got stuck on the rib bones.

You will also notice that he stabbed the bull high in the lungs where the rib bones are further apart than lower down.

On the question of why he did not carry a rifle...

His job was to track the buff until he found it and then call his dad on the radio. He will then bring the clients in for the final stalk and shot.

There were 3 people with heavy caliber rifles. It should have been more than enough.

I hope that answer the questions asked.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

On the question of why he did not carry a rifle...

His job was to track the buff until he found it and then call his dad on the radio. He will then bring the clients in for the final stalk and shot.

There were 3 people with heavy caliber rifles. It should have been more than enough.

I hope that answer the questions asked.

I just don't understand how you can track a buffalo without a rifle!! As far as i know tracking a wonded buffalo can be dangerous

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

On the question of why he did not carry a rifle...

His job was to track the buff until he found it and then call his dad on the radio. He will then bring the clients in for the final stalk and shot.

There were 3 people with heavy caliber rifles. It should have been more than enough.

I hope that answer the questions asked.

I just don't understand how you can track a buffalo without a rifle!! As far as i know tracking a wonded buffalo can be dangerous

He kept his distance...

Distance or space give you time to move out of the way...

As Zen did when the buff charged him.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:
I phoned Zen earlier in the morning about the incident.

As he said on the video he stabbed the buff 3 times.

On the 1st 2 stabs the blade went in about 8 inches.

The last stab the blade got stuck on the rib bones.

You will also notice that he stabbed the bull high in the lungs where the rib bones are further apart than lower down.

On the question of why he did not carry a rifle...

His job was to track the buff until he found it and then call his dad on the radio. He will then bring the clients in for the final stalk and shot.

There were 3 people with heavy caliber rifles. It should have been more than enough.

I hope that answer the questions asked.

I can't see a knife stabbed in this manner going into a buff 8 inches, it seems where he is stabbing to get to the lungs he would have to go though the shoulder blade, thats not going to happen with any knife. Why didn't he pick up is Dads rifle? and the client should have been shooting a lot closer to the buffalo lucky he didn't hit the Son or father.

I wont be an armchair juror or keyboard expert on buffalo/calibres/hunting methods.
But in my modest opinion,
1. one client froze after he tried running but ran straight into the cameraman,hell he was keen to hunt is own buff.
If he is on here will he say what happened or why he froze after he tried to runaway, I doubt it, probably turn into a buff hunt of the century.
2.the other client with a 470 shot too far back,at least he had a go and tried to put the buffalo down, good on him.Maybe we could get his side of it.
3.whether knifeman was tracking too close,without a rifle, armed just with a knife,his hair was too long, or he had the wrong colour shirt on or whatever doesn`t matter a bit, it matters about as much as how deep the stabs were !
I take my hat off to the man, he went at the buffalo which was trying to kill his dad with the only thing he had, a knife, while shouting at the client to shoot!
It doesn`t matter if the buff was dying,dead or very much alive,the boy did good.
Gerhard,I hope you tell him some people on here haven`t critized his actions one bit.

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:

Looks like a nice knife for this nearly impossible job, maybe particularly if a little different technique had been used.

Do ya get do-overs?

Maybe they just needed an anesthesiologist to prep the bull? Maybe?

Steve,
Regarding bullfighting:
The puntilla, while used on almost 100% of bulls nowadays, used to be considered a disgrace.
That said, I believe your comment was more concerning knife placement.

QUOTE]
I just don't understand how you can track a buffalo without a rifle!! As far as i know tracking a wonded buffalo can be dangerous[/QUOTE]

You probably need to ask the thousands of trackers employed by PH's that question. They do it regularly.

Had I been the father, I would have kicked my camera totting son for filming instead of throwing the video camera (possibly on the buff head ) away and coming to my rescue with .... a knife,or his bare hands! Shit I know who i would give my inheritance to if I was him

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
QUOTE]
I just don't understand how you can track a buffalo without a rifle!! As far as i know tracking a wonded buffalo can be dangerous

You probably need to ask the thousands of trackers employed by PH's that question. They do it regularly.[/QUOTE]

But they have back-up in the PH(s) and possibly one or more clients. Plus in a normal scenario, tracker is never alone as this guy was, so your ratio of being the buffs target is lower

That is the one thing i also can't figure out though - if Zen was knowingly tracking a wounded buffalo heading into thick brush in a ravine on foot armed with a knife, while his armed PH father was sitting in a car waiting to be called by radio we must be missing something here? Gerhard, do you know why that was the follow-up method applied?

