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| one of us |
Not in Idaho, we still cherish the old ways, stand for the flag, pray to God in our schools, and defy the Supreme Court on such issues, most around here still believe in God, motherhood and apple pie...God Bless America, and President Bush...It's a good feeling. Omit Blaine County (Sun Valley) from the above, they are refugees from California, with more money than since, it's the Hollywood scene of misfits...Much despised by the rest of the state. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Personally, I think finding such a story in a 7th grade class is a lot more likely that the story itself - which sounds pretty bogus (50 rounds of .45 acp in his pocket???). But that aside, you obviously haven't been reading the Big Game board. See the 7th Grade Bison Hunt - no story - a live action field trip! Feeling a little more cantakerous than normal today, I have to add this about Idaho - Number One Ranking State for the most white supremists (in and out of jail. Me thinks Sun Valley ain't all to worry about in ID. Brent | |||
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| <GAHUNTER> |
By the way, does anybody else remember this story and know who wrote it? I'd love to read it again, even though it probably wouldn't have the same effect on me today as it did that daydreaming-of-adventue kid I was 40 years ago. | ||
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| <Harry> |
When I was a kid there was not a Boy Scout Summer Camp nor Church camp that did not teach firearms safety and the various shooting positions. In Texas anyway...don't know about the rest of the states. I always looked forward to getting to shoot although I could shoot my own 22 any day of the week I wanted at home. Times have changed. | ||
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| <Peter> |
Actually, I have to confess that while reading your story (very well told by the way) I was rooting for the buffalo!! Peter. | ||
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one of us |
I remember walking down the street in our town with bb guns,then 22's to go shoot tin cans in the sand pit.No one thought anything of it. Times have changed.Sadly. | |||
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| <richard powell> |
I actually have the book at home that contains that article. I wonder if I can find it at noon??? If not, I'll look for it tonight ... | ||
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one of us |
Well I'm old like Ray, but I remember our school year never started till the 10th of September, because the dove season started on the first of September. and our first break was a week in November for Texas whitetail deer season! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Now! I'll go you one even better than that, I used to build rifles in our machine shop at American Airlines! ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} You think I'd get into the airport with even a barreled action, or even a stock for a rifle today? ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} BRENT The fifty rounds for the 45ACP is not hard to believe, you see, young man, most folks who carried a hand gun in the old days, used a pistol belt with fifty cartridge loops on it. This had to be along time ago, because most do not carry handguns in most African countries today. And it was written before GAHunter was in the 7th grade! As far as your comment about racests, I don't think Iowa has a shortage of them! ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} [ 02-06-2003, 22:33: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Well Mac, We don't have a shortage. I don't know any place that does unfortunately. But we are FAR behind ID, thank god (or whomever). 50 rounds of acp huh? That's what? 7 clips (I'm not a 1911 owner)? Okee dokee. Brent | |||
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| one of us |
In West PA I can believe that this story might be told in school. After all, the schools still close for the first day of deer season and doe hunting is treated as an excused absence. | |||
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| one of us |
yes how times have changed...i remember when my friend bought me an unwanted gun to school in a guitar case...try that now these days people think im sick when they see me taking my three and six year old shooting....i know who is sick regards daniel | |||
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| one of us |
Brent, For your information the State of Idaho and the Federal Agencies have shut down that compound in Northern Idaho, seized the property, arrested and prosecuted the leaders, and very, very few, if any of them are even left in the state, so if your going to come up with off the wall BS at least get it right, your condeming a lot of good, rightous Americans with you slanderous outdated crap.. We cleaned up our own backyard and damn proud of it, so when are you going to clean up yours since you seem to think its OK in your state and something all have to deal with suddenly!!, well we chose to kick'em out. | |||
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Tell 'm, Ray. The other states sent us their misfits, and we dealt with them...... Dutch. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Glad to hear they are cleaning up their problem there. I don't think any slander, however, was either intended or actually presented. I DID NOT say my state was okay - read it again. Congrats on the accuracy of your kicking and sorry to piss you off so badly. Brent | |||
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| <GAHUNTER> |
