quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
This would be a perfect time IMO for SCI to make a statement about trophy hunting as opposed to poaching which is what this incident with Cecil was. People that aren't rabid anti hunters are paying attention to this issue and this is an opportunity lost if SCI does nothing other than cover their ass.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
This would be a perfect time IMO for SCI to make a statement about trophy hunting as opposed to poaching which is what this incident with Cecil was. People that aren't rabid anti hunters are paying attention to this issue and this is an opportunity lost if SCI does nothing other than cover their ass.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Is Palmer guilty or innocent. I don't know. Time will tell.

If I was a member of an organization like SCI, I would hope they would stand behind me until the facts were in. If I am guilty, throw the book at me. In the meantime, have some backbone and reserve judgment until the facts come in.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
I wonder if SCI shares any responsibility in this whole thing. Was the "hunter" trying for his next Pinnacle of Achievement?
Maybe they need to start a new category for who has the most wildlife law violations.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
This would be a perfect time IMO for SCI to make a statement about trophy hunting as opposed to poaching which is what this incident with Cecil was. People that aren't rabid anti hunters are paying attention to this issue and this is an opportunity lost if SCI does nothing other than cover their ass.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Mark,

That is a great idea. I sent a letter to a member of the SCI executive committee earlier this morning making the following points:

* Very disappointed in SCI's response to date.
* This incident highlights for me everything that is wrong with SCI.
* First, we have a hunter that appears to be on a quest for the next bigger and better trophy with a number of trophy registrations already in SCI's record books (and why is he even a member after a felony conviction for wildlife law violations several years ago).
* Second, in the aftermath of the incident SCI does nothing to either defend or help its members other than Palmer.
* Why has SCI not issued a statement in support of sport hunting and the conservation and other benefits associated with sport hunting?
* Why has SCI not made itself available to and solicited slots with the various media outlets to tell the positive side of trophy hunting?
* Why has SCI not sent its members a fact sheet or information sheet to use in responding to the numerous inquiries/attacks we are all getting about sport hunting?
* Why is SCI using its Facebook page to post about insect protection for hunters and miniature rifles while this wildfire rages all around us?
* Why is SCI sending out award nomination emails the same week this debacle is unfolding?
* During a watershed event for hunting, the organization that is First for Hunters, SCI, has been missing in action.
* I am not talking about engaging on Palmer and the specifics around the lion incident, if SCI wants to let the situation with Palmer and the specifics around the lion incident play out over time so be it, but why are they not engaging on the much broader debate that is taking place over trophy hunting generally.
* SCI has failed in its crisis management efforts over this incident in my view.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Is Palmer guilty or innocent. I don't know. Time will tell.

If I was a member of an organization like SCI, I would hope they would stand behind me until the facts were in. If I am guilty, throw the book at me. In the meantime, have some backbone and reserve judgment until the facts come in.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Is Palmer guilty or innocent. I don't know. Time will tell.

If I was a member of an organization like SCI, I would hope they would stand behind me until the facts were in. If I am guilty, throw the book at me. In the meantime, have some backbone and reserve judgment until the facts come in.

Absolutely. AFAICT the trail by internet may have convicted Palmer, but whether the hunt was illegal and, most importantly, did he know it was illegal are not at all clear to me at this time. As many of you know, things are not always as they seem in Zimbabwe.

I'm not defending him but he's a fellow hunter who has been thrown under the bus because he killed a lion as far as I can tell at this point. If he is guilty and had fore knowledge then he deserves it, if not, then we're eating our own and should be ashamed of ourselves. Really, how many hunters in here have stalked the boundaries of Nat. Parks, hoping one of the larger animals would cross the line?

AFA DSC's response, all I've seen is some boilerplate which basically denounced poaching, which makes sense in relation to the fire storm that has sprung up.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
I thought he was Innocent until proven guilty?

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I used to really enjoy going to the SCI convention every year and also the local Wisconsin banquets. But the last few years I find that I enjoy DSC much more. I think I'll focus on them and see where they go as an organization. I don't even look at my SCI magazine anymore. I'm so sick of awards and pinnecles of achievement and seeing everyone standing there with their plaques . It makes me realize hunters at least some have lost their way. It was supposed to be about wildlife and protecting it. Now it's about inches and showing off

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I also have written SCI and am disgusted with their silence on this matter. The real issue here is the anti- hunting groups making political hay out of this fiasco. SCI, DSC And NRA need to media blast this for what it really is. Trial by Internet,by twinky gobbling, Animal planet watching, uneducated dummies who have tried this guy and found him guilty as well as threatened his life. Given the NSAs internet surveillance capabilies, let's demand these jokers be arrested before they commit a crime! The SCI, DSC and NRA should use this "opportunity" to point out that the real reasons Lions are endangered is because of rampant African native poaching(every goat herder, rancher etc. in Zim). These people kill Lions at a rate many times more than the Trophy hunters who's money is intended to support game management. How about a little "meet the press " discussion about bribery and corruption in Zim? Maybe a little history lesson for the great unwashed about how black "landowners" got their land in Zim by stealing it from the white farmers? Let's not forget Uncle Bobs human rights atrocities! This is the time to go on the offensive after the anti hunters, expose their agenda and tell our story! Remember in any crisis a good offense is way better than a gutless defense! We need to remind people that in this country a man is not considered guilty until proven guilty in a court of law. Of course Law in Zim isn't quite what we would expect in the US. As Joesph Goebbels once said, if you tell a big enough lie often enough 50% of the people will believe it. Let's expose their strategy for what it really is! I don't know if the guy is guilty or innocent let the facts decide the outcome. I'd still use this to our advantage to discredit the Antis! These opportunities don't come around that often!

quote:

Apparently pressing the "like" button or making shitty comments on Facebook now passes for activism in our world.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Candidly, I could care less what they have to say good or bad regarding Palmer, let them wait until 2019 to opine on his plight after a trial and all appeals have been taken . . . but the trial of hunting and trophy hunting in particular in the court of public opinion is well underway and for SCI and DSC to be saying and doing nothing in the public debate on the sport is disheartening. This is not just about Palmer and a lion in Zimbabwe, the debate and implications go far beyond that issue.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:
Is Palmer guilty or innocent. I don't know. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
This whole incident is very fluid, with the "facts" changing daily. I will gladly stand corrected if what I say here proves to be in error. But:
Walter Palmer's SCI membership was suspended on an emergency basis pending investigation, not revoked. Much like an administrative leave for govt. or law enforcement personnel under investigation.
Palmer reportedly took a lion in the past, therefore he did not need this one to qualify for another level of award.
An AR poster stated that Palmer had a felony conviction for poaching a bear in his home state. Not likely a felony, since a felony would have cost him his right to own a firearm, and likely his professional license as well.
Both SCI and NRA have fact sheets available that articulate the benefits of gun ownership and hunting. If an individual does not know the facts, or does not have the information in e or hard copy, it is the individual's fault, not the organization's.
Whenever there is an event like Sandy Hook or Aurora, the NRA does not immediately respond. This is to respect the victims and their families, and to allow time to get the facts of the case. "No comment at this time." is most often the correct initial response.
Regardless of the fact that some members here despise SCI, and agree with the Paul Watson diatribe, the article is chock full of errors, not the least of which is that he can't even get SCI's name correct. Watson's credibility can, and should be, impeached and crippled whenever possible.
I have stated this before: expressing an opinion about anything on AR does nothing to further our cause as hunters. Traditional media, social media, and participation within the local community provides a real face on what is demonized as the "gun lobby," "trophy hunters", etc., etc.
It would be foolish to criticize DSC for much of anything. Palmer is allegedly not a member, so little more could be done beyond the issuance of a statement that DSC condones only legal and ethical hunting, and will not comment until the facts are all in.
I personally would like to see this forum require a login to read our postings as well as to post. I believe it would cut down on our opponents ability to gather ammunition to use against us, and would allow abusers to be removed.
As long as I feel that SCI does more good than harm, I will continue to be a member. It is better to work for change within an organization than from the outside.