I will be hunting plains game in the Save next month, and I would like to ask those who have been there: At what distance should I zero my rifle? Why?

...This has been a subject of some debate between my father and I.

Thanks guys (and gals)!

James

James - Sighting in for dead on at 100 yards will be just fine. I shot plains game in the Save last year - an eland, 2 kudu, 2 warthogs, a zebra, a wildebeest, and an impala. All of my shots were inside 100 yards - all shot with a 9.3x74R single shot stalking rifle. There were a few open places where a 200 yard shot was possible, but not that many......and face it, you have time to think about the shot and determine hold over (if any) when the game is that far away. A lot of folks sight in for 2" or more high at 100 yards, and those same folks will miss their shot at a civet or a honey badger when encountered at 50 yards - they shoot right over their backs. Sight in at 100 yards, and you will not regret it.
I leave for the Save on 30 July, and I am counting the days till I leave!

Zeroed at 100 is fine for PG.

June is still green and I suspect that you will shoot most game inside of 100 yards.

Asking now? Really?



I would like to know what your PH recommended based on which part you are hunting and which caliber.

Was there last August and I agree, 100 yards is fine.

I took 2 shots at about 150yds in Sept. in the Save, everything else 100 or less.
Zero at 100 & you'll be fine.
Looking forward to your hunting report when you return home.
Sent an e-mail 5 minutes ago to book my return to Save next summer.
Who will you be hunting with?

Good Luck & Good Hunting

I shot my kudu at a lasered 236 yds in the Save with a '06 sighted 1.5" high at 100. Just aimed for the center and shot him. That wouldn't work sighted dead on at 100. If you're after medium/large plains game I can see no reason not to use your rifles trajectory to your advantage and not have to hold over on long shots if they come up.

That being said I did miss a duiker at 30yds one time....but he was nice and stood there while I compensated and shot him again!! For me just easier to allow for the short shots than the longer ones.

On the longer ones I seem to always have time to think about the shot & make adjustments.
On the short ones, it's usually very fast action.

I sighted in at 100 for both times that I was there.

My longest shot there was a little under 200 on a wildebeest. There are a few spots where you can get a 300 yard shot, but that really is not needed in the Save, as you should be able to get within 100.

If you know where your rifle hits, you can compensate on the long shots, but the close stuff can be a snap shot, so I would go dead on at 100.

Thanks for the responses. The PH (Terry Anders) said much the same as most reply's here...that most of the shooting will be under 100 yards. The argument against sighting in for 100 is that here in NA most guys are a couple inches high at 100 yards and are used to shooting that trajectory. Also, if the opportunity presents itself for a longer shot, then the NA set up would be handy (I am quite comfortable shooting my "Africa" rig out to 400 on larger game)

However, if the country is such that a shot over 150 just ain't gonna happen...then zero at 100 is the way to go.

p.s. the rifle is a 375H&H Brno shooting 270 gr tsx.

James

I just ran the trajectory for my load when zeroed at 100yrds. When shooting at anything under 150 yrds it is pretty hard to argue with. Based on the experience here I think I will fall in line and zero for 100yrds, and maybe tape a drop chart to the butt of the rifle...just in case.

Thanks again!

James

Remember to hold high at very short ranges. In fact, shoot one at 25 yards to be sure you know. (Unzipped a warthog with three shots, by aiming for the shoulder -- was hitting lower.)

2 cents

I was on the the Save last July and all of my shots on Kudu, Waterbuck, Wildbeets, Impala, Bushbuck, Bushpig and Warthog were under 100 yards.

James,

The 375 with the 270 TSX may just be the Africa cats ass. I've used that combine exclusivley on a couple of safaris for everything. You have 30-06 trajectory with big punch.

As for sight in Terry will have you check your zero when you arrive and I'll bet you that he will recommend dead on at 100 yards. It will be very unusual for you to have to take a shot over 150 yards and if the animal is farther away Terry will get you closer.

You will find this Africa hunting on the SAVE is not a game where the animals don't know your there, you can take your time, laser the distance and compensate. More than likely the actual shot will come quite quickly with no time to calculate distance. Being able to shoot quickly and accurately off sticks willbe far more important than your optimum zero.

You and your family are going to have a great safari with Terry.