Richard, I sure hope you can find that story. That buffalo has haunted me for 40 years. It was this story that convinced me that the Cape buffalo is THE dangerous game in Africa -- living only to make impeteous young white men "one" with the African dust. Next year, however, I will finally get to discover for myself if the myth of the ferocious mbogo is true, or simply a ghost, lurking in the tangled jungle which is the imagination of a 12-year-old boy. The jury is still out. GAH | ||
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| <Peter> |
Well, I'll probably upset someone here (MacD37), but on a historical note, did people really carry 45ACP rounds around in belt loops? I would have thought that the ACP being rimless (and, much shorter than say a 45 (Long) Colt)might have had problems remaining in the loops. I would have thought that a round designed for magazine loading would have been better carried in magazines. What did the officers do in WWII and perhaps Vietnam,with their extra ammo? IPSC shooters carry bandoliers of extra mags but it sure doesn't look very practical! Peter. | ||
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| one of us |
quote:Why would your post piss me off? You're probably right, now that I re-read the origenal post. I thought I read that the pistol was a revolver,which is what I would think it was and simply assumed it was a 45 LC, because of the time frame it is supposed to have happened. I sincerely doubt the pistol was a 1911 Colt used in Africa. However, since nobody knows who wrote the story, or when it was written, I simply don't think it is worthy of arguement, untill someone uncovers it. The string certainly had nothing to do with "WHITE SUPREMISTS", and all I was saying was, if you live in a glass house......! The controversy all started when Brent, who was admittedly feeling argumentative, set out to piss people off! It worked, that's all! I see no justification for his hurt feelings when he enjected sarcasm, in a perfectly benign string! | |||
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| <GAHUNTER> |
To be honest, I am not 100 percent sure that it was a 1911 Colt. It's just that I SEEM to remember that it was a .45 caliber and that it was an automatic. I came up with the 1911 by default (who else made a .45 automatic back then?). Remember guys, I am recalling this from a one-time read in 1962! Gawd, do I feel old. | ||
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| one of us |
GaHunter: 7th grade in 1962 and you feel old? That makes you a spring chicken around these boards. Actually you and I are the same age, give or take a year, and I'm 39 and holding..... ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} I read that story too, but can't recall the type of handgun used. Why would anyone cheer for the buffalo? Because the guy wasn't carrying his own gun? According to all I read, that was often the norm back then, until the show went up. | |||
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| <GAHUNTER> |
Thanks Fat Cat, I thought me an Ray were the only nursing home occupants lurking on the boards. By the way, what time do the nurses serve the jello around here" | ||
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| <'Trapper'> |
GAHUNTER: Thank you, thank you thank you!! I watched the movie "Enemy at the Gates" and I KNEW I recalled the story of using the string and the pocket knife (Where the Russian sniper is pinned down in the old factory) to retreive the gun but for the life of me I could not recall where. Comes back clear now, from the same story. I do believe the story stated a "45 revolver" but would not argue the point. If you find the story please post up the details. Regards, | ||
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quote:Gee Mac, I see we are still chewing our oats this morning. Sorry to have rubbed your tender spots. Is it really such a big deal? Relax, have a homebrew or whatever. I think I'll go do something constructive like bunny hunting. Too much angst on this place. Brent | |||
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| <Paleohunter> |
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth here. Latley I have noticed trend reall y its been over years. I call it the "Pussifcation of The American Male." I think it sarted in the mid eighties I dont know befor that I was too young. However has anyone noticed that not only are hunters not considered heros and good people but that the whole presona of "maleness" is looked down up on. Example a TV comerciel(sp) about the Honda I dont know what its called some "cute little SUV" anyway it shows a bunch of guys going out camping they set up their tent, build a fire, grunt, looks like there haveing a good time. Then off in the woods they here a Banjo start to play the frist cords from Deliverance they all scream like sissys run to the SUV (that was never ment to be take off road) and go home. Now this would be funny except that I notice from the men around work and everywhere else that it would probily be true. Most boys/men have never been camping that did not involve a 30' camper with ac, microwave, sattlite TV, Play station, and telephone service, just to mention a few. How many non hunters do you think camp in a tent? Go two or three days without a shower? Have ever dug a hole in the ground to take a shit? Hell I know alot of hunters in TX that wont camp or hunt unless there is at least a 19' camper (bigger the better) or a hotel close by. Can anybody see where I going with this? Not only can a boy not walk through down town with his BB gun or 22, not only can a man not make a barreled action on his own time at work; men are not suppose to be men. My Grandpa was a