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Win. Model 70 Safari Express question.
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Since most Safari Express users visit this forum, I thought I would post this question here. How are the barrels bedded on your rifles. Are those of you that have accurate rifles free floated, full length glassed or partially bedded? I can get a couple of shots that will group tight and then it seems everytime I get a flyer that I cannot explain. Mine seems to have a small amount of upward pressure right at the last inch of the forend. When I got mine, it was glassed at the two recoil lugs and it looked like a small piece was missing on the action lug embuttment so I added some glass there and at the tang. Seemed to tighten the groups but it still isn't 100%. I am thinking about removing a little wood at the forend at free floating it out from the barrel lug. By the way, its a 375.Any ideas?
Doug

[ 06-20-2003, 05:14: Message edited by: Magnum hunter ]
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Asheville, NC USA | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
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my 416 was bedded with "goop" at the recoil lug, only... clear (i am way to hessitant to say freefloated) up the barrel was not touching.

IMNSO a HORRIBLE bedding job, but it shot under an inch, so who am I to say>

jeffe
 
Posts: 39874 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I had one in .375 with a crooked action and the barrel wasn't screwed in all the way. There was blue showing around 1/3 of the end of the barrel.

It was so bad that I couldn't get a Leopold scope to correct enough to get to the aimpoint. We thought the mounts were crooked at first...turns out it was just the action and the barrel.

I'm having it turned into a .416 Rem.
 
Posts: 580 | Location: Mesa, AZ | Registered: 11 May 2001Reply With Quote
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I have the exact same rifle. It shoots just fine--now. But it took a good gunsmith and some experimenting with different loads to to get it there.

I think most out-of-the-box rifles are a place to start. The M70 has always been pretty dependable. Mine was bought NIB in 1996, so I can't comment about current production rifles.

I had the same problem with the inexplicable flyer--about every 4th round--when I first shot my 375. After a bedding and trigger job plus a lot of false starts on load development, I finally solved the problem, but I can't actually tell you what did the trick. It sort of "healed" itself, and I've had it on two trips to Africa now, with very acceptable results.
 
Posts: 1555 | Location: Native Texan Now In Jacksonville, Florida, USA | Registered: 10 July 2000Reply With Quote
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Mine works great and except for the stupid rear sight being loose and couldn't be tightened, it shoots and feeds great. Jim Brockman fixed me up with his ghost ring pop-up sight, and sent me a new front sight that I adjusted.I mounted a 1.5 X 5 VX3 with Talley mounts (and Jims sight), developed some loads with the 400gr barnes X and solids and off to Tanzania. Antonio and I killed four Cape buffalo bulls with it. Antonio even had a chance to test it out on a charging buffalo and he and the 416 got the job done. I've found that many of the newer M70's need tinkered with but when they're right they're tops for the money. Good luck with yours.
 
Posts: 740 | Location: CT/AZ USA | Registered: 14 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Yeah, Pathfinder, my rear sight shot loose also, but was able to retighten it.
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Asheville, NC USA | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
<allen day>
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My .458 Win. Mag. is a Model 70 Super Express that I purchased in early 1995, and then reworked. It's the version that came with the red Pachmayr recoil pad, folding rear sight, Williams front sight ramp, and plastic pistol grip cap. I bought it because a full-custom .416 Remington I ordered proved to be a disfunctional catastrophy, I had a safari coming up in six months, I needed a rifle, and this .458 was available.

When I open the box, I thought it was a nice looking rifle, but it would need an overhaul before it would be Africa-ready. I took it to a good local riflesmith, and here's what we did with it:

It was obvious that the open sights were junk (the rear sight folded and its base was held on by ONE dinky screw!) so they were removed and discarded.

We installed a non-folding, milled-steel set of sights from Wisner's, and these were screwed and soldered to the barrel, and a 3/32" white bead was installed up front.

The plastic pistol grip cap was also discarded, and a steel replacement from Jerry Fisher was fitted.

That quicky-junk thermoplastic goop that USRAC squirts in at the factory was removed, and the receiver and barrel were re-bedded with Brownell's Steel-Bed. The barrel shank was bedded; the barrel-mounted secondary recoil lug was bedded; the balance of the barrel was free-floated; the receiver was bedded full-length, and even the trigger guard and floorplate hinge plate were bedded. In a nutshell, this rifle was bedded not only for greater precision, but for greatly increased strength as well.

We then installed a 1.5-5X Leupold scope in Leupold QR bases, along with an identical spare scope in another set of rings.

