Well folks this topic is one that we've seen and discussed before, but finally, at last, here is the talley for my trophies. Point of discussion will be is it financially advangeous to have your trophies done in africa or back home. Charges reflected in US Dollars

buffalo shoulder mount $850.00
impala shoulder mount $380.00
bushbuck fullmount $1,200.00
warthog shoulder mount $425.00
bushpig shoulder mount $425.00
buffalo scrotum dice cup $35.00
buffalo backskin leather black $300.00
impala backskin $30.00
warthog backskin leather brown $45.00
sub-total $3,690.00

export permits/ dhl charges $65.00
packaging $300.00
TOTAL CHARGES IN US DOLLARS $4,055.00
----------
Air Freight & export fees of raw trophies Bulawayo to Johannesburg: 213.00

Air Freight (FOB Atlanta) 322Kg actual weight 322Kg Chargeable Mass: 1014.30
Departure Fee: 101.43
Airline Security & Fuel
Surcharges 132.60
Documentation Fee 90.00
Cartage & Trucking 80.50
Eu Veterinary Inspection
(Paris stop) 55.00
Insurance (20K) 193.00
Facility Fee 111.59

Total: 1991.00

But there's more: I still have not paid the US Fish & Wildlife cut,& Custom Brokerage fees when I pick them up. I've been dealing with Kwiktan Taxidermy, Safari Air Cargo and Coppersmith Freight Forwarders. Very good service from all three, but a significant rise in freight charges since 2002!

I'd appreciate anyand all comments. jorge

jorge your prices are lower than mine. I'll wait for the pictures!..steve

Doesn't look like it's much cheaper to get it done in Africa to me.

Well, if one looks at the cost of the mounts here in the states, plus the freight charge difference between raw and finished trophies and freight charges from your taxidermist to your home, I think there might be a difference. I know that when I did the math in 2001, ( I paid half the cost of freight) I wound up saving close to 35%. So Those of you who've had raw tropies imported recently, how did the freight Charges compare? And for example what does an outfit here in the US charge for say, a full mount bushbuck? jorge

It has been my experience that the final cost is virtually the same either way for shoulder mounts.

For some reason, you get big savings for tanning, curios, and full-body work when done in Africa. If you want a Zebra rug, tanned backskin, etc, get it done in Africa. Same with making pillows, gun cases, etc.

quote:

for example what does an outfit here in the US charge for say, a full mount bushbuck? jorge

A helluva lot more than $1,200!

I had my raw stuff shipped a few months ago and when I add the dipping packing and shipping, including all the custom fees and stuff, it came to right at $2000. The shouler mount prices are right about what my taxidermst charges. However, the price for a full body mount is $1900 so you saved money there.

I don't have all the bills on ours yet, but from the quotes I got for air freight on a kudu shoulder mount, elephant tusks, waterbuck shoulder mount, flat zebra rug (no head) and 2 elephant feet I think you did well. (We ended up going sea and it is intransit now at $1,000 and change, Then there will be some fees in NY and freight onward. We have another set of tusks over there, but it we go again I think it will be no trophies home or raw stuff and very little of it.

AH: will you be picking them up at the port in NYC or are they going to be sent via road freight to you? I lookedinto oceanfreight, but there are other costs. Still cheaper but I didn't want to wait. If you go to the Coppersmith website, they ahve a good primer on the differences between the two. Granted they deal in air freight, but what they said WRT costs of ocean freight vs air made snese to me. jorge

Yep! Spend all that money on a great safari then nickel and dime the work!

Does that make sense?

Widowmaker: I don't understand your statement? can you expand on it? jorge

For a full mounted bushbuck, my taxidermist charges $2,395. Buffalo shoulder mount is $1,550 and a warthog shoulder mount is $765.

Quite apart from the money side of things, whether it is worth having taxidermy done abroad certainly also depends on the quality of the work done. If you know and trust a taxidermist abroad, I don't per se see anything wrong with having taxidermy done away from home. I have had quite a bit of taxidermy done is North America, and in general the quality has been very good.

Sadly, I have not had the same luck with taxidermy done in Africa. Of the three times I have had taxidermy done in Africa (I must be a slow learner), only once did I obtain an acceptable result (note: "acceptable", not "good"). The other times were poor to miserable. In that case, potential savings from having the job done away from home quickly fade.

