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Wow - I guess we see things very differently. There was never any intent to impune anyone's integrity. That said, I personally do not think for a minute that every celebrity who is paid to endorse a product believes in his / her heart that it the absolute best product on the market and would use it to exclusion of all others. I guess you guys are the exception. | |||
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I would say those last two statements are accurate. In a lifetime of hunting I have used just about every bullet out there with few exceptions, and agree that there are OUTSTANDING choices for todays hunters. This was a simple thread dedicated to the effectiveness, or perceived lack of, with the Hornady DGX. I have given my views, and experiences as have others. Not all opinions have matched..FINE. Please read your post again when you questioned "what we really use." If you do not make the connection to my ruffled feathers, then lets let it drop. But yes, we really have great faith in our sponsors products and would not accept sponsorship if it were otherwise. If we used lesser gear on our shows, would the proof of it's design or performance flaws not be evident in a show that runs 52 weeks a year for 8 years straight? That is my last word and I hope all will understand my thoughts. Dave Fulson | |||
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From what I have seen, it seems that the DGX bullet jackets and cores are too brittle (i.e., too hard), and not bonded together. Thus the jackets and cores shear, break apart and separate. Not good. Perhaps good enough, nine times out of ten, but not each time and every time. A DG bullet needs to be as close to 100% as can be economically achieved. I'm sure that no manufacturer wants to revisit basic decisions, reorganize materials sources and suppliers and rework production methods. But all in all, these problems seem like relatively easy fixes if Hornady truly wants to make a superior bullet. Make the cores or jackets or both somewhat more malleable and bond them together. Hornady seems to get its DG bullets wrong as often as right, and they're always monkeying around with them. The original steel jacketed solids were great. But then they went to brass jacketed solids, and then to encapsulated solids, neither of which worked reliably. Now we have the DGS, with its steel jacket and flat nose, which by all accounts seems to be back on the right track. For softs, we had the old, mechanically and internally "locked," Interlock bullet. That was a good, but not great, DG bullet (although possibly better than the current DGX). Then came the disastrous, fragmenting Interbond softs. And now the clearly iffy DGX. Come on Hornady, go back to the drawing boards, get it right and leave it alone! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I see that hornady make the interlocked in 416 cal 400 gr. I got some a few weeks ago. How do these perform compared to the DGX? Are they the same as the old ones ot have these also changed? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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The Interlock by Hornandy is a simple cup and core bullet. It is NOT a heavy duty bullet by any means. It'll be fine down in NZ for shooting hogs and stags and such but DO NOT attempt to use the Interlock on heavy DG animals. It simply is not that kind of a bullet. | |||
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Hornady DGX & DGS Ammo. I have used the 450 NE in both and the 375 H & H if DGX. With 2 cape buffalo taken both Bullets performed well. 450NE. Both put holes in both side of the animal. 1st one was shot and took 2 steps and went down the second one. Looked like Swiss cheese from both sides on the cape buffalo however we did have to follow - tract that one. open plains and went for neared stand of trees, easy tracking. Lead tracker was on him like grease lightening. 375 H & H at the range only so far. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Maybe they should just make brass. That's why paid endorsements are just that. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Guys, as I mentioned before - I'm new to the Hornady ammo lines. But as of just this morning, I've shot the asiatic water buffalo in Argentina two weeks ago (bull down in less than 10 seconds - 2 shots) a hippo (1 shot under the ear and dead) 1 African lion hit on the shoulder (1 shot down/dead in 5-10 seconds) and 1 cape buffalo (2 shots and he was down in LESS THAN 5 seconds). I was using a .416 Ruger, with Hornady's DANGEROUS GAME SERIES ammo, both soft/solid. Seems pretty good so far to me, but I'm no bullet expert. To me, "dead is dead". No! I'm am not paid a single dime by Hornady!! | |||
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Aaron is right. Hornady DGS/DGX just works. What do I mean by "works"? Simple, it kills things! We can theorize about bullet design and failure all day long, but if it does the job it's just that, theory. | |||