man and a hero to me. He did not fight in any war hell he wasnt even in the military, but he was a woodsman frist class. He worked to support a wife and 4 kids one my Mom, He hunted, fished, camped in a tent untill he turn 58 and then bought a slide in camper with no (aminites) he considered it a duty to vote he hung a flag out on the forth of July and Vets Day ( he called it Armistice(sp) Day) Oh I almost forgot he thought a man to be as good as "Lost in the woods." if he did have a pocket knife on him. There are a few like him still around not many but once upon a time people like my grandpa were heros to alot of youth. Now we have tree huggers, vegg eaters, the PC croud and TV tell our boys and girls that real men are to have no facial hair or chest hair and if you do you go get it lasered off. That real men will always look like a prepubesant boys, are scared of dark and the woods, do not like guns or hunting, or fishing. That men are always wrong or are baffoons; and that the only reason men have to get married is that they need somebody to take the place of their Mommy. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed this? | ||
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| one of us |
Good shot Paleohunter! That was the jist of what Ray, and other old farts, like me, were trying to say, but it flew right over the heads of some of the targets it was aimed at! That is the result of Dr Spock generation of raising kids. Those are the kids who make the rules today. The PC crap that has been crammed into the heads of the young will be the bain of humanity, the rebeleous 60s was the catalist that started the idea that someone else is responsible for anything you do, as well as anything that happens to them. McDonald's made me fat, and I only murdered those old people because I had a very bad childhood, I didn't get my Trans AM when I was a freshman in high school! Besides all that, I was on drugs, and it is only my first murder! I was born when the depression was still rageing in the ranch country of Texas, and hunting, and trapping was a big part of haveing something to eat. A 7 yr old boy who couldn't shoot ducks with a 12 ga, or hit a squirrel in the head at fifty feet with a BB gun, or 22 short, was considered retarded, in my part of this nation! all my teachers, were hunters, and fishermen, both men, and women, who didn't get excited if you got off the school bus with your 22,and fishing pole, if you were spending the weekend at another studants ranch! I have a feeling this post is only preaching to the choir, and will only be seen as "I WALKED TEN MILES, IN THE SNOW, TO SCHOOL" and dismissed as just another old fart's rhetoric, and nothing more! So be it, we all had our day, that was mine! ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} [ 02-07-2003, 21:51: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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| Administrator |
Gentlemen, I remember going to school very early in the morning, with my 410 single shot shotgun. I put it in the corner of the classroom, and when school is over lunch time, I used to go to the salt flats that was not too far from there and shoot curlews and oyster catchers. Which I took home to my grandmother. We loved those birds. No one at school ever got bothered by my bringing in my shotgun. On some occasions, my granfather would drive into the school just before break time. He would go straight to the headmaster's office, and wait for me to finish so I can go with him hunting into the desert. Now when someone mentions the word "gun", people look at him as he has wet himself. | |||
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one of us |
I'm not as old as some here, maybe older than others. However, even 29 years ago a friend and I were asked by the school principal to eliminate groundhogs on school grounds. Seems they found the backfill on the new school buildings to be just the ticket for new home construction. So we shot groundhogs just outside of the school windows. His supervision consisted of counting groundhogs! | |||
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| One of Us |
Well in Australia the Bunny Shaggers are running the country so everything is protected, but it's fine for kids to "make there own decisions" and experiment with drugs.......but hunting no way that ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} 's prmoting violence. | |||
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| <Paleohunter> |
Thanks MacD37 My parents were that Dr Spock gen that raised me. However I had my Grandpa that I modeled myself after. My son was born last April, and the frist gift I bought him was a Savage 22 favorite for when he gets older. You should have seen the looks on peoples faces at work when I told them this, you would have thought I had committed a crime against humanity! They asked if I did this for my twin girls 7yr old I told them that they are well on their way to becoming marksman than me, and out shoot any of their BMW driving asses. I'am going to trie my damn best to raise my girls to be weman and my boy to be a man (and to let him know thats its aright to have hair on his chest.) | ||
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| Moderator |
Paleohunter, You are absolutely correct that there is a transition in the definition of "maleness" taking place. However you're way off in your guesstimate as to when it got started, as it was born in the 1880's, grew wings in the 1960's and resides, still, within the psyche of the other gender. Many men are only beggining to ponder why "times have changed" but it's already too late. | |||
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| <Paleohunter> |