Now, I know it is quite possible to have poor taxidermy done at home as well. But at least at home, you normally have the time to find out who does good taxidermy at acceptable prices. What often happens when you finish a hunt abroad - and Africa is certainly no exception in this respect - is that all of a sudden you are faced with having to make a choice of shops to do your work. Most commonly, there is not nearly the choice you have at home, and very often you end up going on your PH's recommendation, because you simply don't have the time to go visit the shop and see for yourself. However, a recommendation does not necessarily good taxidermy make...

Naturally, if you *know* of a shop in Africa, which does good work, and where you have confidence in your partner in this endeavour, then why not. But be aware of the pitfalls.

I know I have discussed this with Jorge before, and he does not necessarily agree, but I'll restate my case anyway. It has been documented (Hunting Report) how some taxidermists in South Africa pay the outfitter to have the work come their way. This part of the bill will eventually be footed by the customer. Does this always happen? Probably not. On the other hand, the documented cases are possibly the tip of the iceberg.

It is also well known, that some (most?) African taxidermists make use of unskilled labour for their work - education and employment being what it is in Africa. Price lists are pulled out of the drawer according to where the customer comes from, and prices vary wildly depending on whether the customer is local (Africa) or foreign (American or European, say). If the work is good, I don't have a problem with paying prices equivalent to those I'd pay at home. But if the work is shoddy (probably done by somebody poorly trained), then I do have a problem with paying 1st World prices for what is essentially unskilled labour getting paid 3rd World salaries.

There is no yes or no answer to the question of whether you should have taxidermy done abroad. Maybe it is possible to save $$$, but make sure you know what you get before you commit to a particular shop.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
AH: will you be picking them up at the port in NYC or are they going to be sent via road freight to you? I lookedinto oceanfreight, but there are other costs. Still cheaper but I didn't want to wait. If you go to the Coppersmith website, they ahve a good primer on the differences between the two. Granted they deal in air freight, but what they said WRT costs of ocean freight vs air made snese to me. jorge

Jorge,
It will be forwarded by truck, too far to drive for it. Too many vacation days wasted. In this case money is cheaper than the time.

Each hunter will have to decide for themselves what an acceptable level of "quality" is for their taxidermy. Some people are able to view a mount and notice when things are not right, others are not. Some people really do not care what the inside of the ears look like or if the nose anatomy or ear placement is correct. These folks will be able to save some money because highly detailed taxidermy and assembly line taxidermy are not the same thing.

Spend some time really looking at mounts and comparing them to each other and to live animals. Do they look painted? Are there cracks in the skin? are the wrinkles realistic? Are the horns set at the correct angle? Are the ears in the right location? Is the seam pulling apart? Is there suffficient detail in the nose, ears and eyes? Are the lips pulling out? Are hair slip areas very noticeable? Are there areas of "drumming" where the skin has pulled away from the form? Is there excess putty, glue or paint in the hair? etc..

A good taxidermist is one who knows what the animals are supposed to look like and can achieve the "look" of a live animal while using techniques, materials, and tanning that will insure longevity of the mount.

I am facing this tough decision, mount the trophy's in Africa or have them transported home for mounting. I have listend to pro's and con's of each, probably more confused now! It isn't just a cost issue, it is a hasle factor issue as well. If the PH says these folkks doe a good job and they will come and pick them up, ship them etc., I guess most would go that way, we have listend to the PH for weeks by that time.
Does anyone have any experience with Reiser Taxidermy in Windhoek Namibia? They did send me a price list and fact sheet.

drwes,
I looked at their work in their "showroom" and thought it was terrible. Take a look at what is being produced by "Nature's Design" and "Animal Artistry". Reiser's work won't even come close.

These are great posts folks and it's just the kind of good discourse I hoped for. MHO brings up some very valid points as does SBT. In my case, I was satisfied with the work (knowing full well that places like Animal Artistry or Jonas to name just two as there are many) do great work. I was just not financially prepared to pay close to three grand for a bushbuck mount. Also my PH didn't even know about Kwiktan, but I suspect he does have some connection with Taxidermy Enterprises in Bulawayo and I see nothing wrong with that.

Bottom line is guys, we all should do cost to benefit analysis on just about everything we do and taxidermy is no exception. keep them coming! jorge

I just received my invoice from the taxi. in RSA. The cost of shoulder/pdestal mounts in RSA are about the same as I have to pay here. The cost of shipping the finished mounts from RSA are about double. I figure it's pretty much a push & I know thhe quality of my taxidermist.

I was in South Africa in June and we dropped of 26 heads and skins from our group. I saw the work the taxidemist did and it was good. One of my buddies have several mounts done a a previous hunt with him and was quite happy. The price as far as mounts were about exactly what I would pay here in the US with my taxidermist.

