The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Introduction of someone who doesn't fit in here?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Introduction of someone who doesn't fit in here? | Login/Join |
| new member |
Hello all, As you can see, I'm new to this place here, and I wish to introduce myself now. My name: shouldn't yet be of importance for you My age: I'm 23 My Profession: Watchmaker Where I live: Switzerland My interests: nature (the study of animal kingdom mainly, paleontology, working with animals), computers, programming, sailing, technology Volunteer jobs: I used to preparate fossils some years ago, wildlife protection, care of big cats in captivity Special about me: I'm doing military service (swiss militia) and, now the most important for you to know, I detest hunting Did I already hunt an animal? ironically, yes, I did hunt rabbits, in a survival training of the army. So, you might ask you now... why is the guy posting here? No, I won't turn up on people who hunt. It has a rational purpose for me to post here: currently I study big cats in captivity (in no bad form, they have a great life where I work with them), and the irony wants it that I need behavioral "samples" of wild lions for my studies. I myself haven't ever been to Africa (but I plan to, of course), and so I told me - why don't you go to the people who actually experience these animals closer than anyone else in the wild? Many scientists out of the field of biology did do so, and maybe the time has come for me to at least have certain profit of what caused (and eventually still causes) the danger to the most endangered group of animals (yet I'm aware of the fact that trophy hunting is controlled and finances the care for animals in hunting areas). So, are there any lion hunters or people who experienced attacks of lions, who could provide me with informations of how these animals act in the wild, and specially, how they react on people obviously attacking them? Also, I would like to know - do you have any members here who already shot man-eaters (that as a part of my studies is of big interest for me)? (Leopards and Lions of course) [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | ||
|
| one of us |
I guess the question to ask is did you actual kill the rabbit. My brother tells the story of his survival training where they were given chickens to kill he ended up killing most of them for his class mates. What you well find on this site is lots of hunting ,shooting and killing. My guess is your welcome until you start on any anti hunting rants. | |||
|
One of Us |
lions have been studied to death. There is plenty of scientific literature out there and also plenty of junk. They kill and eat when they are hungry and sleep the rest of the time. What else do you need to know? | |||
|
| new member |
That is, however, something I know... and it isn't the basic behavior of pantherinae I want to know more about, since I myself know these well engouh from the park where I study the cats. What I'm watching out for that are hunting reports where man came into close contact with the cats. It is for me part of additional evidence I'll use in my papers (and the writers will or will not be credited, just how they prefer it [however, only credited texts can be seen as evidence]). Also, I want to find out how many encounters of man-eaters actually happen, what percentage of it happens intentionally or accidentally. (Panthera leo has great potential for aggressivity and for learning to hunt various prey species in a very specialized way) Since I'm absolutely not into the hunting scene, I'd also enjoy some links to already written reports. (while I really detest hunting for enjoyment or commercial reasons [that simply is my opinion, I hope you can live with it], I think it's always important to know both sides of a story. Only that way you'll find the truth behind something, and that's exactly what I want. Only reading other scientific accounts about it doesn't help much there, so, I like to experience it directly at the source) [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
One of Us |
Kovu, I wish you well and thank you for your honesty. Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
|
| new member |
Well, thank you, I really don't have the intention to piss people off. It's special enough for me to be posting here. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't care to hunt big cats personally, but have no interest in helping anyone who opposes managed hunting of any species, including lions. Without the economic value contributed by hunters, the residents would kill all the lions (and most anything else) in short order. Trophy hunting of tigers has not been allowed for years but they are much more endangered than lions. As far as I'm concerned, you need to go chase a few more rabbits. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