Mark

quote:

I shot my kudu at a lasered 236 yds in the Save with a '06 sighted 1.5" high at 100. Just aimed for the center and shot him. That wouldn't work sighted dead on at 100.

With a 180gr. Partition at 2750 fps, the difference between a 100 yard zero and a 150 yard zero is 1.6" at 200 yards and 2.4" at 300 yards. I have serious doubts that you would have recognized any practical difference on a kudu at 236 yards.

quote:

In fact, shoot one at 25 yards to be sure you know.

!00% correct. We generalise at "zeroing in at 100 yards" and neglect the possibility of shorter shots. I absolutely agree that getting your sights set dead on at 100 yards is fine, do yourself a favour and shoot some shots at close range. You will be far more at ease with any shot you take once you know eactlyhow your rifle is shooting at various distances.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

I shot my kudu at a lasered 236 yds in the Save with a '06 sighted 1.5" high at 100. Just aimed for the center and shot him. That wouldn't work sighted dead on at 100.

With a 180gr. Partition at 2750 fps, the difference between a 100 yard zero and a 150 yard zero is 1.6" at 200 yards and 2.4" at 300 yards. I have serious doubts that you would have recognized any practical difference on a kudu at 236 yards.

I hear this a lot; that 2 or 3 inches at 300 or so yards is something you will never notice. Actually, it is a huge big deal IMO. Bullets at that range don't follow each other; if you can only shoot an 8 inch group of the sticks at 236 yards half your bullets are going to strike below the point at which you are aiming. Some will hit as low as 4 inches. Now take that group and shift it by 2.4 inches, and you have a significant risk of wounding an animal like a kudu or missing something like a steinbok.

The same logic applies to those who say zero at 300 yards; the bullet being 3 inches high at 180 yards is no big deal.

Oh yes it is. There is no good reason not to zero at 200 yards. Generally, that zero puts you dead on at close range for precision short shot like leopards, crocs, and hippos.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

I shot my kudu at a lasered 236 yds in the Save with a '06 sighted 1.5" high at 100. Just aimed for the center and shot him. That wouldn't work sighted dead on at 100.

With a 180gr. Partition at 2750 fps, the difference between a 100 yard zero and a 150 yard zero is 1.6" at 200 yards and 2.4" at 300 yards. I have serious doubts that you would have recognized any practical difference on a kudu at 236 yards.

I hear this a lot; that 2 or 3 inches at 300 or so yards is something you will never notice. Actually, it is a huge big deal IMO. Bullets at that range don't follow each other; if you can only shoot an 8 inch group of the sticks at 236 yards half your bullets are going to strike below the point at which you are aiming. Some will hit as low as 4 inches. Now take that group and shift it by 2.4 inches, and you have a significant risk of wounding an animal like a kudu or missing something like a steinbok.

The same logic applies to those who say zero at 300 yards; the bullet being 3 inches high at 180 yards is no big deal.

Oh yes it is. There is no good reason not to zero at 200 yards. Generally, that zero puts you dead on at close range for precision short shot like leopards, crocs, and hippos.

In my opinion a rifle should be zeroed for point blank settings for the round you are shooting no matter what country you are hunting big game in!

“POINT BLANK RANGE” is a setting that allows you to hold dead on and the trajectory of the bullet will still strike within vital zone at any range between the muzzle, and the point blank range.

Example: 375 H&H with a 300 gr bullet at 2550 fps

25 yds +1/4” 50yds +1 ½” 100 yds +3” 150 yds +1 ¾” 200 yds ~0~ 250 yds -4 ¼” 300 yds -12 1/2”

So with the rifle zeroed at 3 inches high at 100 yds you can hold dead on from muzzle to 250yds and still be in the kill zone, and only hold over at 300 yds.

Zeroing for point blank range let you use the same setting no matter the tight bush or open range, or country you will be hunting. Never lower than 4 inches or higher than 3 inches + or - up to 250 yds. This is the way my 375 H&H rifles are zeroed and it make no difference what I'm hunting with those rifles I know where they hit at muzzle to 350 yds. I see no real reason to change that simply because the is long grass or accross a canyon shot!

