Does anyone have any experiance in hunting these countries?

Erik D.

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I hunted in the Sudan in 1979 and 1980....What do you want to know?????

Up & at 'Em - Pete

Hi Pete,

My interest in the mentioned countries is because on the 3rd of september, my wife and I will start our drive from Norway to South Africa. Our route is (at the moment since things change) Norway-Spain, Morocco, Mauritania, Mali, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, Benin, Burkina Faso, Niger, Chad, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Zambia, Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia and finally South Africa. Then we ship the car back and fly home(present plan). The trip will take about 13 months.

As we will be travelling in our Land Rover, taking a gun is naturally not an option. Nor is booking a hunt as it is impossable to know exactly when we will reach a certain place at a certain time.
BUT, we are open for potential possibilaties while we are underway. We would'nt mind going "out of the way" to an area if we knew there was any chance of meeting the right people. Since we most likely won't return to these northern counties in the near future, we might as well use the chances we get to do some hunting.
Since we will not be working for a year, we will be living 99% of the time in our rooftop tent and have a pretty strict budget. Thus we can't afford steep daily rates etc. My hope is that if we pass through the right area and meet the right people we might be able to make a deal. Stranger things have happened!

Where in Sudan did you hunt, and for what?
Southern Sudan is closed off of course, but the north is open for traveling. My intel says that the sudanese are some of the friendliest people in africa. Probably because of lack of turisim... What was your experiance?

Best regards,

Erik D.

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I've never been to Sudan, but it is widely reported that they are actively taking and selling slaves, if you call that friendly. Also, they are in fact in the middle of a decades long civil war and there is almost no governing authority except for AK47s outside of the cities. I think taking your wife there in a Land Rover,(great for someone else to use as his command vehicle) is one small step from suicide. I hope you and she fully understand what you are getting into. Good luck.

Gatogordo,

I appreciate your concern. Re. the slave trade and civil war; thats why southern Sudan is off limits. You must keep in mind though that "slaves" are found in more african countries than Sudan. In Mauritania for example, many families have "slaves". That is they are essentially owned by their "masters" and used as servants. They are in general however more a part of the family and are not beaten, or treated badly.
Officially though, slavery does not exist in either countries...
My wife and I have been planning this trip for the past 1 1/2 years. According to people that I've been in contact with, and that have themselves driven through Sudan recently, the sudanese are the most "traveller friendly" in Africa.
We are making a website that will be updated throughout our trip so that family, friends and sponsors can see how things are going. I'll post the address when it's up and running!
Until then, you might find this website interesting. http://www.africa-overland.net/ It has links to past and present trips like ours. Lots of good reading that often shows a different side of africa than seen while hunting. Traveling like this gives an opportunity to get off the beaten path and meet people and see places not possible otherwise.
Btw, hunting in Zimbabwe and Namibia + visiting the Okovango Delta is what got us started on the idea.

Erik D.

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I'll read the book or story, I just hope it is not in the obituary columns. Best wishes.

Hi Erik D:

All the comments you read on this topic is right down the line....A trip through Southern Sudan would be tatamount to suicide. In the two years I hunted in the Sudan it was south of the Sud Swamp (Maper/Rumbeck) all the way down to the Zaire border (Yambio/Nzara). Even at that time we had to stop at various roadblocks manned by boozed up soldiers and it was with lots of bakshisch and flattery that got us to where we wanted to go....Very unnerving!!!

In the years I hunted the game situation was spectacular...In Maper we shot 4 lion in 5 days, plus all kinds of typical Sudanese Plains Game (Nile Lechwe,Tiang, Roan, White Eared Kob, Bohor Reedbuck, Harnessed Bushbuck, etc. etc.)The Dinka natives in this area were an absolute delight. As primitive as you can ever imagine, but friendly and loved to be photographed, particularly with a polaroid. You had to see the expression on the Dinka's faces when they watched the picture develop.

After collecting the plains game we headed down to the rain forest area near Yambio. I shot a 75 lb elephant (1979), but missed out on one that would have gone over 100 lbs, but I had already shot the 75 pounder before the big one moved past me. Only one elephant allowed. It's been over 20 years but I still dream about the lost opportunity.

I did shoot a massive Bongo on the hunt in 1980 (no luck in 1979), a Lord Derby Eland, but no elephant.....The Arab poachers came down in 1980 and shot the bejeezus out of the jumbos. While up in the Lake Nyabor area I shot a 32 inch Nile Lechwe, a 28" Roan, and a White Eared Kob that would probably be no. 2 in the SCI book....It's registered in the Rowland Ward book in the no. 6 position.

Without wanting to belabor the security situation in Southern Sudan, avoid this area like the plague....There is a full scale war going on down there and it would be absolute foolishness to try to drive through this area.

Have a good trip and I hope my comments have been of some help.

Up & at e'm - Pete

Thanks for the info Pete. You must have had a great time back then. As I mentioned earlier, we will not be driving through the southern part as it is literally off limits. We'll enter Sudan from Chad via El Geneina. Later we will cross the border over to Ethiopia from Gedaref(Sudan) to Metema(Ethiopia). This is rather far north of the "red line".
My interst in the hunting situation is thus of course in the northern mountain regions near the Red Sea and the mountain region north of El Fasher where travel is permitted.

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C.H Stigands final battle was against the dinka`s a mighty warrior band.

ITO slavery, yes it exists there and as Erik said, is common in Mauritania and other west African/Sahel nations and a lot in Asia and in most of the developed world, including the EU and USA. Not just illegal immigrants but full blown traded slaves are very present apparently, in western nations, as I am sure we have all read at some point.

Sudan certainly peaks my interest and other than its issues, I hear from travellers that people are wonderful and very relzxed on the whole (obviously the west/darfur is off linmits and some other south/south west border areas..)

i am sure Erik can elaborate...

Oh yes, Peter Flack hunted Chad with Alain Lefol about 2 years ago I think...wrote up a piece in magnum and has a DVD on it...Seemed fascinating but he had some dodgy encounters with some nomads in their concession with the govt. guards.

quote:

All the comments you read on this topic is right down the line....A trip through Southern Sudan would be tatamount to suicide. In the two years I hunted in the Sudan it was south of the Sud Swamp (Maper/Rumbeck) all the way down to the Zaire border (Yambio/Nzara). Even at that time we had to stop at various roadblocks manned by boozed up soldiers and it was with lots of bakshisch and flattery that got us to where we wanted to go....Very unnerving!!!
In the years I hunted the game situation was spectacular...In Maper we shot 4 lion in 5 days, plus all kinds of typical Sudanese Plains Game (Nile Lechwe,Tiang, Roan, White Eared Kob, Bohor Reedbuck, Harnessed Bushbuck, etc. etc.)The Dinka natives in this area were an absolute delight. As primitive as you can ever imagine, but friendly and loved to be photographed, particularly with a polaroid. You had to see the expression on the Dinka's faces when they watched the picture develop.
After collecting the plains game we headed down to the rain forest area near Yambio. I shot a 75 lb elephant (1979), but missed out on one that would have gone over 100 lbs, but I had already shot the 75 pounder before the big one moved past me. Only one elephant allowed. It's been over 20 years but I still dream about the lost opportunity.
I did shoot a massive Bongo on the hunt in 1980 (no luck in 1979), a Lord Derby Eland, but no elephant.....The Arab poachers came down in 1980 and shot the bejeezus out of the jumbos. While up in the Lake Nyabor area I shot a 32 inch Nile Lechwe, a 28" Roan, and a White Eared Kob that would probably be no. 2 in the SCI book....It's registered in the Rowland Ward book in the no. 6 position.
Without wanting to belabor the security situation in Southern Sudan, avoid this area like the plague....There is a full scale war going on down there and it would be absolute foolishness to try to drive through this area.
Have a good trip and I hope my comments have been of some help.
Up & at e'm - Pete

Man I would love to hear more of your adventures!

Now that sounds like a great experience!! Do you have an idea as to how much the trip will cost?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kayaker:
ITO slavery, yes it exists there and as Erik said, is common in Mauritania and other west African/Sahel nations and a lot in Asia and in most of the developed world, including the EU and USA. Not just illegal immigrants but full blown traded slaves are very present apparently, in western nations, as I am sure we have all read at some point.

What? Kayaker, are you seriously suggesting that "full blown traded slaves" are "common" in Eurpoe and the US? I think you're missing some facts

On the other hand, I think a trip like Eric is suggesting would be the experience of a lifetime. Good luck!

Bwanna,

If you are talking about the overland trip fron North to South Africa he has already done it. Check out his website. It is really cool.

Kayaker, give us some examples of slaves in Europe and USA.

Obviously the vast majority of modern slavery is in SE Asia, followed by West and North Africa but of course there are slaves in Europe and the US...affluence will attract human trafficking. Think it would be tough to find sex slaves in the UK, Spain or Germany?

Heaps of illegal immigrants in the US are debt bonded slaves, not just illegals but trafficked and owned until they repay their crossing fees. They are owned by their creditors, whether they like it or not - thats slavery. Agricultural workers, sex workers, factory labor ect. Time magazine ran a piece couple of years ago where they estimated that large amounts of Florida's orange crop was picked by slaves, not just illegals, but fully owned slaves. A quick internet search will reveal some figues of over 10,000 trafficked slaves per year in the US.

Look, I am not saying the US and EU are the 'hotspots' at all, but it certainly exists there, as it does in probably any country with some form of economic promise to offer a person that is greater than they have, thats obvious. Do I think there are debt bonded or family sold African slaves in SA? Of course there are, it would be naive not to believe that, unfortunately. I am not saying its the fault of Americans or bashing you as a citzen or the US in anyway.

It was simply my intention to say that just because Sudan has it, doesn't mean its isolated in anyway to this phenomena due to chaotic politcs, even 'stable' countries have it .

My intention was to make a point. I am no expert in any way, shape or form, but this info is quite readily available from various news sources, even Fox.

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:

Heaps of illegal immigrants in the US are debt bonded slaves, not just illegals but trafficked and owned until they repay their crossing fees. They are owned by their creditors, whether they like it or not - thats slavery.

...speaking generally - the whole Western culture is based on slavery from the moment we invented taxes, not to mention banking system - it is just - hmmm - more cultural and after all not that bad or is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
On the other hand, I think a trip like Eric is suggesting would be the experience of a lifetime. Good luck!

Bwanna,

As Bulldog563 pointed out, it's already completed.

Since the dates we see on these posts don't mention the year, it's difficult to sometimes know that the post isn't from this May, but from May 2002!

And yes, it was an experiance of a lifetime. Alas, our website is changing webhosts right now, so I think it'll be down for some days.

quote:

Originally posted by Mississippian:
Now that sounds like a great experience!! Do you have an idea as to how much the trip will cost?

Mississippian,

Besides the base costs of the car, equipment etc, you can calculate on using around US$70 per day for 2 people. This is for food, fuel, occational cheap/sleazy hotels in major cities where sleeping in the tent isn't possible, visas, etc etc. All the costs of day to day living. The thing is that it is VERY cheap to live in north Africa, as most of the time is spent in areas where you sleep for free (out in the desert etc), and the food available is often not much more than the odd can of tuna, onions, and crackers. Although the ex-French countries have bagettes available in even the smallest villages. Over in east and southern Africa, costs go up due to using money on expensive national parks (often US$100 per person per day) and the fact that one is often forced to use designated "camping spots". Which of course cost money. And then there is so much more good food available in food stores from Kenya and south (compaired to buying whatever is available laying on the ground in village "markets" in north/west Africa), that one tends to end up spending more. All these exppenses evened out thru the year to around the US$70 mentioned. But I know of people who have used less, and others that used far more.

I can highly recommend such a trip, but bare in mind that it can be hard on a relationship (or make it even stronger such as ours became), and getting seriously sick is basically unavoidable. As is dealing with some pretty agressive people and potentially dangerous situations sometime, depending on where in Africa you are at the time. Despite these hardships, I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat, and my wife and I discuss doing so quite often. Although most likely a shorter/easier/safer route as we now have 2 small children.

Erik, I'm sure you have looked closely at the map. Southern Sudan at present is not subject to any hostilities with the Northern Sudanese army, the armistice is holding. However, banditry continues as the UN Peacekeeping forces stationed in a couple of places in the South ususally don't leave their barracks. Some of the roads have been demined (don't drive off the main track though and if you get to a wide area where the right of way is not obvious, follow some recent tracks.) But what concerns me is not the Southern route but your statement that in the "North" travel is not risky. You are proposing to drive through Western Darfour and Northern Darfour. The situation there changes from week to week and you might arrive at a good time, and you might not. Combat continues between Chadian troops and the SCUD. In fact the Chadians are mining their side of the border. Either way you can only get through during the dry season. It might in fact be safer to travel through southern CAR via Bangassou, Obo, and then Yambio to Juba in Southern Sudan. The Road from Yambio to Juba is slated to be demined and upgraded over the next year and a half under USAID funding. I can confirm the general friendliness of the Sudanese having travelled to Juba three times in the last ten months.

Here is yours truly in April outside of Juba with a small collection of local trash.




I strongly suggest you consider hunting with Toufic Hanna in Burkina Faso. I can send you his contacts if you are interested. Good Roan Antelope and he has lion licences every year as well. The cheapest lion hunt in Africa I believe.

Wink,

I am fully aware of what you write.

What needs to be noticed is what I wrote on my post right above yours:

quote:

Since the dates we see on these posts don't mention the year, it's difficult to sometimes know that the post isn't from this May, but from May 2002!

So my original posts (dated in May) are actually from several years ago, when the situation in Darfur, southern Sudan etc etc were very different from what they are today.

I wonder if Don can turn on an option to show which year posts are made, as this can often be very confusing when several year old posts are brought back to the top?

As for Toufic, I have his details from Jean Bernard whom I am in contact with often (in fact, JB will be visiting me tommorow). But I suggest we keep Toufic, and west Africa our little secret. Don't want to start raising the prices!

FWIW, my original veiw on how friendly the Sudanese are (in the north) was slightly modified after spending a month there, and getting a peak behind the scenes at how a lot of Sudanese veiw westerners. Their famous apparent friendliness is not always as genuine as they would like people to believe.

Please give a heartfelt hello to Jean Bernard. I hope his aching joints are gaining in flexibility and the tiredness is going away.

Mr. Rigby
This has been a good read but IMHO you would do the AR community a great courtesy by revealing when you're reviving a four year old post.

Well the clock was nearly three in the morning and fatigue started to appear,didnt notice it until to day, when the writings started, oops my mistake will either try notice it next time.

quote:

Originally posted by RayRay:
Mr. Rigby
This has been a good read but IMHO you would do the AR community a great courtesy by revealing when you're reviving a four year old post.

RayRay,

I'd generally agree with you here, but I don't see how anyone could know this thread was so old, since the year doesn't show when doing a search. And certainly not a relativly newcomer such as Mr. Rigby, since he wasn't around back then and thus wouldn't remember it like many of the "old guys" may.

I've pointed this out actually on the "suggestions" forum, and hopefully Saeed or Don can change this for the benefit of all.

Until very recently, I was in the same situation (cussing the lack of a year showing up in the posts). Then I discovered that you CAN display the year.

It's in the options. Just go to to the icons just above the posts themselves and click on 'Go', select 'Personal Zone' then 'Preferences'. The first section you see has a place to select the way the threads are shown. Just select the option the way you want it. There is one that allows the date to be shown as 'mm/dd/yy'. That's all there is to it !

Don, if you see this, it may be a good idea to set this as the default option.

As for hunting Sudan, member MAH will be venturing there, according to this post: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8321043/m/775105915

quote:

Originally posted by PostDriver:
Until very recently, I was in the same situation (cussing the lack of a year showing up in the posts). Then I discovered that you CAN display the year.

It's in the options. Just go to to the icons just above the posts themselves and click on 'Go', select 'Personal Zone' then 'Preferences'. The first section you see has a place to select the way the threads are shown. Just select the option the way you want it. There is one that allows the date to be shown as 'mm/dd/yy'. That's all there is to it !

Don, if you see this, it may be a good idea to set this as the default option.

Damn computer!

what have i done!!!!!!!!!

Feels like i gave startled a hornets nest,like i discovered a burglary at Watergate and called the Police!