I recovered two bullets from wildebeast on my recent hunt on Good Hope Ranch with Katte. We both questioned whether these 450-400 400 gr soft points would be good choices on tougher critters like buffalo.

Rifle: 450-400 3", tropical load 1970 fps.

Shot one: transverse frontal shot on blue wildebeast, went between ribs, took off the top of the heart and buried in the paunch. Range about 50 yards. Total penetration seemed to be about 2 feet or so. No indication that other bones were hit. The shank almost disappeared, expanded to 1.04 inches. Weight 317.5 grains, or 79%

Shot two: finisher through the spine of another wildebeast from about 10 ft. Retained 290.5 grains or 73%. Retained .6 inch of shank length.





I was surprised, as Woodleighs are the go-to bullet for nitro express rounds. With the overexpansion of the first shot, I'm not sure it would make it through the shoulder of a buffalo to the vitals.

I know many others have had great performance. I wonder if I have a sub-standard batch?

Bob

Bob,
I think my choice given these samples would be to stay with the Solids. I have shot buffalo with the 470 and Woodleigh softs and had a pass through. I am not sure I have seen Woodleigh perform like this. The various softs I have seen recovered have a mushroom shape. These look like a Sierra SP! Interesting photos.

Maybe the wildee had been eating rocks.

500 grain Woodleigh Solid and Soft recovered from Buff

Are those Woodleigh Weldcores?

Weldcore RN SP .411
I'm amazed the first bullet retained over 300 grains, as it flattened out like a fifty cent piece. Virtually no shank left. Will, I watched the skinner dig this out of the gut: all grass, no rocks.
Bob

Bob, how about the protected point they offer also???

Mike

Man, that's a tad disappointing ......
For the calibers where they're available, Swift A-Frames are tops ..... but I'm not sure if they make .411 diameters.

I haven't tried the protected points. Are they available in .411? Bob

I do not see any reason to not use them, but you do, so use something else. If you do not have faith in your equipment that is a bigger problem in my view than the expansion of these bullets.

I've seen some example of Woodleighs that were absolutely turned inside out and flat as a pancake.

I've personally always had good luck with them.

Bob
I have only even used woodleigh projectiles in all my rifles(500jeffery,404jeffrey,9.3x62,300H&H mag,35whelen,have also owned 470and 450-400)I have had the same results on front on shots or those that are quartering were the bullet goes into the gut.Any bullet that ends in the gut has usually ended up like this,in fact i shot a buff with the 500 at 20feet with a soft which open up like this and was found on the opposite shoulder.The buff ran fifty feet and dropped I put in another of insurance .The PH did nothing but bag the rounds but at the end of the day i said to him"its dead isn't it?" It may not look pretty but who cares so long as it kills them?

I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff they're Wodleigh SPs and not PSPs. The SPs are recommended for use on lighter game and cats and from my experience, they work bloody well on those animals. The PSP is the one recommended for heavier game including Buffalo and again, from my experience, they work bloody well for their intended use.

I have on occasion used the SP for coup dr gras shots on Buff at very close range and they end up like the one on the left:

I used the .320 gr Woodleigh im my 9.3x64 for leopard and it worked very well, dito for a big warthog.

But I´d probably choose A-frames for buff.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Maybe the wildee had been eating rocks.

quote:

I've seen some example of Woodleighs that were absolutely turned inside out and flat as a pancake.

I've personally always had good luck with them.

Ditto.

While I applaud Woodleigh for biting the bullet and making so may different caliber solids and softs, especially for the duplication of the old NE rounds, if for no other reason they should be purchased just to keep them afloat, it is just hard for me to justify using any other soft than the Nosler Partition for the small and medium stuff or A-Frames for the big stuff like buffalo, assuming they come in the desired caliber and weight, especially in the somewhat marginal cases like the .375 for buff.

This thread is a great companion to the "350gr Woodleigh" question over on the Big Bore Forum. Why risk performance like that when a Swift, TSX can deliver much better performance and penetration? jorge

Despite the stream of insults that will be directed at me I have found Woodleigh softs too soft.I have had them fail to penetrate from my 500 Nitro and my 378 on buf.They make a great solid and that is what I would use in your rifle for buf.
The experience of them staying together but almost turining inside out is not rare-not a failure but no good for penetration

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I've seen some example of Woodleighs that were absolutely turned inside out and flat as a pancake.