Shipping costs would be a bit higher because of size and weight.

I am opting to have my work done here in US because I know exactly what I am getting and can stop by the shop and see the work. I am also clearing it myself and picking up directly at the airport.

I hope this thread continues to be informative. If I can add a suggestion, math is an exact science and so are actual costs. "About the same" is to me subjective. I really think SBT's and MHO's post were the most informative. At least to me anyway. So how about posting some exact figures to compare prices for both shoulder mounts and freight costs. When you add it all up (assuming one is happy with the quality and value) it can make a difference! jorge

Jorge, the shipping costs do not look terrible, based on what I paid to have RAW trophies shipped from Zim and Tanz earlier this year. NOT a direct comparison, but to give you an idea:

* Harare/JNB/JFK was $784 for a 114 volume metric crate weighing 71Kgs, plus other costs.
* From Tanz to NYC via BA was $2238 for (2) crates excluding broker fees

See my hunt reports for Zim & Masailand on the other forum for more info. As was stated, having curios done in SA is cheaper then in the States. If you plan to pick up the trophies at the broker, this is only possible if they are mounted as raw (unmounted) warthog and buffalo must go to an "approved facility" for treatment.

For comparison, here is what my taxidermist currently charges:
Buffalo Shoulder = $1350
Impala Shoulder = $575
Bushbuck Full = $1725 + custom base as desired
Warthog Shoulder = $685
Bushpig Shoulder = $625

Regards, Bill


Addressing the here-versus-there posts (not you specifically Jorge), I have done it BOTH WAYS. I had work done in SA twice (Taxidermy Africa) when shipping was less and the dollar strong. It was indeed "easy" - especially for the first batch which was shot in SA, but a real pain for the ones shot in Tanz although part of this was Licky's fault. The results and quality were quite good, but not spectacular I think due to the basic forms. I was fortunate in that the taxidermist paid me a visit when in the States to touch-up the mounts as the second batch had several trophies that had cracked and needed attention. Not sure why this happened, they seemed to survive the shipping okay. Since then, work has been done locally in the States. Critters are shipped back and everything is tanned here. I am convinced that the capes tanned by Carolina Fur look and feel much better then the ones done in SA.

The attention to detail and quality is also better then my SA mounts, and I am able to work with the taxidermist directly, stop by the shop and check the pose or habitat, etc. This is critical when doing "custom mounts" - like the cats or specialty game - but also nice as I can spread the cost of the mounting out over a period of time, and adjust mounts as time goes on (sometimes what might have been a shoulder mount turns into a skull mount, after some time to reflect). In this case, quality and CASH-FLOW are more important to me then a few hundred here and there. A $7-$10K bill all at once would drain the kitty, which is already ear-marked for the next trip.

If anybody wants to see some "ugly" African mounts, check out the dead-heads hanging on the wall at Cabela's in Hamburg PA. But as was stated above, most people do not "see" this (the lucky ones perhaps!), and of course as Cabela's acquires mounts from all over I am sure some were done in the States and some done in Africa. Which just perhaps proves that the quality of the taxidermist is perhaps the most important aspect to all this.

drwes- I too, at the urging of my outfitter, looked at Reiser Taxidermy's work and was not impressed. I also had the feeling that had I elected to use their service, my outfitter would of benefited financially. Can't prove that, just a feeling.

Jorge- I personally prefer to have the work done right here. I can stop by and check on how things are going, make changes and so on. It's always been my rule of thumb that what you save on taxidermy work in Africa is washed out by the extra freight charges. However, your numbers indicate otherwise.

John

Unlike two other posters, I thought Reiser did a pretty good job. Of course, we had only rugs, skins, and skulls done - no full or shoulder mounts. We reserved those for thes states, partially to keep tabs on the quality and partially to defray the costs a bit. I believe, after two trips to Africa, that most guys would be better served by skull mounts and hides than shoulder or full mounts. The obvious exceptions to this are exceptional specimens, and perhaps the smaller antelopes, who are not really done justice by skull mounts.

Damn you Jorge - I wasn't going to add my costs up, but a.) you got me curious and b.) I enjoy your posts, so I decided to bite the bullet and do a retrospective cost analysis to contribute.

I was in Zim in 04 and took 5 animals. My hunting partner took 4. We had raw hides/skulls, plus a couple backskins shipped from Bulawayo to San Francisco directly to New Method who our taxidermist uses for tanning (shipped via Cargo Air/Lily Milne). It was fine to ship consolidated as long as there was separate paperwork available for both of us. Total bill for everything, including the services of Hecny brokerage, was $2666. My buddy and I are close enough that we don't sweat nickels and dimes, and split it down the middle - $1333 each.