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gents - sorry to chime in so late - yes i use exclusively hornady bullets myself however even though i host our show , i guide people who have all manner of bullets and rifles so i get to see a lot of performance from all kinds of equipment and you quickly see what works and what doesnt.. with my 600 hornady built me some custom monolithiocs that have worked exceedingly well for me , i havent fired a soft through my 600 of any make ... as far as the DGX ammo i have a seen some of the seperations that you describe however they have always been on bullets taken out of dead animals ..many many buffalo i have seen killed the bullet seperated but after passing through the shoulder blade and sometimes a rib aswell and into the boiler room.Overall though they have performed well , again i havent weighed or minutely examined each and every one .. i took the first GMX - gilded metal expanding bullets in 375 to tanzania earlier in the year and Dan Catlin actually killed the first cape buffalo ever killed with one of those bulletts , it performed superbly and i think as they grow this line to include the other heavier calibres it will soon be seen as the very best buffalo bullet that there is ...after dans buff we took three more with the same ammo all with excellent results and devastating effects to the buffalo... as a PH i personally carry solids in my rifle and just have two softs on my belt in case of a cat followup so 99% of my shooting is with hornady DGS in the case of my 450 and the custom monos in the case of my 600. yes i wear the hornady logo , yes i am proud to do so and yes i have hornady solids in my rifle every day that i hunt ! to briefly address my integrity with regards to sponsor products - yes we have said no to sponsors who have offered us money to promote their products -products that we dont believe in in the current economy thats a tough reply to someone offering substantial money. you will never ever hear me saying "this is the only product YOU should use" however i will clearly and truthfully state what i use and what the valuable attributes of the service or product is. ruger is a great sponsor and maker of excellent firearms but you wont see me approaching a herd of elephants with a bolt gun - i am very proud of the people who sponsor the safari classics team , i truly believe in the products they produce and services they offer and not for one second would i consider promoting or being seen to promote a product or service that i have not tried and believe in ... we currently have a couple of sponsors whose direct competition has offered us significantly more money to use and endorse them but the services and products are of lesser quality than what we currently use and so that has not been something we would consider. i apologize for hijacking this thread with sponsor info but i believe the recent threads have been needing of this reply. thanks for reading and have a great evening "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Great to hear Ivan...we leave for SA tomorrow and I've got 60 freshly loaded 250 grain 375 GMX in my suitcase. Vanessa hopes to shoot a lion with one and I'll run several through assorted plains game with any luck. If they perform as well as the smaller caliber GMX they are sure to be a winner. Vanessa took an Asian water buffalo last year with a 139 grain 7mm GMX and it made it through a shoulder and four feet of buff so no surprise the .375 worked superbly. What velocity were you guys shooting them at? Info on loads is a bit hard to come by right now. | |||
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Ivan: On the opening scenes of your show Dark and Dangerous that I watch, as well as your video that I also have  it shows you killing a charging lion with your double. Were you using solids there or DGXs?USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Ohhhh ... don't you think they should stay together, through thick and thin? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Very well stated Ivan - thanks for taking the time to share your personal views on this subject. | |||
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So Ivan, with the greatest respect, in your opinion are the DGX better or worse than a Woodleigh Soft, North Fork Softpoint, or Swift A-Frame of the same caliber and weight? Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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chuck , based on your comment earlier that Hornady should stick to just making brass i feel you are trying desperately to get me to slam hornady - sorrty that wont happen , i use their ammo and actually like their ammo , all the bulletts you mention will work just fine on a buffalo and in a clients gun i am confident with all the brands you mention ...i dont think any are better or worse .. we all know that one of the best bulletts for buffalo out there is the barnes triple shock and i am very excited with the hornady GMX that they are starting to make in the heavier calibres ..that is going to be truly devastating when they make it in 450  for peope who book a safari with chifuti and opt to use company rifles and ammo, they are provided with DGX ammo for buff... we have not had DGX problems in several years. The initial ones were not tough enough, but