Hi folks,

I was a member of this forum awhile back but was never very active. At any rate, a couple of years ago I decided to go back school and am now doing research for a paper on Environmental Ethics.

Part of the paper will focus on ranch hunting in Africa, which got tremendous boost when the ownership of wildlife was transferred from the state to the land-owner. It happened at different times in different countries.

I would like to determine the year that the transfer of ownership took place in the following countries: Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia and South Africa.

Also, I will probably focus on two or more or the following species: Hartmann’s Mountain Zebra, Black-Faced Impala, Black & White Rhino and maybe even elephant or lion. Current and historical population data on those species would be helpful – particularly the numbers on private ranches. At Reno in January, someone from PHASA told me that probably 75% of the White Rhino in South Africa were on private ranches and I suspect that the same is true for Hartmann’s Mountain Zebra and Black-Faced Impala in Namibia.

Other data that anyone might have knowledge of, including: research reports, academic papers or official state documents – even personal experience, might also be helpful.

Note: I am already familiar with the IUCN and CITES databases.

I will check back occasionally or can be reached at: Gluck@FAS.Harvard.edu

Thanks in advance,
Steve

PS: In the event that anyone might think this is some kind of scam, that’s me below at Clive’s place in Botswana and with Jannie (and my son) at Gras in Namibia.

PPS: The paper is tentatively entitled “The Environmental Ethics of Trophy Hunting as a Methodology in the Preservation of Endangered Species”.

SteveGI,

A very interesting project indeed. I wish you all the best with it.

I'm not so sure if the term or concept of "....the ownership of wildlife was transferred...." is entirely correct in South Africa.

My understanding is that there was never a transfer, only a more literal interpretation of a legal principle. In South Africa game is [today] regarded as belonging to no-one in particular. Not even the State is [or ever was?] regarded as the "owner" of game. With the older conservation laws the State took, what I will loosely call 'curator ship' of the game. By older I mean essentially post 1910 when we were the Union of South Africa. IIRC nothing changed when we became the Republic of South Africa in 1961. Game was always regarded as a natural resource belonging to 'the people of South Africa', but not to 'the Government of the Union (or Republic) of South Africa’. They, via provincial or second tier government, protected the game and passed regulations to control the hunting thereof. However the game never 'belonged' to the state! They 'looked after the game on behalf of the people of the country'. It is quite true that, for the man in the street this looked like the Government protected 'their' game. Not so! The game still belonged to no one in particular.

Here in South Africa the situation changed after one of the great pioneers of game conservation, the late Mr. Norman Atherstone, erected, what I understand to be the first, game proof fence around his farm Silent Valley near Dwaalboom in the, then, Transvaal Province. Today this farm forms a substantial part of what is today the Silent Valley Nature Reserve.

My understanding, gained from my legally trained friends, is that the res nullius cedit occupanti quod nullius principle applies where a farm owner fenced his farm in such a manner that he 'took total control' over the movement of game through the fence. They tell me this basically means that the game still belongs to no-one in particular, but a land owner can "make the game like it is his" by taking adequate control there over. A suitable game fence through which game cannot readily escape is regarded as taking adequate control over the game. So, if a herd owner does not adequately manage his herd by proper fence maintenance he may very well loose some animals to his neighbor, as if they cross over the fence onto a neighbor’s property they essentially ‘belong’ to the neighboring property owner! But the reverse is also true: If animals cannot readily escape through a fence, the animals from a neighboring property can also not readily get into the property! For this reason the former Transvaal Provincial authorities promulgated regulation about the so called P3 Exemption Permit. I believe that if you get the date of the promulgation of the regulations making the issuing of a P3 exemption permit, then that can be regarded as the effective date from which the game 'belonged' to the land owner. My understanding is also that the former Transvaal Provincial authorities were the 'leaders' in this, but I may be wrong?

Other Provinces followed suit, and the Free State province issue, with similar or exactly the same legal consequences (?) a Certificate of Adequate Fencing.

