Anybody know why this auction has been postponed? Was scheduled for the 9th March.

From the dept of national Perks and Wildlife mismangement

Dear Valued Clients



Please be advised that as earlier we intend to hold the Zambezi Valley Auction on the 9th of March 2012, but the date may be changed due to some challenges that we are currently facing. We are kindly advising you not to make any concrete travelling arrangements yet. Be assured that as soon as the challenges are resolved we will send you the final date and venue for the Auction. Our apologies for any inconveniences caused.



I have attached copies of the 2012 hunting and fishing bags and the prices that obtained during the 2010 and 2011 Auction for your perusal. However please note that some of the hunting bags have changed due to the reduction in the hunting quota for both Nyakasanga and Sapi Safari Area for the 2012 hunting season.



Please bear with us as we regard you highly and sincerely regret any inconvenience caused.

Could the auction be off?? I have just received an offer with an fixed price for an elephant with an known outfitter in Nyakasanga. How can he do that if the action has not yet been held?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ganyana:
However please note that some of the hunting bags have changed due to the reduction in the hunting quota for both Nyakasanga and Sapi Safari Area for the 2012 hunting season. QUOTE]

Interesting to know the full story here? Is this because they are still giving alot of additional quota to others, or what? Or, is it just a story?

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Could the auction be off?? I have just received an offer with an fixed price for an elephant with an known outfitter in Nyakasanga. How can he do that if the action has not yet been held?

Carl,
There "should" not be any known outfitters in Nyakasanga as the quota there is supposed to be auctioned to the highest bidder. With the customary rules...the bidder had to buy a buffalo hunt and buy additional quota like elephant on top of the buffalo. It was OK for multiple hunters to split up the bought quota if they liked. And there are some outfitters that regularly did win the auctions but they still had to go to the auction.

Why don't you tell us who the outfitter is and then you can get answers to your question better.

There were some issues last year. I have been told the 2011 auction was stopped in the middle. There was some confrontations. Some of the "add on" animals were never sold. For example, elephants.

I was approached about bidding this year. I declined. The more I learned about it, the less interested I was.

My understanding, which may not be correct, is that no one has quota in Nyakasanga or Sapi at this time. However, the auction will sell the animals to the highest bidder. There are some reputable people that operate in these areas solely off of the auction hunts. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. The problem is that now, no one has obtained anything nor do they know what the cost will be.

The bad news is that I hear certain South Africans are wreaking havoc on these areas, legally or otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
There were some issues last year. I have been told the 2011 auction was stopped in the middle. There was some confrontations. Some of the "add on" animals were never sold. For example, elephants.

I was approached about bidding this year. I declined. The more I learned about it, the less interested I was.

My understanding, which may not be correct, is that no one has quota in Nyakasanga or Sapi at this time. However, the auction will sell the animals to the highest bidder. There are some reputable people that operate in these areas solely off of the auction hunts. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. The problem is that now, no one has obtained anything nor do they know what the cost will be.

The bad news is that I hear certain South Africans are wreaking havoc on these areas, legally or otherwise.

Larry - The issue is not, nor ever has been, the auction process that allowed for hunts to be purchased/conducted in Nyakasanga/Sapi.

In the past couple of years, it has been the gross over issuance of un-sustainable/additional quota. All in the name of profit for the likes of un-scrupulous officials/outfitters/ph's, etc, that is truly the problem. Basically, those who are willing to turn a blind-eye to the huge over-hunting of lion, buffalo, elephant, etc, have been able to profit, while the wildlife takes a beating.

In 2011, as in the past - 1 lion was sold at auction in Nyakasanga. Yet, an additional 7 male lions were shot, "legally" of course! A gross in-justice for the game, that is totally un-sustainable, long-term. Same for the other species as well.

Thus, the last line of my post.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Thus, the last line of my post.

Yep! But also keep in mind, its NOT just SA guys who have been contributing. Its been several Zim guys too, and that's the real shame of it - IMO.

I have nothing against the auctions, etc. I just want to see, what basically amounts to a wildlife slaughter, come to an end. Go back to only issuing/selling the auction hunts, and all is fine, but until then..........

Agreed

quote:

There are some reputable people that operate in these areas solely off of the auction hunts. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. The problem is that now, no one has obtained anything nor do they know what the cost will be.

Yep...folks like Doug Kok. 100% fine agreed.

But last year at least there was more to the story.

quote:

The bad news is that I hear certain South Africans are wreaking havoc on these areas, legally or otherwise.

Along some shall we say Non-South Africans.

quote:

Yep! But also keep in mind, its NOT just SA guys who have been contributing. Its been several Zim guys too, and that's the real shame of it - IMO.

Should have read further...Aaron is 100% correct.

For these reasons...I would like to hear who the outfitter is that contacted Carl...he may be one of the under the table buyers of quota.

Roger Whittall
In the letter I got the period was march - june (that is 2 months before the first auction hunts starts)
Further it says Nyakasanga is his new concession.

