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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Any idea what went wrong?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I had an interesting first experience with my new Sako 75 in 375 H&H. It was standard, out of the box, no muzzle break. I was shooting Federal 300 gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. I took fifteen from the bench at 100 and five offhand at 50. (I'm right handed.) The first seven or eight felt fine. I thought it kicked less than I imagined it would. I was wearing a Browning shooting shirt with a Reactor pad and paying attention to where I was placing the butt of the gun. The result (within a few hours) was tremendous brusing from the point of the shoulder inward to above my right nipple, and more surprising to me, complete bruising from the point of the shoulder on the entire inside of the bicep to the point of the elbow. I don't know what I did wrong, but I did it big-time. At this point I'm not very good about getting my wallet out of my hip pocket and would not be interested in scratching my left ear with my right hand. I'll be going to my doctor today for my annual physical. I'm sure he's going to think I was in a train wreck when he sees the shoulder and arm. I had hurt my right rotator cuff when playing baseball about thirty years ago. I don't know if that had anything to do with the damage now. I felt like I had the butt of the gun placed correctly. Maybe I was holding it a little loose on some of the later shots, but I don't remember doing that. Since there doesn't appear to be any pain in the bicep, I suspect the blood came from the shoulder area and just settled (gravity) to the bicep. This certainly was an interesting first experience with big-bores. Any thoughts, solutions, or similar experiences would be appreciated. Did I just take too many from the bench? I'm sore as Hell, but it pisses me off as much as anything else. What do you think went wrong? | ||
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Have seen it a couple of times- a small arteriol gets pinched and you get a bruise from hell. Saw it once in a guy zeroing a .458 from the bench and at least twice in the helicopter gunners on the buffalo culls. They were shooting downwards at an odd angle and occasionally something got pinched. | |||
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Although I don't consider the 375 to be a real hard kicker, you probably shot to many rounds at one time. 15 rounds off the bench without a PAST recoil pad just might give you the results you experienced. Hope it heals soon!! John | |||
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You have soft nipples!!   Actually several things can happen, my first guess is you hold the gun too loosly, and the gun is getting a running head start at your shoulder... A .375 should not bruise you, unless the scenario explained by Ganyana takes place..The only bruising I have ever gotten has been from shooting a shotgun about 1000 or so times in a single day in Mexico, but I have a very tough old leather like shoulder from shooting for years, the only recoil that bothers me is getting my neck snapped or a comb in my cheek.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Kensco, I did this once with a 7mm Rem Mag of all things, and it was a broken blood vessel in the shooting shoulder. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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There's a humongous vein on the front of your shoulder between the deltoid and pectoralis muscle--this has multiple feeders off of it to the muscles--you probably tore one of the feeders. And you're right--the blood goes where gravity takes it. It'll heal...but it'll be sore for a little bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalic_vein | |||
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The doctor pretty much concurred with the opinions given here. Ganyana nailed it. I could tell by the doc's look that he thought playing golf the next day wasn't too bright. I told him I was going to play again Sunday with my son in New Mexico. I think that's when he decided to use two fingers for the digital prostate examination. He said that playing golf wouldn't be life threatening but it would set back my recovery by a week or so. I see my son once a year so I'm playing. I appreciate the comments provided here. It sure spooked me. It made we wonder whether I could handle the 375. If I had busted myself like this right prior to a hunt, I'm not sure I could hold still for a shot on game. I'm going to take it real easy next year when I loosen up again just prior to my hunt. I will have a PAST recoil pad. I was happy with the Sako. It shot within an inch or so at 100. I watched my son shoot it once and the kick was straight back, no muzzle flip. With it sighted in now I shouldn't have to take more than two to three from the bench next time. By the way, the doctor said my nipples looked prett good to him, which may mean the only change I need to make is to find a new doctor. | |||
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How old are you? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Kensco What you experienced isn't abnormal. I once was working up loads for my .375 and fired between 20 and 30 from the bench fairly quickly. It was very hot so only wore a very light shirt. I ended up with a pitch black bruise the size of a butter plate on my shoulder and by the end the pain in my shoulder with each shot travelled down to my finger-tips.  Now I am much smarter and no matter what the heat wear a jacket and pad a towel on my shoulder underneath. Shooting a 12g hundreds of times is nothing compared to a .375 twenty plus times. Indeed none of my 12-bores until this last weekend even have recoil pads (all wooden or metal). The way to fix it is to trade up to a .450 (or bigger). Then you switch down to the .375 for recoil relief after every few shots and it feels like a .22 rimfire  . | |||
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I have never experienced heavy bruising, but several times I have shot heavy rifles with no apparent discomfort at the time, only to later almost loose the use of the arm for several hours. I generally shoot customs with well fitted stocks, wear a PAST shield, and hold the stock tightly. That seems to avoid the "hurt". However, its always been my theory that pain is one thing and recoil energy another. If you shoot a really heavy rifle repeatedly and quickly, the effect is cumulative. That recoil energy has to be absorbed by your body, and even if it is not painful, the effect is much like getting punched in the shoulder over and over by a boxer. Enough of that, and the shoulder simply gets too tired to use. | |||
