I put this in the Australian section but thought I would but it here also. I have a hunt this August in Australia. The outfitter has a rifle here in the states that he wants me to bring with me. He is going to do the paper work there but I wonder about trouble with me bringing the rifle in but not bring it out. I have talked with Travel With Guns and they think there could be problems as this would be consider a export. Anybody had any experience with this?

It is considered an export.

Did he bring it here and leave it or did he buy it here?

Did you buy it for him?

Sounds like he is having you act as a common carrier or courier.

Likely doable, but lots of hoops through which to jump.

This may or may not apply in your situation.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...gun%2C-pistol%2C-etc.

Nor me personally, but an Australian friend routinely buys rifles when in the USA and either takes them back with him or ships them.
Her is up here every year or so and must know the system pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
It is considered an export.

Did he bring it here and leave it or did he buy it here?

Did you buy it for him?

Sounds like he is having you act as a common carrier or courier.

Likely doable, but lots of hoops through which to jump.

This may or may not apply in your situation.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answe...gun%2C-pistol%2C-etc.

He had it repaired up here and you are right, I'm just a courier.

quote:

He had it repaired up here and you are right, I'm just a courier.

quote:

He had it repaired up here and you are right, I'm just a courier.

If it had been repaired in the States, a "paper trail" would have been created, i.e. Export permit from Australia, an Import (Temporary?) one for the States and on the basis of those, + maybe some invoices related to the work done, I would immagine a "Re-Export" would be the obvious permit to acquire.

But then again "obvious = logic" doesn't always apply when it comes to dealing with Govt. Departments.

quote:

Originally posted by Bama15:
I put this in the Australian section but thought I would but it here also. I have a hunt this August in Australia. The outfitter has a rifle here in the states that he wants me to bring with me. He is going to do the paper work there but I wonder about trouble with me bringing the rifle in but not bring it out. I have talked with Travel With Guns and they think there could be problems as this would be consider a export. Anybody had any experience with this?

I have. If you only bring one firearm with you there isnt any mechanism I know that would cause you to be questioned about it on the way out. Having said that - that situation can change. Customs here says that it is forbidden to do this but cannot cite any laws to say why it is forbidden. So long as you do the right thing with the gun in getting it attached to a licence here immediately - the state doesnt seem to have an issue. The firearm on entry is temporarily registered to the outfitter - the mechanisms are there to make the firearm permanently 'legal' on the Australian end (that is state jurisdiction). It is really just Customs (Federal jurisdiction) saying - but, but, you cant do that. Customs say that they track all firearm movements in and out across the border.... experience is that that does not happen.

If you bring multiple firearms and you leave with one less - well yes, you are kind of leaving yourself open to Customs asking you where the other firearm is - you have to 'check' them out of the country with that department.

quote:

Originally posted by Bama15:


He had it repaired up here and you are right, I'm just a courier.

Oh - Is it still registered in Australia?

quote:

Oh - Is it still registered in Australia?

Is Australia so screwed up with its laws that it allows a firearm to be exported without keeping a track of it?

If an Australian resident needs to have a rifle worked on abroad can it not be exported (albeit temporarily) and then re-imported?

Quite simple really but then again when it comes to Govt. Departments ignorance prevails.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Oh - Is it still registered in Australia?

Is Australia so screwed up with its laws that it allows a firearm to be exported without keeping a track of it?

If an Australian resident needs to have a rifle worked on abroad can it not be exported (albeit temporarily) and then re-imported?

Quite simple really but then again when it comes to Govt. Departments ignorance prevails.

The laws are a bit screwed-up in that the firearms regulation is done by provinces - eight different provinces - with slightly different laws and the provinces dont communicate with each other or the Federal regulators very well. So yes it is possible that a firearm could leave the country, with export paperwork - and yet the provincial regulator doesnt know about it. Just recently they changed the law so that we didnt need to tell the regulator that we were bringing a registered firearm back in either!! So long as it is still registered (ie. attached to an Australian firearm licence).

Yes an Australian licence holder can have a firearm exported to be worked-on and then re-import it, no problems at all. Although it may or may not drop-off his licence when that happens (depending on the circumstances, length of time, etc). Hence my question to the OP.

