Just read this on another forum. Wonder if Chas. Kokesh will be able to keep it going????

John: this issue is popping up all over the place now. That's really too bad if it goes belly up. Question's going to be brass availabilty. I hope somebody keeps at least that aspect going. jorge

That's hard to say or predict. I'd think they will have to streamline their operation and eliminate some items/models to cut costs. Guess I better buy up some 450 brass while it's still available!

I have been a Dakota dealer / owner for years. I do not stock any but do have my personal 416 Rem. Mag for show and tell.
I have been with Dakota since the mid '70's and have sold a number of them. The reason I don't stock them now is even in the days when I did I only sold one that was "off the shelf" or the plain standard rifle, all the rest had some added feature. You can not guess what the customer is going to want as an extra. Most likely it is fancy wood but what else?
I once built 5 alike but in different calibers. They had to be the same weight, lentgh etc. That was a pain to get done from 240 Wby to 375 H&H.
I have not sold (but have price out) a Dakota in the last couple of years. I think they just priced themselves out of most of the market. After awhile I find it hard to show someone true value or perceived value after a rifle gets over $2,000 unless it has extra special wood, engraving etc.
I have found it hard to sell a new one when you can buy a "pre owned" and maybe never used one on the aftermarket and then there are those dealer that will sell good at pennies over cost just so they can say they made a sale. In the beginning the price was pretty much protected by Don and Norma. It was not that they could tell you what to sell it for but they could really be slower than usual (they were never quick) in shipping your order. In the meantime you had to deal with a customer that was jumping up and down wanting his / her new toy.
Since the new owner took over I have never been contacted by him nor have I had much contact by anyone there with the exception of the ocassional call from Paulett Kok, the sales mgr.
I hope they survive as we don't need more failures in the firearms industry.

Does anyone have a link to a definitive story on this? A Yahoo search shows a local newpaper story but the newspaper's website no longer has it. Dakota does not have it on their website. On the Big Game board there is a story with a reference to a website but no luck finding the confirmation there.

I would just like to see it officially.

I understand it will be on The Outdoor Wire and The Shooting Wire tomorrow (July 11).

jim

quote:

Originally posted by HunterJim:
I understand it will be on The Outdoor Wire and The Shooting Wire tomorrow (July 11).

jim

Thank you -- I just found it strange that it is supposed to be on the web but the links I found were not valid.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/07/09/news/local/news03.txt

Thanks -- the Yahoo link is incorrect:

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/07/10/news/local/news03.txt [For clarification, this is the incorrect link I got searching earlier today.]

and I thought I looked everywhere on that site!

Edited to clarify about the bad link.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/07/09/news/local/news03.txt

The first few times I clicked on this link I got something about "trolly tokens"

Here's the article:

Sturgis firearms maker declares bankruptcy
By Dan Daly, Journal Staff Writer

STURGIS -- Dakota Arms, a privately held firearms manufacturer in Sturgis, has filed for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code, the company announced.

Dakota Arms manufactures rifles, shotguns and gun parts. The company moved to Sturgis from Minnesota in the mid-1980s. Through mergers and acquisitions, Dakota Arms has since brought gun maker Nesika Bay Precision, gun maker Miller Arms Co., and gun-case maker Dan Walter Cases to Sturgis.

In a news release, Dakota Arms officials said the company's board of directors decided that Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing would be in the best interest of Dakota Arms' customers, creditors and employees. The company will continue operating during the reorganization.

"We want to assure our customer, our dealers and our vendors that we are conducting business as usual. The sales team will continue to take orders and deposits. The manufacturing team will continue to produce the high-quality firearms that carry the Dakota name," Dakota Arms president Charlie Kokesh said. "We do not expect any disruption customer service or quality control as a result of this filing."

The company is negotiating special debtor-in-possession financing to supplement existing capital during the reorganization. Under federal bankruptcy laws, firms in Chapter 11 can obtain this financing, using corporate assets as collateral, as it goes through the process.

The company expects to emerge from bankruptcy in six to 12 months.