In addition, my riflesmith adjusted the trigger and adjusted the feeding. This rifle feeds very well and shoots surprisingly well, but the trigger was set too light. This caused grief later on in Africa, but that's another story........

The screws tended to loosen after a few shots, so I clean the threads and applied Lock-Tite, which solved that problem.

Knowing what I know now, I'd also replace the factory Model 70 extractor with a milled, spring-steel aftermarket extractor from Wisners, plus a set of hex-head replacement screws from Jim Byer.

This little project taught me a number of things. First of all, not all riflesmiths are created equal - even the custom specialists - and not all of them really know what they're doing.

Stock factory rifles might be chambered for dangerous game cartridges, but that doesn't necessarily make them functional dangerous game RIFLES. Almost all of them need some work before they're ready for Africa, and any extra effort you but into them will pay off. I consider all of the work we put into my .458 to have been essential.


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[ 06-20-2003, 18:32: Message edited by: allen day ]
 
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<allen day>
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Doug, I forgot to address this point, but most fliers are caused my uneven locking lug contact and/or uneven bedding that is causing the action to flex and disrupt the relationship of the locking lugs to the lug seats. Ill-fitting scope mounts can also cause an action to flex.

You can have the lugs lapped into even contact, and after this job is done, have your rifle re-bedded to likely solve this problem.

There is no magic load in the world that will make up for accuracy ills that are caused by basic mechanical problems with the rifle or scope.

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Thanks Allen,
I've done a little bedding to it and of course teh first thing I checked were the scope mounts and rings. I am beginning to think it is that little bit of upward pressure at the forend. I think I will relieve it and try it again. I bought a bunch of factory ammo like, Win. 300gr. Failsafes, 270 Failsafes, Fed, 300gr. Trophy bonded BC's, Fed. 300 gr. Sledgehammers, etc. and pretty much got the same results from all of them. two good shots and a flyer, sometimes 3inches or more out. Even my handloads did pretty much the same thing but they did seeem to group better. I finally settled on 71gr. of RL-15 behind the 300gr. Nosler. But i still get a little vertical stringing. Groups are around 1 3/4 inches. Think I'll remove that little bit of wood at the forend.
Doug
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Asheville, NC USA | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
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I have never had a Safari express magnum, the exception being an original pre 64 safari in .458 mag, that worked well out of the box. Same goes with CZ magnums. They are parts kits that are waiting to be finished.

Aleko
 
Posts: 1573 | Location: USA, most of the time  | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I agree with the above. Factory rifles are starting points, not finished tools. You buy, you tweak, you fiddle, you cuss, you cry and then, finally, it all comes together and you hunting. I've only had one rifle that was dynamite from delivery date on and that was my .375 Paul Jaeger "Alaskan" on a Whitworth Mk X. Hmmm, maybe I should just sell all the rest and fiddle less/hunt more. [Eek!]
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: Lakewood, CA. USA | Registered: 07 January 2001Reply With Quote
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As long as there are pre 64's and 98 Mausers out there I will never own a new Winchester...The quality control dept is not up to snuff and a lot of crap is leaving the factory..the bean counters strike again...
 
Posts: 42182 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I spend a lot of time at my gunsmith's shop as a friend. Some of the bedding he's shown me would make you cry. He likes the new classic M70s, but like some comments you've seen above, they need work. The goop used, and the goop is used deliberately with the comment that it is more accurate than glass, allows movement inconsistent with accuracy. Remove ALL of it, reglass with Brownell's Acra-Glas or other good product, and never look back. [Cool]
 
Posts: 3490 | Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Registered: 04 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Just in case anyone cares. I removed the wood from the barrel channel that was touching the barrel and it is essentially free floated from the front recoil lug out. Went to the range today and shot 7/8 inch groups with it and 71.5 grains of RL-15 behind the 300 gr. Nosler. It took about 6 to 7 shots for the action to settle back in the stock.
 
Posts: 229 | Location: Asheville, NC USA | Registered: 27 February 2002Reply With Quote
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The Classic Safari Express Model 70 is a terrible, low-quality rifle that usually looks as if it is bedded crookedly using hot glue. Mine has been sent back twice and is still not right. It is also the only game in town if you're left handed and want a quasi-CRF 375 caliber factory rifle for under $2000.

The hot glue is gone, and the rifle now sits on epoxy and aluminum.

I think I'm close to having the last of the bugs worked out, and after about a year and a half since the initial purchase, I think I will soon have a shootable 375.

For about $200 more than the price of this Winchester nightmare, I expect to have built a 458 Lott on the forthcoming Montana left-handed long action.

H. C.
 
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001Reply With Quote
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