|
| new member |
That are things I'm aware of. And I'm not blaming anyone on it. (besides that - why do people always interpretate my signature wrong? It has, specially in that case, nothing to say. I use it on all forums I visit, currently - it's only related to the campaign I'm helping these days, to stop the killing of highly endangered animals in Siberia, India and China [which happens illegally, and will always happen that way]) [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| One of Us |
You seem honest enough, maybe someone can help you out. Litterature -hunting litt that is- is a good way to get started, might try some of the vintage hunters like Selous, Bell etc. I think many writers, starting with Hemingway, "add on" to their stories to make them more enticing. | |||
|
one of us |
Read this. Link | |||
|
| new member |
Alright, thank you for the links  [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm sorry I won't be able to help you, since I don't have any experience with close cat encounters. Just a comment on your introduction.... If you don't want to tell us your name, that is your choice, but please don't patronize me by telling me "it shouldn't yet be of importance" to me. I can make up my own mind about that. In fact, I do think it is of importance. A lot of the bickering on forums like this stems from the fact that many hide behind fake identities. I like to restrict myself to comments that I would also make looking a person in the eye. Your honesty about your position on hunting is appreciated, your choice of words is not too wise. If you "detest" what I do, why sollicit my cooperation? Just some thoughts. Frans | |||
|
| new member |
Frans, I have my reasons not to tell you yet how my real name is, at least I don't want to let everyone know it. Those who get into closer contact with me, will know soon enough. About the choice of words... I suggest you to think about one thing: I don't think it's wise to hide your convictions. Sooner or later people will find out. I registered here with the intention to profit about knowledge you people have, as well as to understand why people hunt, and even more important - how they do it. It isn't my intention actually to discuss hunting, since I dislike it, and it's wise to tell you about it. Yet that doesn't mean we can't discuss in a friendly manner. PS: I don't FULLY deny hunting. Man is an omnivorous predator, and that is a fixed part in our life. Hunting for survival is technically ok, while I simply don't understand how someone hunts for enjoyment - or how someone can hunt a species to extinction (that one is not in reference to trophy hunting). [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Kovu One thng that disturbs me about your icon is the wording. Making a statement about killing 'someone' while showing pictures of animals bothers me. I have some experience with a man/child eating Leopard and a child eating Hyena. Neither one is a particularly fond memory. What sort of information are you looking for? I suggest that when you do get to Africa you avoid the photographic Safaris and try and do your research in a hunting block. The animals in the Photo areas are very similiar to your captive animals and are very acclimated towards people, much like animals in National Parks. They act very differently than the ones that actually are in the wild. I would suggest that the Photo Tourism aspect does more harm to animals than sport hunting ever will. | |||
|
| new member |
It's the philosophy behind this sig. An animal is definately more to me than just a "thing" you can treat just as you like it. Any animal has a personality, and most animals have a certain degree of intelligence. They think and feel as we do too. I admit it's wrong to call them equally intelligent to man (well, it's just factual [and I know animal friends do postulate that often, sadly]), but they have personality - and they interpretate the things that happen around them. The statement of it simply is that you don't just erase a "drawn cartoon character" by their extinction, you erase personalities that will never again return.
Well, what interests me most are the years it happened, and what kind of behavior the man-eaters did show back then. Cats are excellent at developing their own strategy to prey on specific species that originally don't even belong to their food. Also, I'd like to know if they hunted in groups, in families (abnormal behavior can come up with man-eating), oh... and interesting would also be if they had injuries that would have affected their normal hunting behavior, or if they were aged. (worn or broken teeth that may have made them unable to prey on bigger game and such)
I suppose so. I'm looking forward to probably get a volunteer job by earthwatch or so by then, where I eventually could help at field work of biologists. Thanks for the suggestion though!