Customer deposits are safe, and Dakota Arms' vendors will continue to receive payment, Kokesh said. He also said none of the company's Sturgis workers will lose their jobs.

There was no information about how many people work for Dakota Arms, and in the past, Kokesh has declined to talk about the company's work force.

Dakota Arms is one of several guns-and-ammunition manufacturing firms in Sturgis. In a town with 7,000 residents, the guns and ammunition industry employs as many as 120 people.

Contact Dan Daly at 394-8421 or at dan.daly@rapidcityjournal.com

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
The first few times I clicked on this link I got something about "trolly tokens"

Yes, that's the bad link I got from Yahoo!News. "Deadwood Tinkers with Oft-Taken Trolley Tokens," or some similar story.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
Just read this on another forum. Wonder if Chas. Kokesh will be able to keep it going????

I too hope that Dakota survives. It's unlikely though that Charlie Kokesh will be having a long-term role there. Kokesh raised money from outside investors (www.technologyfunding.com) obstensibly to invest in high tech companies; instead a good part of that money ended up funding his safari and gun hobby. It's doubtful that Kokesh mentioned investing in a low-tech gun company when the prospectuses were written.

I certainly like Dakota's rifles and their array of proprietory calibers. One of their rifles has been on my wish list for quite some time.

But I gotta ask. How does a company that sells rifles for over 2K not make enough profit to keep out of chapter 11? I understand Volume issues. But if that was the downfall, why not simply cut margins and streamline production with a "Dakota Lite" offering? Weatherby did it with their Vanguard offering. Sako has Tikka. Were Dakota's higher-ups asleep?

Every business nowadays has to have a low margin high volume offering that just makes enough margin to pay the bills to survive. Show me an exception and you'll see a company that will soon be in trouble.

The Big Guy,

Dakota Light = Dakota Model 97

Full strength Dakota = Dakota Model 76

I'd be willing to bet it is the add on businesses that are the issue.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
Just read this on another forum. Wonder if Chas. Kokesh will be able to keep it going????

I too hope that Dakota survives. It's unlikely though that Charlie Kokesh will be having a long-term role there. Kokesh raised money from outside investors (www.technologyfunding.com) obstensibly to invest in high tech companies; instead a good part of that money ended up funding his safari and gun hobby. It's doubtful that Kokesh mentioned investing in a low-tech gun company when the prospectuses were written.

You hit the nail on the head, too much time in Africa and too little time taking care of business.

Didn't Butch Searcy move some of his operation up there?

Hope they cut some fat out of the operation and come back stronger.

Indeed some possibilities for streamlining and getting more realistic.

Does operating a safari booking agency really sell that many Dakota rifles?

Do you really have to restrict customers to only getting a synthetic stock as an add-on after the required fancy walnut "upgrades?" Even then, they charge twice the cost of having McMillan offer an "aftermarket."

They charge 100% over retail for Talley parts.

Nesika Bay, Miller single shots, "special-made" gun cases ... Italian made double rifles that start somewhere over $25,000 US, offerred, but any sold?

The amazing new 2.48" long .423 Dakota-Lapua with a Rigby/Lapua case head and less capacity than the .404 Jeffery, and way too short to fill the box length of the African 76. Selling like a house on fire.

Yuppie investors in high tech footing the bill for this "conglomerate?"

They have high-ended themselves into too many little niches.

Here's wishing Dakota brighter days through brighter ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Didn't Butch Searcy move some of his operation up there?

Rusty,
Searcy has some people assembling double rifles in Sturgis, and shipping the works in progress to Boron for final finishing. Nice folks. They are on Moose Drive or road about a mile from Dakota Arms, a stone's throw from the Burger King in Sturgis.

Jamison "Brass Werkes" is nextdoor to the building where Dakota stores all that fancy walnut.

United Air lines, North West, and Delta are all in Chapter 11 and they are still in business.

I do not expect this will put Dakota out of business but maybe in the black.

Andy

I notice in their press release that they are still 'taking deposits'. Would anybody care to ship a few thousand dollars off to a company under chapter 11 protection? I didn't think so. These guys are in real, probably terminal trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Richards:
...Would anybody care to ship a few thousand dollars off to a company under chapter 11 protection? I didn't think so...