Nickudo please do tell I am intressed. What started in the 1880s? The sixties I know or have read but I never thought it started as far back as the 1880s what was the catelist(sp)? | ||
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| <Infidel> |
quote:I'm with you on that. From Audey Murphy to Alan Alda in more or less one generation. quote:Have you noticed that TV is the most effective mind control mechanism ever invented? quote:Well, I vehemently disagree. I spend a whole hell of a lot more time in the woods and mountains not hunting than hunting, a lot more than all the big game seasons here combined. And I know a lot of non-hunters that do the same; I don't know any other hunters who do the same. Meanwhile, the hunters whom I know are the wimps. They do not know how to go out into the woods or mountains for a week or two carrying on their own back everything that they are going to need or want except water, while I know and meet a lot of cute little girls who do. The hunters usually need an elaborate camp, packed in via pack animals or ATVs, they are deathly afraid of the "wild", and can't imagine being there just for the sake of being there and not just for the hunt. The hunters are usually afraid of the woods and mountains and critters who live there full-time. For perspective, I'm referring to the Colorado mountains. The African bush would be a different matter. quote:Originally, it WAS "Armistice Day", celebrating the cease fire at the end of WWI (that's World War the First), 11:00 AM on the 11th day of the 11th month. Sometime in November or so, maybe the first part of December, my grandfather would need to borrow his son's and grandson's pocketknife, one incident for each son and grandson. If we handed him a knife, then that would be the end of it. If we didn't have a pocketknife, then there would be one under the Christmas tree. | ||
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one of us |
Paleohunter, MacD37, Saeed and all you other fine gents, have described one end of the spectrum, let me show you the other end. I'm 24, I live in Montreal, Canada. Montreal being the second-largest city in Canada, it's easy NOT to see the glory of 'mother nature' if you don't go out to look for it. My parents are what you call �bunny huggers�, and so is the rest of the family (aunts/uncles). As you can imagine, they really don't approve my hunting activities, which they traduce as the killing of innocent animals by bloodthirsty savages (... that's supposed to be us). I decided two years ago, at 22, to get myself a bow (not to shock anybody in my entourage with a rifle!?! still, they can kiss my buttocks, I'm getting a rifle this automn ) and picked up what I could on hunting.How am I suppose to become a good hunter if I have nobody to show me this primal art? Most of the hunters already have their partners, and they seem to be close-knitted groups. Anyways, I haven't caught anything yet, but still you'll see me in the woods/fields that I can rent to farmers around Montreal, as often as I can. I think that it is the responsibility of you, the experienced hunters out there, not to let down the new rookies. I must say that this forum is of great help (... and of great entertainment value ) to a newbie like myself.Guillaume PS My two cents: it's the big cities that crippled "Men" into a whimp. If God wanted us to be concentrated into ghettos he wouldn't have done what he did in Babel. Notice also on TV commercials that the 'male' is always the 'idiot' and the one that is wrong? Sure it's funny, but what does that teach our future generation? PPS My first tongue is French, so pardon my funny phrase structure. | |||
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| one of us |
I've lived my whole life in Mo. and every day I went to school I had a rifle in my car just in case I ran across a coyote or similar varmint. By the way I'm 45 years old, not that long ago. Now they'll kick a kid out of school for having a hunting rifle on the premises. By the way, I don't find it so odd that the guy shooting buffalo would have 50 rounds with him, I've got that many in my briefcase and I'm not planning on shooting anything today. I'm glad I grew up in an area where it was normal to kill, dress, cook your own food, work on your own car, tractor, etc. and not fall victim to the pussification of American males. My kids and grandkids won't either if I can help it. Also, Ray is right, Idaho is a great state, nice people, except in the Sun Valley area. The only other problem I see is they need to kill some goddamn wolves that are screwing up the hunting there and in Wyoming also. | |||
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one of us |
quote:In my daughters' school here in Wyoming they probably would. They still give kids time off to go hunting and teach hunter safety in school. Both of my daughters passed their hunter safety course in school and I think it was the 7th grade at that. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Last elk season I had the choice of sleeping in a nice warm motorhome or in a tent. I chose the tent. I just did not feel comfortable in the motorhome. It got down below freezing and the fire would go out. I just burrowed down into the sleeping bag a little deeper. Won't sleep inside unless I have to. Also about things changing. They are and the picture is not pretty. I have 2 daughters and I started taking them hunting with me as soon as they were potty trained. I can remember my oldest (now 18) watching me gutting an antelope while she was eating a Snickers bar. I bought her a 7mm Mag as her first rifle and I thought the recoil was too much for her but her attitude was "no dad, I can handle it". By the way she likes to shoot the .375 H&H also. The youngest one (now 16) had a day with dad when she was about 8 where dad and her went out to do what she wanted to do. She wanted to go elk hunting. Season was open, I had a tag so we went elk hunting. I got my elk and she got a little bit miffed because I would not let her field dress the elk. I pulled the liver loose and let her reach down into the guts and pull it out and put it in the bag. She was satisfied then. Not typical kids in this day and age. We as hunters today have a lot more responsibility to teach kids that hunting is a good clean ethical sport. My kids learned it at home. I think if we don't have children of our own go adopt some neighbor kids or from our church or something. [ 02-08-2003, 07:58: Message edited by: WyoJoe ] | |||