At a certain degree, yes. Also, the problem is that most people lose the respect to the greatest predators by it. Most of them forget that Lions and Tigers simply aren't any pets. On the other hand, it's my conviction that certain animals have to adapt to human population. Predators more and more get into conflicts with man, simply because we are overpopulated - if there's a chance for them to survive - then it's mostlikely the option to adapt to live with mankind. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Kovu: You might want to contact someone in South African parks department familiar with Kruger. It was my understanding the lions of Kruger became very effective preying on people fleeing Mozambique through the park. I have heard this from a couple PHs in that area. I recall reading an article about this. Perhaps a search of lions/Kruger might unearth some info for you. | |||
|
| new member |
thank you, good suggestion! [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
Kovu, I've shot a few cats but nothing really life threatening happened during these hunts. I honestly think the vast majority of big cat hunts end up with very little drama. I'm just enough paranoid to think there is a possibility that any story related to you about a cat hunt/encounter might end up when published with a negative slant toward hunting. You may be legitimate but what appears to be your rabid disgust for hunting makes me suspicious. Your signature obviously shows that you think hunitng is the demise of the tiger orother big cats. No thanks! Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| new member |
To be honest, I understand that. Yet, you've to know I'm a rationalist. I love animals more than anything else, specially predatory lifeforms. But these studies I'm working on are held scientifically, and in natural history, every representant is seen just as an organism, an organism who has certain advantages compared to others, and therefore rules out the more "primitive" one. Man belongs to the "circle of life" as well as a lion does. Therefore, you can be sure I won't blame any people on something here. In fact, I have to be thankful when I get the informations I want here - a better source simply doesn't exist. And, of course, hunting is responsible for the upcoming extinction of tigers. They are commercially (and illegally) hunted for their skins (and some other spiritual purposes in china), and - since they are my favorite animals (or better said "organisms" at all) - I'll do everything I can to protect them. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Part of the cause of the Lions in Kruger is that the Game Department routinely left bodies of poachers in the Park. Combined with a learned behavior to not fear man the animals got used to the free lunch and decided to get it fresher. Much like the Lions at Tsavo started out eating dead workers. Kuvu Leopards seem to being doing quite well. Like Coyotes in the US they adapt to population extremely quickly. I think you will see more and more Leopard problems as the years go buy. | |||
|
One of Us |
Firstly I don't have any experience with maneaters and haven't hunted any of the big cats. But some of the following might be of interest to you. In John Dawkin's book "Rogues and Maneaters" he describes an area in Tanzania where maneaters where quite prevalent. But they were seasonally maneaters. When the principal herds of grazers migrated the food source of the resident lion prides decreased and as a result the lions started to kill more humans. This is a historical account from the 1960's (date from memory only). Do lion prides migrate with the wildebeest herds? Or do some or most stay resident? Are maneaters truly maneaters ie old or infirm beasts or creatures of opportunity? If you haven't found his books before find the books of Jim Corbett whom was a noted hunter of maneating tigers and leopards in India. some of these beasts were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of humans. "Man eaters of Kumaon" is one of his books. He like a lot of many hunters was also a naturalist and wanted wildlife preserved for the future. His books are not scientific, more adventure yarns but maybe they will be of some use. On the other hand many people in wildlife areas of India co-exist with the big cats on a daily basis and more or less are ignored by them. Another historical reference are those of Col Patterson the engineer responsible for building part of the Mombasa to Nairobi (and beyond) railway in Kenya in the beginning of the 20th century. Two lions reportedly caused the disruption of the building of the railway for many days or weeks. Many of the Indian and native workers on the line were killed by the maneaters until Patterson hunted them down. Non maneating lion account. I know of one safari camp where lions stalked and killed waterbuck only metres away from the dining table of a safari camp, while the dinner was being eaten. Lions attacked the herd from many directions including rushing right past the human diners. Basically ignored the humans. On another day, maybe a human might have become lunch. I must say your approach to this thread while trying to appear unconfrontational is confrontational. The display of the signature was designed to be provocative. Saying you detest hunting was designed to get a negative reaction IMO. A good book for you to read is "The Wildlife Game" by Ron Thomson, about sustainable wildlife management and conservation in Africa, and how if wild populations have no value to the local populations they local populations, who often are in danger from the wildlife, being eaten, mauled, having their crops destroyed by marauding elephants for example and maybe a villager or two killed occasionally. Westerners sitting in their quaint little houses in a manicured environment often have no concept of life and death. BTW I love animals too and work with them, both wild and tame, almost every day. But hunting is just another means to putting food on the table and is an enjoyable pastime for those in touch with their genetic physiology. Buying food in a concrete cave known as a "supermarket" is unnatural. Man is a predator if one has eyes to see. Front facing eyes and teeth designed to cut meat as well as grind vegetable matter. But how on earth are you going to change the behaviour of wild animals: "On the other hand, it's my conviction that certain animals have to adapt to human population. " Man you have to get out of the city a bit more. These are instincts created over thousands or millions of years.  