I'm not sure I agree.

Take a look at the post above yours. It's true that the airlines are suffering financially, but have you seen the amount of people flying lately? More than ever. They can't scare them away.

Bankruptcy used to be a stigma, to be avoided at all costs, and used as a last ditch desperation move. In today's business world, it's nothing more than a strategy to cut labor costs, get out from under some debt, pay the head honchos some bonuses, and continue with business as usual.

I wish it wasn't so, but far too often, that's what happens, even when bankruptcy really isn't "needed". It's used as a convenient quick-fix.

Don't know the specifics at Dakota, and I hope they come out of it OK.

When you gotta fly, you gotta fly, but you don't have to buy a Dakota. Ive been in the gun business for many decades. Have seen dozens of distributors and manufacturers go chapter 11. I do not recall ever having seen one come back as originally organized. Creditors always take it on the chin when this happens. It would be very foolish to help finance these folks by sending them money, IMO.

In my past, I had the misfortune of being an employee of a couple of companies that went into Chapter 11 (oil in the early 80s). Legally speaking, a new creditor is far and away MORE secure than if they were when dealing with a company that is not in bankruptsy. The court, that will oversee the situation, will not allow any new creditor to be put into jeopardy. The funds will be there for the transaction, or the transaction will not be allowed. The previous creditors may be screwed and not receive full compensation but any new creditor is very secure.

You are correct there Mike. I had overlooked that little detail, and stand corrected. Still wouldnt send them money tho. Getting a gun, or a refund would likely still be at least a long and laborous process. Too many better places to spend it, like on a safari!

I agree with the poster about Charlie Kokesh being short term. Turnaround drills are not typically engineered by the team that got them there in the first place. My guess is they are choking on debt from acquisitions and need to get back to basics which means dump high paid overhead and spin off those addons. Don is probably looking down on this and throwing up.

I own several Dakota 76s all bought used and IMO, while they are nice rifles, the value was and is just not there. I'm sure there are many exceptions to this in the thousands of them that have been made, but most 700s outshoot them easily in my very limited experience.

I don't have a deposit with Dakota but if I did, I'd damn sure be trying to get it back. Good luck.

Another big ego learns the hard way that buying other companies makes for a bigger top line but doesn't create value for shareholders....just read about his lion Safari in F&S I think it was, surely that was paid for by the company as "official PR duty"...could it be that he knew the sh1t was about to hit the fan and decided to take one last boondoggle? If I were on the board I would hound him out of there pronto.

I never saw the fit between Dakota, Nesika and Miller. The guncase co. possibly, safari bookings possibly, but niche varmint rifle actions? Retro single shot rifles?

Anyway, here is a great oppy to buy all three, and my guess is the price will be less than the price originally paid for any one of them.

I hear that Montana Rifles is also on the block and in financial difficulty..these guys don't deliver either.

Since there is no Model 70 any longer, I think there is a chance of survival for either Montana or Dakota. Possibly actions only. Not sure about the double guns...don't know anyone that has bought one. That's a really suicidal business, unless your brand commands a huge premium (and Dakota is NOT Holland & Holland..., no matter how many Safaris Charlie takes).

Good points, Russ. All of them. Sure glad that I didn't put out the big bucks for a Dakota rifle. I was thinking about it at one time, but reason got the best of me on that one.

Isn't the booking agency "Adventures Unlimited" part of the Dakota group of companies?

No, Adventure Unlimited is independently owned. They have an affiliation only. Joint advertising things of nature.

" Sure glad that I didn't put out the big bucks for a Dakota rifle. I was thinking about it at one time, but reason got the best of me on that one.[/QUOTE]

Ditto,

Rich Elliott

From the Outdoor Wire


Dakota Arms

High-end firearms manufacturer Dakota Arms of Sturgis, South Dakota has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The petition for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection was filed July 6 with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the District of Minnesota.