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Roger Whittall
In the letter I got the period was march - june (that is 2 months before the first auction hunts starts)
Further it says Nyakasanga is his new concession.

Was it "Roger" Whittall Safaris or "Guy" Whittall Safaris??? Please double check.

Carl:

Was this letter from Roger or an agent?

I am extremely surprised. By all accounts I have heard, Roger is a good operator. He still has Humani which is a prime area in the Save. Why would he want to do auction hunts? I am very puzzled by that.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Carl:

Was this letter from Roger or an agent?

I am extremely surprised. By all accounts I have heard, Roger is a good operator. He still has Humani which is a prime area in the Save. Why would he want to do auction hunts? I am very puzzled by that.

From a very respectable agent.

Maybe Roger has bought the rights to the concession. I got an mail from Parks the other day staking that there was some issue with the auction and it might be postponed. This could be the reason?

It is Africa. Anything can happen. Who knows?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Roger Whittall
In the letter I got the period was march - june (that is 2 months before the first auction hunts starts)
Further it says Nyakasanga is his new concession.

Was it "Roger" Whittall Safaris or "Guy" Whittall Safaris??? Please double check.

ROGER

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Carl:

Was this letter from Roger or an agent?

I am extremely surprised. By all accounts I have heard, Roger is a good operator. He still has Humani which is a prime area in the Save. Why would he want to do auction hunts? I am very puzzled by that.

From a very respectable agent.

Maybe Roger has bought the rights to the concession. I got an mail from Parks the other day staking that there was some issue with the auction and it might be postponed. This could be the reason?

Anything is possible and if that were the case...it might be a good thing...but...Guy Whittall was selling hunts from Nyakasanga last year and more than the one auctioned lion...to the best of my knowledge.

It is NOT unusual for guys like Roger to buy "the real Auction" hunts. Mokore (Duckworths) has in the past as well.

Who is the Agent?

I've known Guy for awhile now. I emailed him today, and asked for some info.

Carl,
Would it be possible to tell us who the booking agent was that sent you the info on Nyakasanga?

Honestly, I think it is Guy. Guy is hunting there from what I am told.

Guys

I know that Roger has bought hunts at the auction for many many years and he markets them as such BEFORE the auction.

How he settles/ agrees on the financial side with his clients that buy those hunts I have no idea BUT I have never heard of a client that was not happy with these hunts.

By marketing these hunts BEFORE the auction he obviously had the confidence that he could make it work regardless of the price of the hunt and the fact that all his clients have been happy is proof that it has worked. There is nothing wrong/ illegal with advertising /selling of the auction hunts BEFORE the actual auction so long as you honor the price it is sold for to your client.

Most PH buying for a client end up passing the bill on to the client and then charge an operating fee which covers their expense of outfitting /ph and their profit- This is done so as not to end up making a loss if the hunts go for more then expected.

Guy like his father does also buy at the auctions. He also did buy quota from 1 of the two extra operators that were given quota in Nyakasanga.

There are questions in the past here about how and why these guys were given quota which only Parks can answer and with out going into that I think that it is important to realize that Guy did nothing wrong by buying quota off these fellows. It was a LEGAL quota issued by Parks. Was it morally correct , was it in the best interests of the game there- maybe not BUT NOT ILLEGAL. Just my thoughts on that.

May be by offering ele hunts before the auction dates means that Roger/ GUY had bought quota from the fellows operating in Nyakasanga. Nothing illegal with that and as far as I am concerned at least it will mean that we have qualified ZIm PHs hunting the area rather then some SA guy with no morals, license or ethics which seems common in our auction areas. Just my 2 cents worth!

Hi Guys, I am heading back home to Zim today been in the states for the last 6 weeks, I will get an update for everyone regarding the auction and post the details back.

Cheers to all!

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
There are questions in the past here about how and why these guys were given quota which only Parks can answer and with out going into that I think that it is important to realize that Guy did nothing wrong by buying quota off these fellows. It was a LEGAL quota issued by Parks. Was it morally correct , was it in the best interests of the game there- maybe not BUT NOT ILLEGAL. Just my thoughts on that.

Buzz - To some of us, that's where the issue lies. Correct, its NOT illegal - but certainly NOT in the best interest of the game. As I've stated many times, when Nyakasanga has been allotted 1 lion per year - via the auction, for many years now. Yet, 7 additional lions were shot just in 2011 alone. I personally find it impossible to support those who are willing to participate in such activities, regardless of the legality.

The same is happening with the excessive elephant quotas, buffalo quotas, etc. Zimbos should be the first to help protect their own wildlife, not take advantage of the situation, simply because its "legal". JMO, but I obviously respect yours too, as certainly you make some valid points.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Zimbos should be the first to help protect their own wildlife, not take advantage of the situation, simply because its "legal".

Aaron and Lane

Point taken. Cheers Buzz