But enough of this for public display of my possible misunderstanding of the situation. I'm but a Hunting Outfitter that only needs to know a little bit about the law to ensure his clients do not hunt illegally. I'm sure many know better and will chip in and offer their wisdom. There are quite a few HO's on this board that have actually studied law, and some even qualified and practised Law . Let's here from you legally trained guys please.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Hey Steve,

Good to see you here. I had no idea that you were a AR member.

Back to school huh?

Feel free to call me and talk about this. I can share some experience with private land and communal land information in both Botswana and Namibia. There is also a thriving private land hunting industry in Zambia and Zimbabwe.

In 1975 the Rhodesian Government changed the status of wildlife from belongin to the state to 'res nuillius'. Effectively this means that if it is on your farm you may utilise it but if it walks off your farm...it now belongs to someone else. You are not permitted to 'high fence' the property unless you are stocking it with game purchased from outside with government permission. (ie game sold with permission is now considered livestock and provided it is branded can be considered as 'belonging' to someone).

The exception was 'royal game' or ' specially protected Species' after 1980. This caused some grief...cheetah wre causing serious stock losses and the farmers sued the government for compensation- and won, as the state still 'owned' all the cheetah. In reponce the government lobbied sucessfully for a CITES quota for cheetah and in the 1997 review of the 1975 Parks & Wildlife Act Chapter 20:14 confers 'res nullius' status on all game but with a hunting ban on 'specially protected species'.

Hi Wendell,

Yup. I was mostly just lurking and learning – there’s a lot of good information here.

School is actually a lot of fun – and I’m the only Harvard Environmental Club member who’s also a member of the IPHA (Associate). It scares the crap out of some of them.

I will definitely be in touch. I’d like to include an analysis of Scimitar Horned Oryx. When I last checked, the AZAA’s Species Survival Plan was based on about 1,500 Oryx in zoos worldwide, totally ignoring the fact that there are probably twice that number on Texas hunting ranches. Unbelievable. Maybe you can hook me up with some contacts down there.

Later,
Steve


Andrew – Great stuff and much appreciated. I’ll get back to you. I’m still looking into it.
S.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
SteveGI,

... I'm but a Hunting Outfitter that only needs to know a little bit about the law ...

Andrew McLaren

It seems that you know quite a bit about the law, Andrew. Your analysis was of great help and entirely accurate. Ganyana also. Thanks to both.

After getting sidetracked for awhile I found the Namibian info "Namibia in 1967 was the first southern African nation to give people effective ownership of wildlife on their land (Joubert, Brand, and Visagie 1983) ... the Namibian example helped to inspire the similar law enacted in Zimbabwe in 1975. (G. Child 1995)." http://cei.org/pdf/1938.pdf
Private Property Rights to Wildlife: Muir-Leresche & Nelson

All I need to know now is when similar laws were enacted in Bots & Tanzania. Anyone?

Steve,
Somewhere on these pages, was quite a long exchange about the Simitar Horned Oryx a few months ago.

In 2006 my PH in Namibia was talking to us about "repatriation" of the land and how everything (game, cattle, sheep, goats etc) on the land declined when it was taken away.

Found it!
http://forums.accuratereloadin...991068211#2991068211

Just posted on it, asking for an update.

If you can get hold of African Sporting Gazette for this month, it is the Namibian issue and has a good article on the sport hunting industry there. If you haven't already, I would suggest contacting Brooke Chilvers Lubin who is the editor. Good luck on your project.

quote:

Originally posted by RVL III:
Found it!
http://forums.accuratereloadin...991068211#2991068211

Just posted on it, asking for an update.

Thanks again Robert. Great thread.

Blacktailer, I haven't seen my ASG yet. My subscription may have run out.

