When working up a Soft load/solid load ammo combination, do you find it difficult to get the same groups with the same powder load?

For example: Barnes 300gr TSX and 300gr Flat nosed solid in a 375 H&H (or any other brands)

Do you need to use matching bullets weight only or is equal BC needed too.

Does matching manufacturers bullets make it easier?

I have never tried it but am planning to work up a couple of soft/solid loads for my 375 & my 9.3x62.

I am just looking to learn from your experiences before I start.


Thanks,
Lance

Riodot; I had a relatively easy experience in matching softs to solids in both my 375 H&H and 416 Rigby. I think the larger bores are a bit more forgiving in that regard. In my case, I used 300gr Swift Aframes and old style (copper& steel) 300 gr Hornady solids for the 375 and the same combo (410gr Solids) for the Rigby. They both shot pretty close to the same. jorge

Riodot,

As jorge suggested it can be quite easy or it can give you serious heart burn. In some cases you are going to have to cut back the velocity of one bullet or another to get them to print together. On the other hand sometimes you have a fluke such as a load I had for a 416 Remington. A 350 X and a 400 gr TBSH hit in the same 1.5" group even though their velocity was nearly 200 fps different. Weird! It's just a process of trial and error.

Good luck!

Mark

Riodot brings up an interesting aspect of all the information we bandy about concerning reloads. If people have good success getting a solid and a soft to impact at the same point, they should share their loads. They may not work for everyone but I would bet that people could get closer. I would love to see loads for the 375 H&H, the 416 Rigby and the 404 Jeffery.

Here you go Wink:
375 H&H 2575 fps
76gr H-414
Winchester brass
Fed 215M primer
300gr Swift A Frame/ Hornady steel/copper solid light crimped with Lee Factory Crimp die

416 Rigby: 2400 fps
90.2 IMR 4350
Norma Brass
Fed 215M primer
400gr Swift/410gr Hornady (or 400 Hornady)
Light crimp with Lee factory crimp die.

jorge

just a point of interest. over the years I've noticed that my best shooting rifles shoot most loads to close to the same impact point. Yes one load shoots better in this or that rifle, but in my most accurate ones - they shoot most loads close together.

Riodot,

Unless you are going to be hunting elephants, I suggest you use one of the bullets made of copper.

You can use these for everything. And if you are going to be hunting elephants, the range is so short point of impact is not going to make that much of a difference.

At least that has been my own experience.

What I did is work with Superior Ammuniton. I had my soft points (180 gr, TBBc, .300 win mag) sighted in and shooting well. I contacted Superior, and they sent me a "test pack" of soilds. The test pack consisted of 20 rds with slightly different amounts of powder, each color coded. I shot the different loads and picked the "color" that best matched my TBBC's. I called them up, told them which color shot the best and they sent me 20 custom solids for my .300. I was able to make a 300yd shot on a baboon with one of the soilds, so they worked great for me. If you don't have the equipment or time to find a good match yourself, I would recommend Superior. They did a great job for me.

http://www.superiorammo.com/

Doc makes a very good point. Larry at Superior does a great job and works with these kinds of problems on a daily basis. I had a 375 that was driving me crazy and he had ir shooting 2 softs and solids into an inch in nothing flat.

Mark

For my 375 H&H I use 79gr of H-4350 with 300 gr partitions and old style Hornady 300 gr solids. Both go around 2,550 and the solids hit about 1" lower than the softs.

In my 465 and 470 doubles Woodleigh solids and softs hit to the same point of impact with any powder charge.

465H&H

416 Rigby in a CZ model

400 gr Barnes solid (old type, not the new banded one) COL 3.6" 97gr RL-19

400 gr Swift A-frame COL 3.62" 101 gr RL-25

I didn't get a chance to Chrono, but my friend took a couple of buff, a hippo, and other stuff in Tanzania. I had them shooting 1-1/2" or better at 100 yards with 4 shots of each. They were extremely consistant. The reloader 25 is a very good powder for the big cartridges. I use in my 338 RUM and it's very consistant velocity and accuracy wise. I happened on the Swift load in their manual.

Reloader 22 is the most popular, but accuracey wasn't as good.

Last year I took the following to Zambia:

300Gr Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claw
300Gr Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer

I couldn't tell any noticeable point of impact difference, at least with the low power scope on my .375. I basically zeroed with the soft point and figured the only reason I would need the solids was for a hurried follow up or charge by Buffalo, where exact point of impact wasn't as critical. Happily they both shot the same.