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I agree with the accumulation theory. I didn't feel a significant change with any one shot. I'm 58. The bruise has now traveled down past my elbow but is beginning to break-up higher on my arm and chest. I can get to my wallet and left ear if I take it slow. I think in a few more days I will be feeling better. My wife is showing me no sympathy. She figures it was self-induced. | |||
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Yes, I also agree it's accumulative. And especially from the bench, after a few rounds each seems to get progressively a little stronger until you're thinking, man, how many more have I got to test yet !! Kensco, I think you should immediatlely go fire about a dozen more, that way you won't be able to get to that wallet for the wifey for another couple a weeks . . . you don't need to get to your left ear anyway, Waidmannsheil, Dom. -------- There are those who only reload so they can shoot, and then there are those who only shoot so they can reload. I belong to the first group. Dom --------- | |||
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I've got bruising off the bench several times, but none as bad as you describe. IMHO lots of people don't hold a rifle correctly, until they get a big kicker and learn how or quit shooting it. When you're shooting off the bench, you're probably in the wrong position for your Sako. You need to be sitting mostly erect, so that the recoil is absorbed from your upper body not from just your shoulder. JD | |||
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Joel C That was an interesting look at the Cephalic Vein. I feel like I popped it or something related to it. As of today I am the proud owner of a PAST Shooting Shield; the heavy-duty wimps-only version. If they made one thicker I would have bought it. I don't want to have to go through this again. I may sneak out next week and try it out if the shoulder feels better. I've got a better range of motion today, and the bruising now extends halfway down my forearm. (My wife says I'm pretty damn ugly. I'm not sure whether she is referring to the arm.) | |||
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Kensco You don't want to develop a flinch. If you think you might have started or "worry" about the rifle take it easy, maybe just two or three standing shots, plus use some lighter rifles next go. | |||
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I've had my shoulder actually start bleeding on a dove hunt back home, we were on a 3 day dove/upland hunt and I had brought an over and under with a hard but plate for upland and a beretta a303 for dove, except I forgot to put the beretta in the truck and ended up shooting the over and under for everything, after a few thousand shells I got a horrible bruise and it actually popped into a bleeding sore the last day, needless to say I was to stuborn to quit shooting because my friend and I had a small bet going and each dove was worth 1 dollar, anyway I couldn't lift my arm for 2 weeks and couldn't shoot anything but a .410 for about a month....... I did win $300 though | |||
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The shoulder didn't get better in time to do any more shooting with the 375. I've got an interesting picture of my bruised shoulder if anyone wants to try to post it. I'm amazed how gravity let the bruise migrate. It ended up down to my right wrist one direction and about three inched above my belly-button the other way. I hope this was a once in a lifetime experience. | |||
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I once tore my thigh muscle and the bruising ran down my leg (from front of thight around to the inside of my knee). I believe it was blood from the tear running under the skin. Could be a similar injury. GTR | |||
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Wow, sounds ugly, but as said it must have broken a blood source under the skin. As Ray mentioned, I always hold my heavy rifles SNUG into my shoulder and face, doing this I've never had a problem even off the bench with my .458 #1 and it's factory recoil pad! .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
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I guess felt recoil is subjective, but I shoot shotguns a good deal, and I'd rather fire a .375 H&H 20 times from a bench before trying it with ten 12 bore slugs any old day. I've not a lot of experience with big bores, but have shot a few, and after taking some pokes with the likes of .375 H & H and .458 Win, decided they were comparable to shooting heavy goose loads out of my twelves. But again, I guess it depends on a lot of things, not the least of which being who's getting punched in the arm. KG ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Only cost you a month's hunting and two weeks worth of work or whatever? Yeah, I'd say you won big and sure showed him who was boss!  Part of what I love about AR is learning that I am *far* from being the only part-time dumbass. KG P.S. Comments above not to be taken as insult. ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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JD nailed it: When shooting a big bore from the bench try to be as upright as possible. Also, I would strongly suggest getting either an XLT Magnum or R990 Pachmayr recoil pad for your 375. I put an R990 on mine and it is by far the best I have ever tried. It made a HUGE difference. You usually have to order them online because the stores don't carry these higher end models. Bob There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/   | |||
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Shooting a 12 gage off the bench with slugs is akin to touching off a howitzer from the shoulder...Felt recoil rivels the 458 Lott IMO... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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This exact same thing happened to me this past summer. I was shooting some 250gr barnes solids out of a 338 win mag, had a sharp pain, the arm got sore and by the next morning I had a bruise from my neck half way down my bicep. Healed up nicely though. I'm sure it was the way I held the rifle for that particular shot and knew I screwed up right away. If it happens again it won,t be because I was careless with the rifle position. | |||
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