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

My point was not to disregard point of impact or zero, I shoot my rifles at every conceivable range so I know where my bullets will go in the field. We also don't need to split hairs, and there's no "magic zero". Let's face it, in practical terms, the change in 50 yards of zero is not going to make the "system" any more idiot-proof. At 236 yards, you need to know where your bullets will go regardless of zero.

Based on my experience in the Save, you will cause yourself fewer problems with a 100 yard zero than you will with a zero at a longer range for these reasons:

1) Most of your shooting (especially fast shooting) will likely be at fewer than 100 yards. If the odd 250 to 300 yard shot presents itself, you will probably have more time to think about your point of impact at that distance

2) In my experience (both personal, and anecdotal from talking to PHs) most shooters lose animals when they hit them too high on the body, not too low. "Humped" animals like the kudu are deceiving targets to folks used to shooting things like deer. You put a bullet much above the halfway point on a kudu and you're in for a lot of walking.

My longest shot in the Save happened to be at a kudu bull at about 150 yards. With a 7x57 and 100 yard zero, it didn't take a lot of mental gymnastics to make the shot.

Mac-

I don't disagree with your logic on MBPR but the important thing is not where you have it zeroed, but the fact that you know exactly where your bullets will go at a given range.

Again, my opinion based on my experience.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

I shot my kudu at a lasered 236 yds in the Save with a '06 sighted 1.5" high at 100. Just aimed for the center and shot him. That wouldn't work sighted dead on at 100.

With a 180gr. Partition at 2750 fps, the difference between a 100 yard zero and a 150 yard zero is 1.6" at 200 yards and 2.4" at 300 yards. I have serious doubts that you would have recognized any practical difference on a kudu at 236 yards.

I hear this a lot; that 2 or 3 inches at 300 or so yards is something you will never notice. Actually, it is a huge big deal IMO. Bullets at that range don't follow each other; if you can only shoot an 8 inch group of the sticks at 236 yards half your bullets are going to strike below the point at which you are aiming. Some will hit as low as 4 inches. Now take that group and shift it by 2.4 inches, and you have a significant risk of wounding an animal like a kudu or missing something like a steinbok.

The same logic applies to those who say zero at 300 yards; the bullet being 3 inches high at 180 yards is no big deal.

Oh yes it is. There is no good reason not to zero at 200 yards. Generally, that zero puts you dead on at close range for precision short shot like leopards, crocs, and hippos.

In my opinion a rifle should be zeroed for point blank settings for the round you are shooting no matter what country you are hunting big game in!

“POINT BLANK RANGE” is a setting that allows you to hold dead on and the trajectory of the bullet will still strike within vital zone at any range between the muzzle, and the point blank range.

Example: 375 H&H with a 300 gr bullet at 2550 fps

25 yds +1/4” 50yds +1 ½” 100 yds +3” 150 yds +1 ¾” 200 yds ~0~ 250 yds -4 ¼” 300 yds -12 1/2”

So with the rifle zeroed at 3 inches high at 100 yds you can hold dead on from muzzle to 250yds and still be in the kill zone, and only hold over at 300 yds.

Zeroing for point blank range let you use the same setting no matter the tight bush or open range, or country you will be hunting. Never lower than 4 inches or higher than 3 inches + or - up to 250 yds. This is the way my 375 H&H rifles are zeroed and it make no difference what I'm hunting with those rifles I know where they hit at muzzle to 350 yds. I see no real reason to change that simply because the is long grass or accross a canyon shot!

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Mac:

At 250 yards you are 4.5 inches low, which means half your bullets are going to hit below that. How low? Depends on you and your rifle, but if you can only hold 2 moa in the field, your group is 5 inches. That means some of those bullets are going to be seven inches low at 250. I would be correcting for that.

But, here is another reason I like the 200 yard zero: if you use Leupold scopes, dial them up to max power and the bottom post is generally the correct zero at 300 yards. works for most scopes except those below 2.5X bottom mag or above 14X top mag.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


In my opinion a rifle should be zeroed for point blank settings for the round you are shooting no matter what country you are hunting big game in!

“POINT BLANK RANGE” is a setting that allows you to hold dead on and the trajectory of the bullet will still strike within vital zone at any range between the muzzle, and the point blank range.