I had the following cost at the taxidermist:
1. Shipping from SFO to MPLS - $70
2. Eland shoulder mount - $995
3. Impala shoulder mount - $475
4. Kudu wall pedestal - $870
5. Zebra floor pedestal - $725
6. Tanning kudu and zebra backskins - $250
Total taxidermy bill - $3435

Grand total - my share of shipping and ending with 4 melons and 2 backskins = $4735

Hope this helps.

Jeff

PS - I am going to be very interested to see what shipping and taxidermy costs will be for this years RSA safari - for which I'll have raw hides/skulls of klippie, steenbuck, duiker, vaal, 2 springbuck, and a baboon shipped from J'berg to SFO.

I paid two grand for shipping two buffalo sculls and a sable cape and scull from Zim to Reno. So your shipping costs were very reasonable. The taxidermy is good if you like it and animal artistry did classic job on my sable but lost my buffalo sculls for two months and then made up a story to cover themselves. They finally came clean in the end but I guess you have to even keep close tabs on the best taxidermists.

Now, I'm not what you would call a "fine connoisseur" of mounted animals, but, let me show you a couple pics of animals which I consider are "unacceptable".
The following animals were completed by a taxi. in Namibia. I will not give names. They still have some of my animals, so........

Here's a hog...Do you think the nose holes look plugged up?



Here's an Oryx nose. Notice the brown spots? That is caused by using steel nails which rusted as the hide dried.



And finally, a nice Springbok with brown spots, caused by the same rusty nails.




You think maybe I got screwed? My cost for the Springbok mount was $310 US, plus freight. I don't even want to know what that was!
My point, there are good and bad taxis in Africa and also in USA. Buyer Beware!
I will use African taxis and Shipping brokers again, but not the ones I used last trip.
Once burnt, twice shy!

TJ,
Can you send me a PM as to the Taxi you used on these photos. I have 6 skins waiting to be picked up in Namibia
bobga

As I wade in here, let me preface it by saying I am a US based taxidermist. Ive been to Zim and SA and have toured the shops there, and been all over the US in shops that range from basements to Animal Artistry.

On AVERAGE you will get better work done here than you will over there. It boils down to the training of the staff and the availability of anatomically correct forms. To my knowledge, no one is using the high quality forms we use here over there. The reason is the cost shipping of the forms and delays in customs.

Secondly, tanning over there GENERALLY is not as good as we have here. The large tannery's we have here tend to do a better job and provide better stretch.

You have little if any recourse if something goes wrong with the mount if you have it done over there. Here you can work with the taxi to get the job done right and be compensated if it isnt.

Lastly, most people don't know GOOD work from BAD work. Ive seen people come in my shop or on this forum bragging about the awesome work done by someone. Sadly, they don't know what they are looking at. Truly good work jumps out at you, and mediocure work is simply that, a dead head.

Ive had guys argue with me that a deer done by "so and so" looks different than mine. And because he's a bigger shop, he must be right. I take out my reference pics, hang the two heads side by side and pop their bubble. Suddenly, Im remounting so and so's work.

The fact is that there is SOME good work being done over there. But its hit and miss and your outfitter prolly hasn't had the opportunity to view good versus bad on a large scale. Also, he is prolly getting some consideration from the taxi for the work he brings in. I do, I pay 10% back to outfitters that use me exclusively. Its called business, or a kick back, you pick. But my outfitters also will dump me quicker than a fat prom date if I screw up a clients mount cause then he loses them as a repeat client.

When you add up the risk of having work done over there, against the cost of a couple hundred dollars to have it done here, against the cost of a safari that cost you $10K, what makes the most sense?

Hugh

A note, your regular deer taxi. may be very good, but if he isn't used to doing African game it may fall short. Use a taxi. that has done African game. Even the tanning process is different, my understanding.
I found my invoice from RSA:
dip & ship = $200
Waterbuck shoulder = $620
Bushbuck pedestal = $520
airfreight = $1165
If my guy does the mounts here:
dip & ship = $200
Waterbuck = $650
Bushbuck ped. = $425
airfreight = $580
Again, I have seen the RSA guys work but know my guys work. If something goes wrong in transit, you're screwed. The corker is it would also cost me less because of the higher shipping costs. I know several guys that are happy w/ the work from SRA though. I am lucky and have a good taxi. within a 2hr drive so I'll keep using him until/if I find someone better.