This is a disturbing comment that you made: "Predators more and more get into conflicts with man, simply because we are overpopulated ... " It shows the usual Greenie contempt for their fellow human beings and the usual elitist attitudes of the same. No doubt about human overpopulation, the wildlife deserts, otherwise known as cities are classic examples of that. Usually where most Greenies are found too. If you want to find the true causes of loss of the big cats in the wild, visit the markets of Northern Burma where you will table loads of leopard and tiger skins, pizzles, other dried organs. All from poached beasts often from National Parks, and all done not for "hunting" (however "detestable" you find it) but for making some illegal trader a 'buck'. The best source for actual maneating accounts is from the professional hunters and wildlife management professionals. I have a feeling your approach may turn most of them away. Most are not on the internet anyway, as they spend a lot of time in the bush. | |||
|
One of Us |
Lions in the Kruger Park never got used to eating people because of poachers left there by the game department. If any paocher was ever shot in the park by anyone the body had to be taken to the police and reports and paper work done legally as this was the killeing of a human being. What really happened was that during the civil war in Mozambique many people were starved and couldn't make a living in their own country. They then illegally fled across the border into South Africa via the Kruger National Park. During these times early to late 1990's the lions worked out a strategy and started hunting humans. Reason: they are easy prey. Some of these lion packs became so accustomed to hunting humans that they even hunted in the normal ambush way where one lioness would sneak around and fright a person in the direction of the lying pack. My assumption - we are soft skinned aesy prey and why should they then work harder to hunt. These large predators are lazy by nature and this worked just well for them. It must be kept in mind that many people crossed the Kruger Park and I am sure it took the lions quite some time to adapt to this new prey and to figure out how to hunt them. I have done part of my military service on the Kruger/Mozambican border and saw many incidents where people crossed the park, some tried and never succeeded. There were also kills by elephant. Never were illegal immigrants shot and left for the predators to feed on, that is BS. | |||
|
| one of us |
Kovu: Since the greatest human cause of mortality to the big cats is poaching or poisoning by non-sport hunters, would you be willing to kill (a) local black African(s) to protect a cat? There has been no sport hunting of Tigers allowed in India since before you were born. At the time of the ban there was a decent population of tigers in India. Unfortunately there are precious few tigers left there now. How can that be? They have been poached or displaced by human encroachment on their habitat. Which emotion runs stronger in you; a love of the cats or a hatred of hunting? These are not easy questions . If you answer them honestly, we will take you seriously. If not, then you are merely a troll, and we will start to ignore you. lawndart  | |||
|
| new member |
Thank you, I'll consider reading them.
It is never easy to get a discussion started with people of different convictions. And yes, the sig is provocative, but only certain provocation earns reaction - no matter if positive or negative 
Which is why I never publish something without having consulted the most important parties around a topic.
Where I fully agree with you. As I already mentioned - I don't deny hunting for survival. It would be irrational to do so. Man evolved into a hunter, just as lions, tigers or wolves did.
Technically - man is an omnivore, which is what our teeth represent
I wasn't necessarily speaking of "wild" animals there. It was not more than a statement that wild animals (predators, to be more precise) will disappear with the time - and the ones who managed to live in man's environments will be able to survive. (thus, captive pantherinae belongs to them too then). Other than that: you can educate wild animals. I think specially as hunter you should be aware of this. Many animals recall dangers, where they've lost members of their groups... or lions that are regularly hunted by man seem to possibly avoid him then.
For now, I don't know if I should take this as an insult. Nature is my life. I take part on rewilding programmes in Switzerland (the lynx to name one), enjoy the military exactly out of the reason that I'm often on the countryside... and after all: it seems rather pointless to tell someone how a species evolved, when that someone once even worked as fossil preparator in a paleontological museum. Just to say that much now.
Human overpopulation is a FACT, as you pointed out yourself down there. And I'm everything else than a humanist - I'm not even religious. Of course it's sad that those millions of people have their problems like famine and epidemies... but can you change it? I doubt it. Human overpopulation is a main reason why species die out, simply due to lack of natural environments that fit their needs. After all, it's just natural... it's like the primitive prokaryonts outran other microbes and began to form the base of our life today. Not the slightest bit different.