Example: 375 H&H with a 300 gr bullet at 2550 fps

25 yds +1/4” 50yds +1 ½” 100 yds +3” 150 yds +1 ¾” 200 yds ~0~ 250 yds -4 ¼” 300 yds -12 1/2”

So with the rifle zeroed at 3 inches high at 100 yds you can hold dead on from muzzle to 250yds and still be in the kill zone, and only hold over at 300 yds.

Zeroing for point blank range let you use the same setting no matter the tight bush or open range, or country you will be hunting. Never lower than 4 inches or higher than 3 inches + or - up to 250 yds. This is the way my 375 H&H rifles are zeroed and it make no difference what I'm hunting with those rifles I know where they hit at muzzle to 350 yds. I see no real reason to change that simply because the is long grass or accross a canyon shot!

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Mac:

At 250 yards you are 4.5 inches low, which means half your bullets are going to hit below that. How low? Depends on you and your rifle, but if you can only hold 2 moa in the field, your group is 5 inches. That means some of those bullets are going to be seven inches low at 250. I would be correcting for that.

But, here is another reason I like the 200 yard zero: if you use Leupold scopes, dial them up to max power and the bottom post is generally the correct zero at 300 yards. works for most scopes except those below 2.5X bottom mag or above 14X top mag.

AZ writer if you look at my post above what I posted with the point blank zero it IS a 200 yd zero! The fact is if you use the same zero all the time you know ehere your rifle hits at about any range. I had a PH request of me to re-zero my 375H&H dead on at 100 yds, and I refused, simply becasue as I told him I shoot this rifle at muzzle to 300 yds and I know where it hits at any range in between the muzzle and that 300 yds. If I had done as he asked I would have been in the dark at several ranges. I took six animals with not one miss!

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Ok Mac; my point is you really do need to hold high at 300 yards, though.

But I agree with you on the 100 yard zero. The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see.

"The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see." The Save is full of just such cover.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
"The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see." The Save is full of just such cover.

I agree, and maybe because I have never hunted there I am being a bit stubborn, but I have hunted in other thick places.

But let's just say you are riding in the truck down the road, sitting on the top seat, sipping a cold frosty one, when suddenly a four year old lion steps out on the road in front of you 300 yards away. You throw the rifle on the top bar and get ready to squeeze. But wait...you only have a 100 yard zero.

Both my 375/404 rifles that we use on our hunts in Africa are sighted in to be dead on at 180 yards.

This translates to about 1.5 inch high at 100 yards.

I have shot animals from 20 yards to 500 yards.

The only time I have to make any sight correction is for the longer shots.

Mac,

I agree with sighting to MPBR. That is the method I use on ALL my scoped rifes. However, one thing to think about is that the size of the Bullseye for determining MPBR, if using the strict definition of the term, would change depending on the size of the animal's kill zone. For instance, MPBR for an Elk with a 12" kill zone would be different than for a WhiteTail with a 6" kill zone. But as you mentioned, for practical reasons, many use an artificial 6" bullseye to get a restriction of never higher or lower than 3".

IMO, MPBR IS the magic zero number as it allows the largest range variation to "hold dead on". Obviously beyond that range, hold over becomes necessary. But for practical hunting under field conditions, with flat shooting rifles such as 300 mag or even standard calibers like the 30/06, you're usually good to go with just holding dead on. By that statement, I mean whenever you are within a range that you immediately perceive to be reasonable without having to "range" the distance.

Any longer range that makes you consider the necessity to hold over should make you stop, think, and put a little more thought into the shot anyway! If the animal runs while you're computing hold over, well ... that's hunting and at least you avoided wounding an animal by rushing a shot that was beyond your "normal" range.

A while back, there was a thread on how far is too far. Well, for me, I don't think twice as long as the shot is within the MPBR of the rifle I have in my hands at the time. Beyond that range and I start weighing the options depending on conditions such as wind, steadiness of rest, size of animal, etc. And my "too far" range will be different from day to day depending on these variables.

Just my 2 cents!

quote:

For me just easier to allow for the short shots than the longer ones.

That's because there is less variation in trajectory.

Yeah, like most everyone else has said, right-on or a couple inches high at 100 is close enough.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
.... or missing something like a steinbok.....

Can anyone "see" a steinbok at 236 yds? I must get my eyes checked

This was my sighting in for my first safari and my 375. Worked from a buffalo at 25 yards to a kudu at 350. 300gr Swift AFrames.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
.... or missing something like a steinbok.....