My last trophies arrived on Saturday (it's now Thurs.) I've been biting nails all week waiting on the gov. types to clear them (customs notified me Mon. they were finished!). Just what kind of dieseases do they check animals for who've been dead more than a year? Geeeeez!
I'm not sure who does you're taxidermy in Africa or the states but for me the mounting is about half what I'd be charged here! Highveld did my work in RSA. BTW - it's been 15 months due to MY fault not the taxidermist's, but this is about the usual wait for a deer head around here.

Here are the breakdown of my taxidermy costs:

Blesbuck shoulder mount: $350
Gemsbuck shoulder mount: $520
Impala shoulder mount: $330
Kudu shoulder mount: $630
Red Hartebeest shoulder mount: $480
Springbuck shoulder mount: $325
Bushbuck wall pedestal: $365
Duiker wall pedestal: $330
Warthog wall pedestal: $385
Blue Wildebeest Euro mount: $205
Blue Wildebeest flat skin: $278
Zebra flat skin: $373
Kudu flatskin/pillows: $291
less "discount" ($505.70)
admin/crating $195
TOTAL: $4,551.30

JAS airfreight: $1,314.46

ABX Logistics: $472.44

Grand total: $6,338.20


Taxidermy was done by Greater Karoo Taxidermy in RSA in late 2004. While I am pleased with the work they did, I am still undecided as to where I will have my taxi work done on my upcoming safari...leaning towards Stateside.

In October 2005 I toured Highveld in RSA and they do very good work. We went by on the way to the airport, my PH was dropping another client's stuff. I did pick up one of their brochures and on a thread awhile back I showed a price comparison on shoulder mounts between them and my taxidermist, who does a large amount of African work. And as I remember the prices on a list of animals was within $100 of each other. But I am still one that likes to have my stuff mounted here in the States so I may keep track of the progress.

I stand corrected - I think. Just checked my invoice and did a quick search of some taxidermist sites and low and behold, the listed prices are about what I paid for similar sized animals. These prices were not for the actual "local" guys (no web sites) and seem at least slightly cheaper than what I've been quoted before. Have stateside prices dropped? Or is there something not being said in the "standard price list?"
Of course dip/ship is still an added cost although less than for full mounts. I'll have to do a bit more research on this one. Thanks for the eye opener!

TJ, too bad about those mounts. Looks like typical assembly line work to me. The rust stains are bad enough but I bet there is a depression in the skin where each one of those nails were too. With good hide paste you do not have to use all those pins and if you do use some they should be removed after a couple of days and the holes repaired. You should not be able to see any pin holes in my opinion. Mounts need to be "baby sitted" and constantly checked on as they are drying. Looks like they just pinned everything in place and set it aside until it was ready to be finished by the artist with the black paint!

It has taken a while but more and more hunters are starting to demand realism in their taxidermy work, and I think that's great. Hunts are short but those animals will be on your wall until you die and your kids sell them on Ebay.

I'm having some work being sent now. I do not have final/final in hand but is looking like the freight increases in the last 24 months or so have eliminated any advantage. Even the common carrier costs from Seattle are up significantly in this time period. At $75/barrel what should we expect? Regarding comments about quality- Have seen plenty of BAD work in the US. It's "Buyer Beware" whatever your choice.

quote:

Have stateside prices dropped? Or is there something not being said in the "standard price list?"
Of course dip/ship is still an added cost although less than for full mounts. I'll have to do a bit more research on this one. Thanks for the eye opener!

No, I think it's more the strengthening of the Rand to the dollar. When it was 11-1 in 98 the taxi. prices seemed much lower, at 5-1, it's actually looking cheaper here. Besides, here is "a job American's will do", might as well buy American.

Fred, excellent point seeing as how I contracted the price last year when the Rand was even stronger. However the prices I'm seeing on the net still seem low to what's being quoted in this area. For instance a friend is having a goose mounted for $500+ and deer heads go about the same. Maybe it's the (well known - locally at least) individual's skill/reputation driving the cost? Ran into this concerning gunsmith pricing a couple weeks ago in that catagory. Any way, I'll definately be "shopping" before committing next time.

Well, the final costs are all in and I needed to add an aditional 275 bucks to the totals above. Plus of course about another 100 bucks in personal expenses of traveling from Jacksonville to Atlanta for pickup. Incidentally, road transportation from Atlanta to my house would have been almost 900 bucks!

I hope this provides a good measuring stick for all of you that continue to weigh the goods and others of taxidermy in Africa vs here in the states. Just remember that air freight for raw skins and horns is about 70% of the freight quoted above. jorge