Funny that you mention Brooke. I met Brooke and Rudy in Botswana in 2007. They were visiting Tholo and Clive and Linda brought them over to the camp for dinner. I was the only hunter in camp. It was possibly the most memorable dinner I’ve ever had. Rudy told stories of elephant hunting in the CAR, hacking through the jungle for a month just to set up his hunting camp, and so on. Clive talked about how he created his 240,000 acre preserve, stocking it with game etc. Clive’s father Dick recounted his years surveying the western Kalahari, sleeping next to a fire for five years, his experiences with the bushmen, lions etc. I was in absolute awe of my company. Brooke took a group photo of us, which I keep asking her for, but I fear it’s lost deep in her files somewhere. No matter. The memory is enough.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:

All I need to know now is when similar laws were enacted in Bots & Tanzania. Anyone?

Steve,
In Tanzania, all wildlife belongs to the Government still today.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:

All I need to know now is when similar laws were enacted in Bots & Tanzania. Anyone?

Steve,
In Tanzania, all wildlife belongs to the Government still today.

Thanks Bwanamich. I'm least familiar with Tanzania, but my impression is that there are few (if any) game ranches there.

I have a few maps showing wildlife areas divided into 10 national parks, 4 preserves including the Selous, and several game-controlled areas.

I assume that all hunting is done in blocks located in either the preserves or GCAs - and that there is no hunting at all in the national parks. Is that correct?

And there is no ranch-hunting at all - correct also?

So I guess every kill is by permit only with a fee paid to the government.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.

Steve

Steve

TZ has a variety of classifications for different areas. GMA (Game Management Area) GCA (Game Control Area) GR (Game Reserves) etc. All have slightly different requirements...... The most important difference (to me at least) is that the GRs don't allow any permanent human habitation.

This might help with the GRs: http://www.shakariconnection.c...-selous-reserve.html

Anyone know where Ruark's "they look at you like you owe them money" originally appeared; which book? I'd like to use it but can't if I don't have a proper citation.

If someone can give me the page number, I'll send you a box of .416 Weatherby rounds. What a deal! (first response only of course - after verification)

In the 1967 edition of "Use Enough Gun" the quote is on page 96.

My old buddy Peter Lang in Wales shoots a 416 wea but UK law only allows him solids!

I'm sure he'll be very grateful for them though!

The UK, right. I knew that would happen. Now I've done it. How about if I bring them to Reno, and give them to you (or him) there?

Steve,

Neither of us will be there but don't have worry about the bullets!

It also seems do depend on book and edition because in the 1954 edition of Horn of the Hunter, it's on page 240.

Whew! I once had box of ammunition sitting in a shipping company's office for a couple of months because they were afraid to ship it for some reason - and that just within the US. Shipping overseas is probably a nightmare. I appreciate being let off the hook, but still feel obligated. I did, after all, open my big mouth. So I'll send you something - "something of value".

Steve

PS: That's a probably a better (earlier) source - Thanks.

Steve,

Very kind of you but please don't bother as it'll probably get 'lost' in the post before it gets here....... but if we ever get to share a campfire or meet up in a bar, the first one's on you!

As Steve has stated, that line is found in at least two of Ruark's books - Use Enough Gun and Horn of the Hunter. It may be in others or in some of his articles but sice I don't have everyhting he wrote I can't research that.

For my copies of the two books listed the citations are:

Ruark, Robert, 1966. Use Enough Gun. New York: (The New American Library of World Literature, Inc.), 64

Ruark, Robert, 1996. Horn of the Hunter. Long Beach: (Safari Press Inc.) 285

Horn of the Hunter was first published in 1953. Use Enough Gun was published in 1966 after his death and is composed of text collected from his earlier works. So, it is reasonable to assume that this line was first published in Horn of the Hunter.

Hi folks,

I submitted the final version of my paper. Thanks for all your help. I'd be happy to send a copy to anyone who made a contribution if you're interested.

Andrew, I wrote a second paper on economics which focused on the changes in land use in southern Africa and the tremendously positive impact of those changes.

Steve, I quoted you on canned Lion hunting (from your website) in the ethics paper. Good stuff.

Looking forward to Reno.

Best,
Steve Gluck

Steve,

I'm very glad to be of help and would of course be interested to read the paper if you don't mind sending it. My personal email addy is shakari3@mweb.co.za