If you'd have read my previous statements, you'd have figured out how pointless it is to write this.
That I can imagine. Yet, I believe you're showing here more prejudice than actual intellect. I appreciate your suggestion, but some of your statements were more than offending, and will surely not give the hunting scene a better image. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
one of us |
Good on you Lawndart! | |||
|
| new member |
Honestly, I'm in the army. The swiss army has the purpose to protect "humans". So, my answer is, as long as a human doesn't dangerously attack ME, or my buddies of the company, I don't kill him. I really hope I'll never have to. Will I kill someone to save a tiger? Wild tigers are dangerous. Do I know if he's doing self-defence there, or if he's killing him for the skin? Primarily I don't. Would I kill a tiger attacking me? I would. It feel fucking bad after it - but who attacks me, has to expect an answer. When I have a rifle, then the answer will be a bullet. Therefore no. I'd do an effort to save the tiger in some way, but I wouldn't shoot the person. Would I give my life to save one of the tigers I'm working with? Some of them are great friends to me, friends which I trust that they don't attack me (while many others of them still are just "dangerous"). I believe I'd do almost everything for one of those "friends", if I don't just get freezed to the ground because someone aims on them And... I don't know why I have to repeat it again and again: I know why and where the freakin' tigers are slaughtered for sheer commercial profit, don't always come up with this. The Sig is used on almost all forums I visit, it has absolutely no connection to you people here. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
India busts major tiger poaching ring 23.11.05 9.20am JAIPUR, India - Indian police have busted a tiger poaching ring responsible for killing at least 10 animals in one of its premier wildlife parks. Four poachers living in the forests surrounding the Ranthambhore reserve had confessed to killing 10 tigers and a leopard, police superintendent Alok Vasisth said. "More arrests will be made and will include those who received these tigers and those who smuggled them," he said. Local media said the poachers had confessed to killing up to 22 tigers in Ranthambhore, which is in the desert state of Rajasthan just a few hours' drive from New Delhi. Police have also recovered turtle shells and animal skins. But wildlife activists say more must be done after a rapid, unexpected fall in the tiger population was discovered this year. "The authorities are in a complete state of denial about the problem and large scale tiger poaching has not been addressed," said Belinda Wright, executive director of the Wildlife Protection Society of India. In March, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh ordered a police investigation into revelations that the number of tigers in India had plunged and that some major parks under the Project Tiger conservation programme might have none left at all. He also ordered the creation of a special wildlife "flying squad" to combat poaching. Singh has taken a personal interest in fighting the decline in numbers and visited Ranthambhore in May. Before the latest arrests, one wildlife group has estimated at least 18 of the reserve's 47 tigers had disappeared in a year. The government says poachers killed at least 114 tigers across India between 1999 and 2003, although some conservationists put the figure much higher. Just 59 died of natural causes during the same period. Trade in dead tigers is illegal but a single animal can fetch up to US$50,000 ($73,475) in the international black market and arrests and convictions are rare. Poorly paid forest rangers are suspected of helping poachers or at least turning a blind eye. Organs, teeth, bones and penises fetch high prices in the black market, where they are used in Chinese medicine. - REUTERS Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
|
| one of us |
Kovu, I am not a trophy hunter. I apologize for taking this thread out of concept: my input has nothing to do with cats, large or small. I started my hunting career as a humble part of nature, sort of back home, close to the forrest... I am no urban, pavement sort of chap.. This is often neglected, We are part of nature, humans have always been that. But a large part of the western population (civilization if you will - I will not..) is in fact an urban population living far from ANY real nature unspoiled by human endeavour, and because we have no other means than our wit to cope with nature -we may become prey. This we are - top of the food chain - as you so aptly point out in your profile - but also prey. This is a wonderful contradiction and maybe the clue to all of this notion of ecology: it is not all about a straight line, but a circle. I will go out of my way to quote a Canadian outdoorman, only because I find his thoughts beautiful. There are a lot of truths, the fox has one of them, I carry one, you are the keeper of your truth and so on: "Hunting is not simple. It is the generator of our human condition, the crucible of intellect, and the fire of creativity. It is our