I didn't know that there was a method of tracking that involved the PH and client to sit in the car? is this called the "lazy Ph method"?

Mc,
ebu tulia kidogo. We bado mgeni nyumbani ya mtu.

quote:

But they have back-up in the PH(s) and possibly one or more clients. Plus in a normal scenario, tracker is never alone as this guy was, so your ratio of being the buffs target is lower

That is the one thing i also can't figure out though - if Zen was knowingly tracking a wounded buffalo heading into thick brush in a ravine on foot armed with a knife, while his armed PH father was sitting in a car waiting to be called by radio we must be missing something here? Gerhard, do you know why that was the follow-up method applied?

Who said anything about a car???

Is this maybe the way its done in Tanzania?

Assumption is the mother ...

Didn't Theodore Roosevelt and later John Kennedy say something like:

"It is not the critic who counts,

but the man in the arena.

Whose face is marred by dust, sweat and blood

and knows if he fails

he will never be with the cold timid souls who have never tried

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

quote:

Originally posted by Caracal:

quote:

Originally posted by Gerhard.Delport:

On the question of why he did not carry a rifle...

His job was to track the buff until he found it and then call his dad on the radio. He will then bring the clients in for the final stalk and shot.

There were 3 people with heavy caliber rifles. It should have been more than enough.

I hope that answer the questions asked.

I just don't understand how you can track a buffalo without a rifle!! As far as i know tracking a wonded buffalo can be dangerous

He kept his distance...

Distance or space give you time to move out of the way...

As Zen did when the buff charged him.

My experience in tracking is limited to plains game, deer and boars but even with them it's impossile to keep the distance all the time. It happens that you get very close before you notice that the animal is behind a bush or something.
I would never ever follow a dangerous animal without a gun. I am maybe just not brave enough

quote:

Originally posted by Singleshot03:
Didn't Theodore Roosevelt and later John Kennedy say something like:

"It is not the critic who counts,

but the man in the arena.

Whose face is marred by dust, sweat and blood

and knows if he fails

he will never be with the cold timid souls who have never tried

I agree, nothing like being subjected to the AR jury after a sudden, violent and life-threatening experience!

I admire the man's cojones for stabbing an enraged buffalo rather than shitting himself like many people would do in the scenario. Too easy for us to all pile in with armchair advice now, I'm sure they would do the follow-up a bit differently in hind sight!

Yeah, it's called 'talk is cheap'.

hey forget the coldsteel knife, try balls of steel.

well done mate

dont forget Harry Wolhuter along the olifants river. but that being said the knife did not kill it but hell well done you guys and coldsteel on making a bad situation go a mile....

box of cigs for the person who knows how much coldsteels knife sales soared after the release of this video. there is no such thing as bad publicity

The guy was brave to go after the buff with a knife, but there is no way the knife killed the buff. Abysmal advertisement by Cold Steel.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

Amazing how times have changed.

Harry Wolhuter went to England, and bought a number of knives like the one he used to actually kill the lion, and when he told the man who made the knife that he had killed a lion with it, I believe his answer was "oh yeah" or something like that.

In fact, Harry could have said the knife killed the lion, and he would have been telling the truth.

Today, cold steel wanted to benefit from the bravery of one man, and claim that their knife killed the buffalo.

I remember a friend who is in the advertising business saying that they tend to stretch the truth a bit.

In this case it is just a bold face lie really.

here here

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Amazing how times have changed.

I remember a friend who is in the advertising business saying that they tend to stretch the truth a bit.

In this case it is just a bold face lie really.

yes but i bet that he said it with a grin and a wink to one eye..... hey lets face it, i like your ads in african hunter, they tickle me pink and are spot on. the above(coldsteel) is explotation but that it is

So it was Zen yelling "shoot him" while trying to stab through those buffalo ribs?
Good man.

Silly knife advertizing, but at least it adds a bit of humor to the whole situation.

A big bore revolver would work better than an Arkansas Toothpick ... best have Flat Nose solids made of brass, with a 65% to 75% sharp-edged-TCFN meplat ... fast and heavy as possible from the revolver.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
So it was Zen yelling "shoot him" while trying to stab through those buffalo ribs?
Good man.