Registration, sale and purchase and import of normal sporting firearms isnt an issue in 7 of those 8 provinces - very easy - as there aren't really any limitations on the ownership of those firearms, provided you have a firearm licence.

Sounds slightly murky IMO.

As a minimum, I would have the owner of the rifle, send you a signed, notarized letter, stating that you are bringing his rifle, (description of rifle) back to him per his request or something like that.

Might save you a lot of legal hassles.

BH63

Thanks for all the help. The more I checked into it the more complicated it got. Technically, it would be considered an export involving permits and license, plus the value of this rifle is high enough I would be extremely uncomfortable putting it as my check on baggage. Simpson LTD does that sort of thing and I feel like that would be the best way to go. Again, thanks for the help.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Sounds slightly murky IMO.

As a minimum, I would have the owner of the rifle, send you a signed, notarized letter, stating that you are bringing his rifle, (description of rifle) back to him per his request or something like that.

Might save you a lot of legal hassles.

BH63

Grey is a better description Wouldn't have been grey at all on the Australian end if it was still registered in Australia. Probably more chance of it going south on the US-end these days - as Bama15 wrote - US export permits are probably required by law for such a thing.

If the firearm was still registered in Australia all you need is the relevant state B709 A importation form.

If it's not registered then you will need a B709 form linked to the guys license ( so that it can be registered) and a Permit to Acquire in his name and it could be subject to duty and GST.

That is essentially what the Australian authorities will want...........

In 2002 I took a 7 mag to RSA. The rifle was won in a Ducks Unlimited auction. I filed out a single customs 4457 form and had my other rifles listed on another form. I just left the rifle with the owner in RSA and had no need to do show and tell with that single form so I threw it away in Africa. No problem upon return to USA as all my guns where listed on the proper form.

^
Yes, but Africa is not Australia.

If someone in RSA were killed by that rifle, I wonder if you could be sued for bringing in the rifle without the proper import documentation???

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
^
Yes, but Africa is not Australia.

If someone in RSA were killed by that rifle, I wonder if you could be sued for bringing in the rifle without the proper import documentation???

BH63

I'm pretty sure the PH would have provided the necessary paperwork to import the rifle, without which would not have cleared customs and once registered in the new owner's name, would think it would automatically nullify the 4457.
Make no mistake, the RSA authorities are pretty stringent when it comes to firearms.

Two ways of looking at it:

1. The outfitter has put you in the position of violating U.S. export laws. He is an ass doing so. Don't do it.

2. The chances that anyone in the U.S. government catching you is slim. He is still an ass.

He can bring it home the next time he visits the U.S. looking for customers.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Two ways of looking at it:

1. The outfitter has put you in the position of violating U.S. export laws. He is an ass doing so. Don't do it.

2. The chances that anyone in the U.S. government catching you is slim. He is still an ass.

He can bring it home the next time he visits the U.S. looking for customers.

George

+1

I'd have thought that taking a firearm out of the USA without an export certificate and/or end user certificate and leaving it in another country (even if the paperwork is correct in that country) is tantamount to illegal arms dealing which in this post 9/11 world in which we live is asking for big trouble........ And I'd have also thought that discussing and/or admitting having done so or planning to do so on an open forum which I have no doubt is monitored by everyone from PETA to ATF is (to say the very least) nothing short of asking for even bigger trouble.

Rather than involving myself in a gun situation that involving shipping out of the country, I use a professional. I've used Sans-Nom in the past. They can be reached at WWW.SANS-NOM.com or 253-327-1911.

Dave

I think many people do not seem to appreciate the drastic change in both the laws and attitude towards travelling with firearms.

Ok, I understand all that's been said here on this deal.
BUT: What happens if a gun is temp/export for a hunt in OZ then it's stolen over there???

Yep, another can of worms, but, I'd like to hear some comments. Thanks guys.
George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Ok, I understand all that's been said here on this deal.
BUT: What happens if a gun is temp/export for a hunt in OZ then it's stolen over there???

Yep, another can of worms, but, I'd like to hear some comments. Thanks guys.
George

Or given as a gift, etc.