mirror of the world, the image maker of wild creation; it has defined how we see, literally and figuratively. It is the only absolute rediscovery mechanism available to human beings; the mind-body fusion of all meditative, spiritual experience is derived from its pasturage. Those who return there know full well the sense of universal intimacy it gives over. Explaining this odyssey is our greatest challenge; but succeeding will be our greatest achievement. The world remains perpetually absorbed by this search, yet hunters know the way. Why not celebrate the truth for a change? Hunting is a deliberate journey to the union of birth and death; it cannot but create a deeper perspective and appreciation for the glorious importance of both. What society does not dream for such citizens? Like it or not we have to search deep within ourselves, journey to the place where the mind is floating free. We have to voice what is silent; capture what is shadow. The hunt is a universe of emotion that overwhelms, scatters all notions of other preoccupations, and delivers the persona complete. Hunting is a love affair; turbulent, gnawing, and all possessing. It is composed of lives, but has a life of its own; a life held precious by the participant who, in part, creates it. But then there is the “otherâ€, unpredictable, honored. Yes! An affair of the heart; and like all such affairs it drags the mind along, a great force subjugated by the senses engaged to their fullest; but alive just the same, and capturing memories and creating fantasy’s that are nearly one and the same. Hunting is an immersion; a drowning in connectedness that squanders pride and privilege; the true hunter is the humble man, the enthralled child, and the knowing prince. All is ready, nothing is restive; all is rhythm, nothing is in friction. Hunting is knowing why the senses were made! It displaces both the practical and the excess. It represents evenness, oneness and the knowledge of self. Hunting is a cataclysm of inward progress. We hunt for spiritual reasons; we hunt to find inner peace; we hunt to understand the world. Hunting is our first great myth! The true hunter is both the alert and the meditative man. Thought and action combined in purpose; a hymn for the unity of world and self. Hunting is a search for all." I admire your open mind. keep it that way and open it a little more. | |||
|
| new member |
That are great words of a wise man. A man who maybe doesn't share my convictions, but a man who actually did do his thoughts about it. Yet... you see the irony in all? Of all animals, I love predators most (as many people do, I believe). I love them for their capabilities, their intelligence they have in plus to herbivorous species (at least of their own size), their beauty and power. Their job is to hunt. And just as I respect predatory lifeforms for their lifestyle, i respect man for his role "atop the food chain". What I don't respect, that's man's behavior in reference to the predators. Out of all species, they are the most endangered - and we have to keep as much gene-diversity as possible to keep them surviving - otherwise we'll have lost something that will never again return. I'm aware that "sports hunting" follows rules. And that it finances the care for wildlife in many regions... there are just certain excessive events that shouldn't happen, in my opinion. There it doesn't matter if I like it or not. Hunting can have good effects on populations, that has been proven several times by now... ...and... if a hunter can respect my convictions, as I try to do it with yours too, then there isn't even a problem. as I said, I want to profit of knowledge certain people have, cat-hunting wise. [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Kovu And yet you are anti predator in Man's case. Don't you find a contradiction there? | |||
|
| One of Us |
What is scientific about asking people on the internet about interactions with cats? A magazine article, sure, a collection of short stories, maybe- but it aint science. I do not see how anyones experiences will give you any information on cat behavior when you have already demonstrated that you interpret animal behavior from your "friends" in a very anthropomorphic way. Just an opinion! | |||
|
| one of us |
Kovu, Fuck off. (Academics are such entirely worthless creatures.) | |||
|
| new member |
Thank you, you're helping the reputation of sports hunting a lot. And, all the knowledge I probably have in respect, I'm no academic. I like to study nature, that's all. It's my hobby, a hobby just like you do hunt (I suppose). [censored for the sake of peace] "Evolution appears like the game 'Scrabble' to me. The result of it seems intelligent, while it actually was generated through random changes in a construct." | |||
|
| one of us |