I've personally always had good luck with them.

In others experiences & referring to the bullets pictured at the beginning of this thread, is this kind of performance mainly with the round nose SPs or does it also affect the PPSPs as well, I've always liked the look of the PPSPs & thought the 340gr 416s might be good medicine in a 416 Taylor.
Steve.

I'd gladly use a Woodleigh on anything that walks, crawls, swims or flies.

I have found that as long as one stays within the prescribed velocity envelope, Woodleigh bullets just plain kill.

I have always heard good things about woodleighs. Still, having this bullet fail to penetrate more than about 2 feet and overexpanding makes me question how it would do on a buffalo shoulder. These loads were chrony'd at less than 2000 fps.

Anybody shoot a buff this season with 411 woodleighs? I also looked at their catalog on line and didn't see protected points listed for the 450-400.


Anybody try the new Hornday Dangerous Game softs yet? Bob

I have shot a lot of Buffalo with Woodleigh bullets and have a lot of perfectly recovered bullets..I suspect you didn't do your homework and your shooting the bullet that is designed for the smaller animals as Woodleigh are velocity specific..I have used RN the PP in my 450-400-3" at 2200 FPS, in the 404 at 2400 and 2653 FPS, in the 416 Rem. and 375 H&H all without failure..

I have had one Woodleigh split on the teeth of a buffalo, a failure? probably not as half went down his throat and half into his neck, but any bullet can be cut in half on teeth. I have had two Barnes X loose all the petals, and I have had one Swift break in half and found another under the skin on the off shoulder of a buffalo and that buff had scar tissue through both lungs, shallow on one lung and center on the other..That wound was at least two years old and the bullet was encased in cartlidge and the old bull was fat. I have never had a Noslers fail but have seen them blow the front section off but I don't think thats failure its just less than desirable..If a Nosler or monolithic blows the front off then your driving it too fast or you can use a heavier bullet to correct that situation.

The point is anything made by man can fail and does on ocassion.

All in all I have used Woodliegh bullets for about 40 plus years and am more than satisfied with them, but there are many other good bullets out there today, so you have a choice, but they too may not satisfy you completely.

Today I would use any Barnes, Swift, Woodleigh, GS Customs, North Fork, and a few others..Todays bullet makers are a far cry from yesterdays bullet makers. Good on em!

Ray, the woodleighs are designated on the box as appropriate for velocities 1800-2200, and they are the 'weldcores.' Muzzle velocity from my double was 1970 max. Not an issue of homework, these are the woodleighs made for 450-400's. If anybody can find protected points in .411 400 grains, I'd consider them above the conventional soft points.

40A .408" 400gr RN SN 50 .344 .307 1800-2200 1.298
40 450/400 Nitro .411" 400gr RN SN 50 .338 .307 1800-2200 1.298
40B 450/400 3" for Ruger .410" 400gr RN SN 50 .338 .307 1800-2200 1.305
41A .408" 400gr FMJ 50 .344 .300 1.412
41 .411" 400gr FMJ 50 .338 .300 1.412

The above is from Woodleigh's web page. No listing for a protected point .411. He carries them in .375 and .416, but not .411.

It did work great on a wildebeest, took off the top of the heart, and he ran 50 yds max.

I want to look at all the options for 450-400's before I shoot one at a buff. I'd be inclined to shoot a woodleigh solid before I risked a shot with these softs. Maybe a bad batch? Bob

According to their website www.woodleighbullets.com.au in the "History" link, Woodleighs were developed around 1979 with the first export in 1985.

So.....Ray, have you really used Woodleighs for over 40 plus years as stated above?

Since this is a technical discussion let's be technically accurate in our statements.

You may have got a bad batch of bullets. It does happen to the best bullet makers. I suggest you e-mail Geoff Mcdonald of Woodleigh and send him your pics. He will give you good advice.

You can e-mail him at zedfield@iinet.net.au

465H&H

I'd say it's time for this whole soft point craze to blow over. If it's a big tough SOB shoot 'em with a solid and be done with it. Especially a flat nose solid.

quote:

especially in the somewhat marginal cases like the .375 for buff.