based on the tons of buffalo shot with the Chifuti rifles over the past few years, they seem to be right i am not really a bullett guy, i dont reload but i also have a hard time when a guy describes bullet failure in a bullett that he removed from a DEAD animal  thats exactly what i want after a shot - a dead animal- with all the different angles , even the difference between a load bearing bone and a non loaded bone , it would be tough to replicate terminal performance to accurately compare bulletts..but thats just me i appologise in advance if further replies on this thread are tardy however i will be starting an elephant hunt tommorow and will have limited internet access thank you gents ... "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Nice reply Ivan. People have different levels of expectation from their rifles, bullets and such. And you are absolutlely correct in that examining the bullets, all have come from dead animals. As much as I like the Hornady performance in my smaller calibers, I won't be using the DGX myself. Maybe I got some of the older ones before they redesigned them but I would like to see the bullet hold together better. Good Hunting | |||
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Ivan, thank you for replying. I like Hornady brass, I've never been a Hornady bullet fan, but haven't used the DGX. For non premium bullets for North American Game, I washappy with Corelokts as long the velocity wasn't too high until the late 60's. Partitions solved that problem for our local North American game. That being said, I just started shooting TSX's a few years ago, so I'm not entirely Cro Magnon with regards to bullets (not that you implied that which you didn't). I'm not trying to get you to slam a sponsor but do appreciate your opinion. I've always enjoyed your hunting shows and do really respect both your courage, skill and guiding from afar. I just think this is a forum where nothing is sacred regarding equipment and everyone really should try and iron things out at home before encountering the beasties. I really appreciate your honest response. Thank you. Best Regards Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I have thought that the monometal GMX might be a great bullet, as long as the gilding metal alloy that Hornady is using can be relied upon to open up. Good to hear, Ivan, that the .375 version worked well on buffalo. The design of the GMX reminds me of the now discontinued Hirtenberger ABC bullet - except that the GMX uses a polymer tip to initiate expansion, whereas the ABC bullet used a lead tip. The Hirtenberger bullet is extremely reliable, in my experience. The GMX is also similar in design to the Barnes TTSX bullet, except the GMX, being an alloy, is harder. That can be a good thing for high velocity rounds, as a somewhat harder bullet will most likely stay together and penetrate farther before shedding any "petals." As long as it's not so hard as to be brittle. The GMX certainly seems like a better design than the DGX. Let's hope it continues to be proven reliable in the field, and that if so, Hornady expands the line to include heavier calibers. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Ivan:  | |||
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Guys, yesterday I shot a 42" buff here in Moz - facing straight on at roughly 80 yards. One shot with the .416 Ruger, using the Hornady DGX bullet - and the buff went 30 yards and was down in 10 seconds. Just more of the same results for me so far with this caliber/bullet combo over the past month. I leave for AUS on June 5th for a couple of buffalo. Will then be able to give more info/experience. | |||
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Hey Aaron - congrats on the fine buffalo!! Have you recovered any of those projectiles recently? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Yes Matt, I have recovered a couple. Will post them in the report. | |||
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With all the non-jacketed bullets available today, Barnes X and similar made bullets, I would never dream of using a jacketed bullet. With a jacketed bullet, especially at high velocity, there is always a likelihood of bullet failure. On one safari, I used Sierra Match King bullets. They were driven at over 3400 fps, 30 caliber, 180 grains. They killed everything I shot with them. But, although they killed the animals, they disintegrated completely in the process. That was on a hunt in South Africa. Hunting large game animals like cape buffalo, I will stick to non-jacketed bullets. | |||
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The 570 Grain (.500NE) DGS performed awesome on a buffalo last fall. Actually recovered one that went through the Buffalo, through a tree partially and wound up in a hollow part of it. Looked down and it was there, it was kind of a cool find. Bullet just had rifling grooves and DID NOT deform or anything, just great performance. The DGX do not hold weight. The Barnes TSX's performed flawlessly out of my .375 H&H and .500NE Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Hornady DGX/DGS performance?
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