Can anyone "see" a steinbok at 236 yds? I must get my eyes checked

Okay, make it a Tommy at 256 yards, with some of his chest covered with grass.

quote:

Okay, make it a Tommy at 256 yards, with some of his chest covered with grass.

And usually accompanied by a healthy cross-wind which is very common in those Masailand plains

quote:

By A AZ w
But I agree with you on the 100 yard zero. The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
"The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see." The Save is full of just such cover.

If you know your rifle I see no reason you would be more or less likely to hit an unseen twig than with a 100 yds zero than with a PB zero.

If the twig is UNSEEN you may hit it no matter what your zero is!

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Okay, make it a Tommy at 256 yards, with some of his chest covered with grass.

And usually accompanied by a healthy cross-wind which is very common in those Masailand plains

No problem; I held for the wind, which was easy to read given the mirage. But I clicked up from my 200 yard zero just to be perfect. That vital area isn't much bigger than a sandwich.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

By A AZ w
But I agree with you on the 100 yard zero. The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
"The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see." The Save is full of just such cover.

If you know your rifle I see no reason you would be more or less likely to hit an unseen twig than with a 100 yds zero than with a PB zero.

If the twig is UNSEEN you may hit it no matter what your zero is!

Mac

I had to shoot through the thick stuff twice on that hunt: once on a buffalo and once on a warthog. In both cases, I had to find a window through the brush to shoot through, due to the ranges in question (short), the shots were made easier because of the closer zero.

You're obviously right, no zero will help you miss an "unseen" twig without sheer luck.

This thread has far too many words and not enough pictures, here's the buff:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

By A AZ w
But I agree with you on the 100 yard zero. The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
"The only advantage it has is that in thick cover you are less likely to hit a branch you don't see." The Save is full of just such cover.

If you know your rifle I see no reason you would be more or less likely to hit an unseen twig than with a 100 yds zero than with a PB zero.

If the twig is UNSEEN you may hit it no matter what your zero is!

Mac

I had to shoot through the thick stuff twice on that hunt: once on a buffalo and once on a warthog. In both cases, I had to find a window through the brush to shoot through, due to the ranges in question (short), the shots were made easier because of the closer zero.

You're obviously right, no zero will help you miss an "unseen" twig without sheer luck.

Well said Woods. I guess what I should have said was, "Assuming your scope is 1.5 inches high, a 100 yard zero means you bullet is never higher than the crosshairs, which means you won't have to worry about not seeing a branch above your line of sight."

Actually, a zero of 160 for my .416 results in the bullet never going higher than the line of sight. Perhaps that is why Saeed picks a 180 yard zero.

James, no excuses.


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

Mac

I had to shoot through the thick stuff twice on that hunt: once on a buffalo and once on a warthog. In both cases, I had to find a window through the brush to shoot through, due to the ranges in question (short), the shots were made easier because of the closer zero.

You're obviously right, no zero will help you miss an "unseen" twig without sheer luck.

This thread has far too many words and not enough pictures, here's the buff:

No martter how you had your scope zeroed, you did a fine job on that old boy! Congratulations

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:But let's just say you are riding in the truck down the road, sitting on the top seat, sipping a cold frosty one, when suddenly a four year old lion steps out on the road in front of you 300 yards away. You throw the rifle on the top bar and get ready to squeeze. But wait...you only have a 100 yard zero.

Now THAT's funny!!

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
James - Sighting in for dead on at 100 yards will be just fine. I shot plains game in the Save last year - an eland, 2 kudu, 2 warthogs, a zebra, a wildebeest, and an impala. All of my shots were inside 100 yards - all shot with a 9.3x74R single shot stalking rifle. There were a few open places where a 200 yard shot was possible, but not that many......and face it, you have time to think about the shot and determine hold over (if any) when the game is that far away. A lot of folks sight in for 2" or more high at 100 yards, and those same folks will miss their shot at a civet or a honey badger when encountered at 50 yards - they shoot right over their backs. Sight in at 100 yards, and you will not regret it.
I leave for the Save on 30 July, and I am counting the days till I leave!

Go 200 yds and give the honey badgers a miss.