There is significant man-eating by the lions of the Kruger Park in South Africa at present, due to the influx of illegal immigrants from Mozambique who walk across the Park at night. It appears this is repeat behavior and fairly widespread. I suggest you contact the SA Parks Board, they will have studies and statistics, plus photographic evidence I expect. Other than that, there is hardly any man-eating going on because there are almost no established prides of lions outside the national parks of most countries any longer. The cattle farmers have seen to that. And in the national parks, the humans are usually in vehicles or in fenced camps, not exactly easy prey. In other words, man and lion don't overlap very much. And leopards have never shown the same tendencies, at least not to my knowledge. Perhaps because they are more nocturnal and shy of man. For that reason, they HAVE survived, and done quite well, outside the parks. As to your inability to understand why men hunt, there is no explanation that you could relate to. It's like asking, why do women want to bear children? Most do, some don't. Why do cats chase mice? Why do dogs fetch? It's genetic. Either you get it or you don't. The meta-question is whether the people who don't approve or understand hunting should have any say over the rest of us. I say NO, as long as we are talking about regulated sport hunting and not commercial hunting (unlimited taking of game for money, including poaching). Commercial hunting is something that most all of us here don't approve of, precisely because man has no predators to speak of and has thus multiplied to the point where wildlife has retreated to a few corners of a few countries. A little more man-eating would be a very good thing! Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
one of us |
Kovu, here, I have to agree with you on your above sarcastic answer to the post above your's. However, I have delt with anti-hunting folks for some time now, and the post, you started with, was a thinly vailed, but well written, gate to an un-marked mine field, and it seems INTERBOAT stepped on one of your mines, with that statement. This is a strawman string, that is unwinable, in the long run. It is well known that a strawman post, is designed to trap anyone who answers it. This is because the answers are always taken out of context when re-posted on Animal rights, web-sites, as "WORDS FROM THE HUNTER'S OWN MOUTH", so-called proof of the hunter's maltreatment of wildlife. The fact is the tiger you hold so dear, was not desimated by sport hunting, but by the clearing out of the animals who were connsidered as dangerous to PEOPLE! I admit the medicine trade in China, India and places like that has, and does have a serious empact on Tiger popultions, but that has nothing to do with sport hunting. Today, with the very endangered populations of Tigers, they still kill over 300 people per year. With that fact in evidence, one can readily see why they were feared by the common folks in the jungle, when there were thousands of them roaming among the villiges, and cattle herds. Hence the wholesale killing of Tigers, by the MAHARAJAHs of India, at the request of the wood cutters who were preyed on by these cats. Like whiskey, and dope, hunters get blamed for a lot of things they are not responsible for. The wipeing out of all game is dirrectly in the pocket of governments, and poachers. The hunter is the salvation of all wildlife, not just game animals. As long as hunting is used as a form of land use, it places a value on those animals, and their habitat, and they will be protected by the local people, as a sustainable, and renewable resourse. If they have no value to the local people, then they will be removed, and replaced with something that is valuable. That means cows, sheep, and goats, and plows to destroy the habitat for all wildlife. The animals are in dirrect compitition with the local people, for space and resources, and conflicts will always be adjusted in favor of people over animals. KOVU I will not even address your questions, because I see you as disingenous, and I will not let you use my words to hurt sound wildlife management practices. I wish what you are asking for was real, but I believe it to be a hornets nest, and this will be my last reply!  MEMBERS , I believe this string should be allowed to die on the vine! It has nothing that is good for hunters, or wildlife's, and will spread lies to Animal rights people, while hendering the animal's continued long term existance,IMO !  Now, if some one wants to correct my spelling, rather than read my meaning, that is welcome, but a waste of time, IMO!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agrre that this KOVU guy needs to shove off. There is more than enough big cat research elsewhere. I am open minded and this website is very accepting, But I do not believe we should let this guy come in here and start slinging stuff that none of us would buy any way. So that being said I hope that the MODERATORS will make this guy take a long walk off a short cliff. In my eyes you are not welcome here KOVU. I encourage and support our members to not help this guy, unless it is to the door. Kovu  AR | |||
|
One of Us |
Well said | |||
|
One of Us |
Seemed like the man just wanted some help. He was honest. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It's way too easy for things to be taken out of context. There is plenty of info out there for him. seems kind of shady. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Introduction of someone who doesn't fit in here?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia