quote:

for one don't believe in all that 'give them a chance to decide how they die' bollocks!

Too true Steve.

I had a guy from surefire convince me to buy the LED bulb for my sure fire but found that it gave too much of a white light which did not reflect the true colors, I prefer a normal bulb on my bright torch, a head light (Not too bright) is great to illuminate back and front sights.

I think having a self lighted fore sight might draw your focus too much???? It would have to be quite dim

Before they days of maglites and surefire, I knew PHs that darkened one side of a pressure lamp and used that, and an ivory bead was new technology, how things change.

We're getting old mate..... but it beats the shit out of the alternative huh!

I have also a red optic fiber front sight on my 500 Jeff.

While bow hunting in bad light conditions I use a small rheostat light to illuminate the optic fiber sight pins.

If you do not set the sight light to the as dim as possible the optic fiber get so bright that you can not see anything past your front sight.

Steve your light system sounds a lot like what I have in mind for my 500 Jeff...

quote:

I think having a self lighted fore sight might draw your focus too much???? It would have to be quite dim[quote]
[QUOTE]
If you do not set the sight light to the as dim as possible the optic fiber get so bright that you can not see anything past your front sight

Thats what I ment to say!

i always found that as long as the animal was close enough for the spotlight to blind him i could shoot but seriously on my old merkel i mounted 2 fiber optic elements. a green one on the front sight and a single orange on in the bottom of the V in the rear. all i had to do was to put the big green dot on top of the big orange dot and jerk the trigger hard as i could

Aaron,

Yes, there are two, possibly three, good sources for tritium rifle sight sets: Meprolight, Ameriglo, and maybe New England Custom Guns. Go to this link to read Part 1 of 3 in-depth articles I wrote about dangerous game rifle design for the 21st Century. Part 1 is about barrels and iron sights.

http://www.africanxmag.com/DGR1.htm

I have a Remington Safari KS that I put a set of Meprolights on, and they fit with no modifications to the rifle. Professional Hunters from Australia to Africa who have handled the rifle wanted to buy it off me, but I told them to spend $100 with Meprolight and get their own. The tritium sights are made for Remington shotguns, but will fit the front and rear sight bases of the rifle with little to no filing. Here is the pertinent excerpt from the article that covers all the issues. There are hot links to the manufacturers in the sidebar.

Hunters seldom see rifles with tritium night sights. Most of the rifles I have seen at the Custom Gun Guild show in Reno, Nevada rarely feature these innovations, although I’ve found only a few with a tritium front sight. This is a serious omission in my experience.

On my first big bore rifle the first thing I did was to order some night sights that were marketed for Remington combat shotguns. They are imported from Israel and are sold in the States as Meprolight for about $100. These have the usual front sight insert as well as a two dot insert on the rear sight island. I ordered this setup in the days before everyone had the Internet, and there weren’t any forums and few dedicated safari magazines, so you were pretty much on your own as to what you thought was needed on a DGR.

These Meprolight sights were exactly like the regular iron sights that came standard on the rifle and I installed them in 5 minutes or less. With detachable Warne or Talley rings, I could remove the scope and have an excellent weapon for around the camp at night. When professional hunters either from Australia to Africa would shoot my rifle at night, they would comment about how much they loved those sights and how every rifle should have tritium iron sights installed out of the box. They are so unobtrusive that even most diehard traditionalist would not object. They are hardly noticeable during the day and are priceless when there are lions and hyenas sulking around outside your tent or you find yourself walking up a wounded leopard. The only drawback is that they burn out after 8 or 10 years and must be replaced.

Aaron,

Contrary to some comments about tritium sights in daylight, they are bright white and show up vividly in daylight. There are many scenarios where it would be good to be able to see your sights in pitch black darkness that have nothing to do with hunting.

Additionally, no complicated lighting systems are required. Fiber optics are better that plain black iron sights, but have no advantage in the absence of light.

Tritium is the way forward for an advanced design DGR.

~Alan

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Judging by the amount of light I get from my tritium watch I wonder if a tritium element would give enough light to illuminate the foresight sufficiently. I'd have thought a small LED would do a better job if there was a way to supply it....... both would be worth a try though.

First off, I LOVE the idea of a tritium front bead. And I do have Tritium's on my Sig 226 bed-side pistol.

The simple truth is that unless it's completely black in the room - I mean it's the proverbial Pitch Black, you really can't see the Tritium dots. They're just too dim.

In anything other than Pitch Black, a red or green fiber optic is a better choice.

Personal experience doing night shoots (IDPA style) with a flashlight has shown me that a flashlight on a pistol (rail mount) is a GREAT option - it allows you to sillouhette the sights in the light.

I like Shakari's idea of taping a light to the barrel. Even better would be a tactical rail on the bottom of the rifle with a 2x CR123 Surefire weaponlight mounted with 130+ lumens and a laser bead.

But that would be an ugly sin.

The other problem with tritium is that after the first shot, muzzle blast from a .375+ would likely knock night vision down enough that one couldn't see the tritium dot anyway. Aim for the hotspot on the flashlight beam might be the better option.

Just random thoughts. The idea of going after a wounded critter at night with a flashlight taped to the rifle? Ummm...I might take a pass on that!

Mate, from my experience, when you go after a wounded cat at night, you only get time for one shot anyway, so you either get it right with that first shot or you're buggered.

My set up of lights and the fibre optic foresight works a treat for me and unless I can find something better, I'll stick with it just as it is.

I do wonder if a tritium bead set into or underneath the fibre optic foresight might be worth experimenting with though.

Shakari,

I think that is worth expermenting with. even if you had to put a few tritium vials under the fiber optic sight... very interesting idea to me. It wouldn't take much...

Aaron

Aaron,

I reckon it'd work but I'd guess the biggest problem might be sourcing the tritium vials.... esp from here in Africa.

Take a look at and talk with a rep or someone from Trijicon about tritium and fiber optics. They are really experts on both subjects and are currently leading the field for these products in the military and commercial applications.

As far as fiber optics the color GREEN is far superior and most easily seen than any other in the spectrum. Have a look through their hunting scopes and the difference jumps out at you. They make red, amber and green and one look tells you GREEN is the one you want. The tritium on the post tip of their hunting scope is the cats meow, literally for the cats after dark. Took my Leopard with this combination in Moz and external light off, tritium under the moonlight was great, external light on, the fiber optic was awesome. Absolutelly the best of both Worlds. And no batteries to fail you when it comes to crunch time.

I don't know that Trijicon can/will make a tritium bead for a front sight but looking through/at their current scope will answer all your questions regarding the fiber optic/tritium issue.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Tritium-
Bart or Merkava sell tritium tubes (no housing) in small quantity by mail.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/...wthread.php?t=222461
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/...1c87292e9a1&t=170374

Unfortunately, observations concerning tritium sights being too dim to be visible in anything other than pitch black darkness, highlight the only problem with this technology.

If your tritium sight is dim or can only be seen in pitch black darkness, it it losing its charge (or reached the end of it's 'half life') and needs to be replaced immediately. Tritium only has an 8-10 year life expectancy.

The original sights I put on the Custom KS are totally burnt out now. But, the good news is that for $100 I am back in business for another 8-10 years.

quote:

Originally posted by 86thecat:
Tritium-
Bart or Merkava sell tritium tubes (no housing) in small quantity by mail.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/...wthread.php?t=222461
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/...1c87292e9a1&t=170374

Wow, big thanks to '86thecat' for the links to some excellent sources. Available in a multitude of colors and sizes... the price of a bare tritium capsule is relatively cheap.

I'll have to measure the tritium inserts on my sights to get an idea about the size that I need, but it appears at first glance almost any iron sight could be retrofitted with these things.

Any actual gunsmiths out there that could comment on the available sizes in millimeters at the links above, and whether or not they could be retrofitted to commonly found iron sights, such as CZ, Model 70, NECG, etc.?

A smart DGR builder could seize on this concept to set themselves apart from their competitors.

I believe the tritium tube in most commercial sights is sealed inside a metal tube with a quartz lens. Might not be possible to replace the tritium element in those. The bare tubes will work in an application similar to a Yugo AK, where there is a hole drilled perpendicular to the line of sight to hold the tube then a "port" drilled ninety degrees to that for viewing the tritium. Wondered if that type of application would work with one of the flip up large front "night" beads. The raw tubes may also be useful recessed below a fiber optic bead.

Regarding the "fiber optic" sights, my limited experience with them has been quite unfavorable. I have a strong correction for nearsightedness, and the chromatic aberration I get is quite bad. On my son's air rifle it is enough to throw the zero off significantly. His air rifle has green dots in the rear and a red dot in front--about the worst possible combination for my vision. If you wear strong glasses, at least be sure the front and rear sights are of the same color.