Enough already. Here's how to do it. Shoot a ladder with each bullet. That is, load starting with light, work to max by 1/3 or 1/2 grain increments. Shoot a target with each bullet, about 12-15 rounds. Overlay the targets. If it doesn't work, try a different soft or solid.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Riodot,

Unless you are going to be hunting elephants, I suggest you use one of the bullets made of copper.

You can use these for everything. And if you are going to be hunting elephants, the range is so short point of impact is not going to make that much of a difference.

At least that has been my own experience.

My thoughts on this were to use the solids in case I happened on a Duiker or the like while carrying a bigger bore - you know, try not to blow it in half! I would guess it would help for the full body mounts of the "tiny ten".

Riodot,

I am shooting Barnes TSX 300gr with 71 grs of RL 15 and Bridger solids 300gr... They are shooting X's at 100yds. Same powder charge for both...
Winchester mod. 70 African...

Mike

The Fedral 300gr TB Bearclaw standard velocity load shoots very, very well im my 375H&H.

The SledgeHammer shot 3" low and 3" left, even at 25yds.

So a Woodleigh solids load that shoots maybe a half inch higher at 50yds and into the same small groups at 100yds as the 300gr TBBC softs, at least in my rifle:

300gr Woodleigh solid
R-P case
73.5gr of IMR 4350
Fed 215 primer
Crimped at the cannelure.

JPK

I have figured this would be very particular to the rifle. Many rifles shoot anything to pretty much the same POI. My .458 Lott is distressing: at 100 yards, the Hornady commercial soft loads -- or my hand loads using the Hornady softs -- all shoot 3" right of just about everything else I've tried, including lion loads, AGS, and Hornady solids. I'm going to try Woodleigh Weldcores to see if they also group with the others. If it were 1" or so, I might not mind; 3" is a bit much for my tastes...

Dan

My Winchester Model 70 Safari Classic shoots the North Fork 370 grain soft one inch higher than the same weight North Fork flatpoint solids. At 50 yards they are in virtually the same hole. Both served me well in the Selous for Buffalo. Good shooting.

I set my 375 up so that when a 300gr Nosler Partition (2540 fps) was hitting 1" high at 100 yards a 300gr solid (2475 fps) was dead-on at 50 yards. Turns out I didn't need any solids as my buff was a "bang-flop" at 50 yards with the 300gr Nosler.

300 grain Federal TBBC and 300 grain Sledgehammer solid in same group at 100 yds in my pre 63 mdl 70 but I have a sako that doesnt like sledgehammers so I use woodleighs for it.

Hello all. This is my first post I have been observing the dialog fo some time. In my Ruger .458 Lott I load 80gr H4895, Norma brass, Fed L/R match primers. I am pushing Barnes 5oo grain baneded solids and 500gr TSX. They cut the same hole at 50 yards and are still touching at 100 yards. Muzzle velocity on both is 2290 fps.
I purchased this rifle 3 months ago to start settingup for my first trip to Africa in 2008 for my 40th birthday. I put a Luepold 1 1/2X5 30mm illuminated scope on it but find I shoot it nerely as well with open sights.
I guess this is my intro. I truly enjoy the open exchange of information that I have observed.

Semper Fi to the Marines on the Sight. I was a 6025 1986-1992

Has anyone managed to duplicate the Federal Premium Woodleigh 416 Rigby load? If so I would be grateful to know which powder/weight etc.
Cheers
Ed

Riodot,

In my 450 Dakota I was able to co-locate point of impact with several different bullets.



Pictured are results at 100 yards with a 3X scope and a "triad" of North Forks.

Matching muzzle velocity seemed to be the major factor.

For instance, a 500 grain at 2350 fps shot 3-4 inches below a 450 grain at 2550 fps.

Windage was not much of a problem.

Andy

Thanks to all for the feedback - it will all help me.

I just began working on this problem with my .416 Rem. In this case, my first loads with Hornaday solids shot 2" lower than my Nosler partitions -- loads otherwise identical (400 gr, same powder/charge)... Since they are in a vertical line, I can move one up or the other down... or simply live with it.

Dan

Well this may not be what was on your mind but I came up with an interesting combo for my .30-06.

I shoot 168 gr. Federal Premium BTSP's zero at 200 yards or ~1.8 inches high at 100 yards.

On my second trip to Africa I wanted to shoot something that didn't explode the little antelope, jackals, etc. I don't own a big bore..........someday.

I got some 150 gr. FMJ military surplus and it shot exactly dead on at 100 yards.

Unfortunately the that year the grass was up to 8 feet tall and the liffle antelopes were not easy prey so I didn't get to field test that load.

I seem to have the same experience as Mr. Kraus. Looking at out-of-the-box accuracy, you can generally depend on the combination of Trophy Bonded Bearclaw and Sledgehammer for good interchangability.