Silly knife advertizing, but at least it adds a bit of humor to the whole situation.

A big bore revolver would work better than an Arkansas Toothpick ... best have Flat Nose solids made of brass, with a 65% to 75% sharp-edged-TCFN meplat ... fast and heavy as possible from the revolver.

Tale this back to the Big Bore Forum nuthouse!

A Coldsteel for Buff and a SureFire for Lion!
appears SF may also have had something to do with this Buff kill ...

Cold Steel knife kills cape buffalo,
Sure Fire flashlight kills simba,
and a grin from Davy Crockett was lethal to raccoons ...

Will,
About the FN solid: Preaching to the choir, I know, but done just in case I might enlighten some lonely Luddite who is still clinging bitterly to his nostalgia and round nose solids.

I have found FN solids to penetrate cape buffalo hearts from any angle.
If only one of those many bullets shot into the buffalo had been an FN solid, the knife would not have been necessary!

Dr. Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy: "I'm a doctor, not a physicist!"

I looked at the video. Pretty intense stuff. He was a brave young man.

I completely get the son trying to help the dad. I wonder why he didn't take a gun away from one of the clients and use it to finish the buff?

I wonder what words were exchanged with the client that lost it? I will bet the client isn't telling the story often.

As they say, all is well that ends well. The father could have been killed easily. I am glad no one was killed.

I saw two extremely brave men.

You guys are missing the whole point of this. Being the dogmatic dangerous game experts that most of us are there should be only one point of focus on the subject of this video.

Was the knife a push feed or a CRF and what was the twist rate? Also did the knife meet the required ME and bore diameter to make it legal for buff hunting in the RSA?

Focus guys focus!!

quote:

Was the knife a push feed or a CRF... ?

!!!

+++++++++++++++++

I'm glad everyone lived to tell the story.

What's happened to the video. I watched it once and now the site won't allow another view. Have to belong to vimeo?

A good vid to remember when the weight of the rifle starts to feel too heavy....

I always have a Cold Steel OSS as backup when going after wild boars that have been shot at.

Buff??

No thanks.

I'm not going to analyze, I found it interesting and entertaining and since i've never been in that situation can't say whether the knife was effective or not. I do have a couple questions though.

1. why didn't somebody, i.e. 470 guy, walk right up and put the muzzle right up to the MF buffalo and pull the trigger? take a lot of the guesswork out of might hit somebody

2. is it just bad form to out the POS with the 375 (meaning tell other clients, hey this jackass is a pansy and could get you killed)? yes, 375 is enough gun, if you can shoot worth *&#t. then he panicked and wouldn't relinquish the gun? Yeah, I think in my camp there'd be an old fashion ass whipping after the fact.

3. how big was the tip the guy left?

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:


1. why didn't somebody, i.e. 470 guy, walk right up and put the muzzle right up to the MF buffalo and pull the trigger? take a lot of the guesswork out of might hit somebody

2. is it just bad form to out the POS with the 375 (meaning tell other clients, hey this jackass is a pansy and could get you killed)? yes, 375 is enough gun, if you can shoot worth *&#t. then he panicked and wouldn't relinquish the gun? Yeah, I think in my camp there'd be an old fashion ass whipping after the fact.

3. how big was the tip the guy left?

Red

My thoughts exactly.....

I can guarantee you that the client would have handed me his .375 one way or another. About the second time he was getting butt stroked by his own rifle I am positive that he would have had a whole new perception about sharing his toys with others.

Same with the .470 comment if you can't get a clear shot at the vitals walk over and slip one through the hips that's a good place to start if you haven't got anything else.

Of course talk is cheap and you need to have mentally prepared for these things before they happen because a person never rises to the occasion but will fall to the level of his training in a stress situation.

And beside all that...If was going to start carrying something on my belt to kill a cape buff with...it would be a Freedom Arms .454 Casull...not any kind of knife.

I have no dog in that fight, but I wonder:

Could the DR 470 shooter have run out of ammo?
How many rounds does one carry when DG hunting with a DR?

When hunting with my 375 H&H bolt rifle, other than what's in the mag, I carry 5 extra in my pocket. The balance are at camp.