It should be noted that a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is not tantamount to the closure and liquidation of the company. Rather, it is a request to the court that a company be granted what is, in effect, a breathing period from creditors so as to allow the company to reorganize itself for the intent of remaining in business. Several notable American companies including Chrysler Motors and others, have used Chapter 11 filings in order to allow the company to restructure debt and simultaneously continue operations under court supervision or detailed reorganization plans.

Dakota Arms manufactures a line of high-end, high-performance rifles, from single shot hunting rifles to the .338 Lapua Longbow tactical rifle, widely regarded as one of the world's best precision military weapons.

In a release, Dakota Arms described the filing as being "in the best long-term interests of Dakota Arms' customers, creditors and employees because it will allow the company to continue operating as it resolves its financial challenges. "

Dakota Arms' management team will remain in place to implement the plan of reorganization, and the company is negotiating debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing that would supplement existing capital. Company officials expect to emerge from bankruptcy within six to twelve months.

"We want to assure our customers, our dealers and our vendors that we are conducting business as usual. The sales team will continue to take orders and deposits. The manufacturing team will continue to produce the high-quality firearms that carry the Dakota name," says Dakota Arms president Charlie Kokesh. "We do not expect any disruption to customer service or quality control as a result of this filing."

"This is a responsible step that will ultimately strengthen Dakota Arms as we move forward," Kokesh said. "The rationale behind this filing is that Dakota Arms, one of America's leading manufacturers of quality firearms, will be able to continue to produce the world's most accurate and reliable rifles for hunters and sportsmen who appreciate the very best. In the meantime, there will be no loss of jobs in Sturgis, we will be honoring all customer deposits, and we will continue to make payments to all of our vendors, especially all of the businesses in the Black Hills."

According to Julie Anne Overton, representing the privately-held company's primary investor, difficulties with a creditor led to the filing decision.

The company's initial hearing before the District of Minnesota Banruptcy Court will be this Wednesday, July 12. At that time the Court will hear preliminary motions and take steps toward the appointment of a bankruptcy trustee.

Sometimes, depending on state law -- Ch. 11 is the best way out of a bad employment contract -- esp. any "best effort" ones -- tend to get very messy trying to get a jury to decide what "best effort" means -- Ch. 13 are the bad ones, at least, that's what's in my fuzzy memory from the old federal tax course.

The problem with bankruptcy is that a majority of the Chapter 11 cases that are filed end up becoming converted to Chapter 7 liquidations because they cannot present a viable plan of reorganization to the creditors and to the bankruptcy court that is approved by a majority of the creditors. Who knows what will happen in this case.

Poster Boy for

VRND

Vocactional Recreation Nondistinction Disorder



Hear no evil, see no evil (note muzzle brake and over two pounds of scope), but speaks some evil. See 2004 statement to investors on the Big Bores thread. It is amazing that good times have lasted this long for Charlie. Obviously there is much more to the story than a nervous bank in Sturgis.

I spoke to them at the SHOT show this year and they were snobs, i'm very friendly to people and can get just about anyone to smile or talk, I spoke to Mike Tyson 2 nights ago at the fights here in Vegas for 20 minutes he was a bit cold for the first 2 minutes as expected because he has so many people coming up to him.-yes he aint all there, back to my point i couldnt get through to these people they were to busy talking to each other, I noted the samething at SCI in Reno.

They build wotking guns and I have noticed a steady increase in price nickel and dimeing $4,000 guns into $8000 guns. Even the guys at the Holland & Holland booth are nicer or Purdy for that matter.

I knew Don and Norma and they ran a good business too bad those days age gone. All I hunt with are Dakota's.

HI Brother Ron hope you have been well.

Long lost Bro' Eric,
I noticed they have your picture on the Dakota site, trophy room photos.

Hope you are well.

I'm great please email me at:

diablogtr99@hotmail.com

thanks long lost brother Ron.

Done.

I'm glad I, and the rest of the guys that I went to the SHOT show with, weren't that Dakota was a bit gruff with. -- consequently all of our guys looking in that market went to Christensen, as will I when i decide to get a custom bolt action. Given their current problems, I'm glad none of the guys ended up going w. them.