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One of Us |
Times have changed in a lot of ways but some old dogs aint gonna be recycled. What I find a real kicker are words like homophobe and such slants that attempt to justify the immorality of certian disgusting parasites. If my thinking that people who engage in a sick act is wrong makes me a "homophobe" then by george I guess thats what I am, but lets not let that cloud the issue. Sick and wrong is sick and wrong and no fancy words are going to change that fact. Then there is the "best man for a job is a woman" movement. Burn the bras and let woman reporters in mens locker rooms, let the girls play football with the boys. Its no wonder our young men are getting confused. Well, all I can say to that is as someone who drives a truck for a living, the afforementioned job, would definatley NOT include giving directions to truck drivers. Sorry ladies, but its a fact that the girl scouts need to spend more time on compass skills.. Im all for equal rights but lets face the facts, Girls aint guys and vise versa but that doesnt mean that it needs to become an unsurmountable issue, find your place in the sun and go with it and try to maintain some sense of values along the way. That sort of movement away from "A mans(/womans) role in life", as Nick alluded to has been going on longer than most of us have been alive (with a couple possible exceptions ). But still some change is good, I find it highly unlikley (at least where I live) that our children are as subjected to the "neighborhood bullies" as was the case when most of us were growing up. There will always be some of that but I doubt that they rule the roost like in times gone by. Some kids where I was schooled were just downright violent, and lots of other kids got pretty messed up as their victims. A movement away from that is a movement in the right direction IMO. [ 02-08-2003, 09:22: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ] | |||
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| Moderator |
quote:Wstrnhuntr, Yes, some changes are good and mutually desirable for both men and women, alike. But part of "our" problem is the tendency to see only the positives emanating from the thought processes of the other gender, often not taking issue with or missing altogether, those subtle processes that, do indeed, constitute a negative impact on "things men need have." I could go on for days on this topic but would only wind up in unresolvable debate. | |||
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| <GAHUNTER> |
Some observations to this point in the conversations: I wish my kids were in school in Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, or anywhere out west that, according to you guys, still value our rural traditions. For those of you who are "homophobes", are you really Afraid of gay folks? Because translated, that's what homophobe means. It's another one of those PC misnomers, like African-American (how many people who call themselves African-American were born in Africa, which is what they would have to have been for the African-American Handle to be correct)? And yes, some change is good. I grew up in a segregated south. I think back only with shame at the way my own father, grandfather and others treated black people back when I was a kid. That said, I don't want my kids to "pay" for the sins of their ancesters, which is what most on the left want. And Afro-centrism, affirative action, reparations for slavery, etc., are all attempts to make the present generation "pay" for past sins. But like Nicudu said, I could go on for days on this topic, but would only wind up in unresolvable debate. | ||
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| one of us |
quote:Reparations for slavery?????????? There were 1,000,000 people who died in the civil war, to make slaves free! I don't think those people who died were BLACK for the most part! It is my opinion, the the blood of 1,000,000 people "IS" all the reparation that was due, and the grave stones of the civil war are the receipt marked "PAID IN FULL"! I never did anything "TO" anyone because they were Black, and I refuse to do anything "FOR" them because they are black! Nothing should be done to, or for, anyone based on their race, be it black, white, yellow,green, or purple! Men, women, of all races should be judged on their qualifications to handle the job at hand, be it school admission, or job assignment. With the edge given to the most qualified! The removal of a job, or studant status, also should be dirrectly because of their willingness, and ability to do a job, or make grades. Not because of the accident of birth! This opinion may not be PC but it is true, and the truth will set you free! anthing else is not PC, it is BS! | |||
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