I am preparing to write a response to my friends and family that are caught up in the hysteria about Cecil, but first I need a little information. Can someone tell me where to find, or give me the answers to a few questions.
How many country's have legal lion hunting. What would the approximate quota be.What percentage of those quota are filled. How many lion are poached each year (best estimate of course) What parts of the lion and how they are used for illegal sale. As well as any other pertinent info I might add.
thank you for any replies

OK, so with my limited time on the internet I can see there were six hundred and some odd export permits for 2014. Can anyone tell me if that includes captive bred lion hunts as well? (thank you Andrew)

You may find some answers here in the USF&W proposal.

Looks like maybe 3/4 of the exports are from South African captive bred Lion.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
OK, so with my limited time on the internet I can see there were six hundred and some odd export permits for 2014. Can anyone tell me if that includes canned hunts as well?

Can I please request you to not use any anti hunters jargon in your response to family and friends. It sure does not do the hunters' cause any good if a hunter like you use a phrase like "canned hunting". Any animal that is killed in a "Put 'n Take" activity can at best be "shot". A vast majority of Put 'n Take lions that are shot under perfectly legal conditions has been given a special, and generally accepted, name of " a captive bred and released lion ".

In my opinion an overwhelming majority of lion export licences issued in South Africa is for such captive bred and released lion that were perfectly legally shot. Again, in my opinion, there are a few captive bred and released lion that are actually legally hunted, and for which export permits are also issued. A third opinion that I hold in this regard is that there are even a few essentially free ranging lion that were not caught and transported to a place where they are killed, either by legal hunting or by legal but unethical shooting, for which export licenses are issued.

Unless there is some blatant dishonesty - like big-time bribery - an export permit will never be issued for any lion parts that were obtained by poaching or even illegal hunting. All of the South African Provincial Nature Conservation Authorities have very strict rules to adhere to before issuing any lion export permits, which are all aimed at ensuring that only legally killed lions are ever exported.

But the main point that I really wish to bring to your attention is that the use of the two consecutive words "canned hunting" should NEVER be used by a hunter, and particularly not in any attempt to "defend" hunting or education others, be they hunters or anti-hunters or fence sitters or just undecided.

If shooting a captive bred and released lion in accordance with The South African laws is "not your cup of tea" [it is not mine either], then by all means run it down, but do NOT refer to it as "canned" and then put the word "hunting" directly after the "canned".

In good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
I am preparing to write a response to my friends and family that are caught up in the hysteria about Cecil, but first I need a little information. Can someone tell me where to find, or give me the answers to a few questions.
How many country's have legal lion hunting. What would the approximate quota be.What percentage of those quota are filled. How many lion are poached each year (best estimate of course) What parts of the lion and how they are used for illegal sale. As well as any other pertinent info I might add.
thank you for any replies

You could, as so many have done before, present the facts and figures in defense of hunting or lion hunting, which would require, if you want to do it right, a considerable amount of time, effort and research ...

... or ...

... you could take another tack, one which I use whenever the subject of hunting comes up, which is ...

I tell them that the great threat to wildlife is the loss of global biodiversity in general, which threatens all life on earth, including humankind - and that virtually every human activity contributes to that loss.

(I use cutting edge science to back that statement up, based on Life-Cycle-Assessment (LCA) methodology.)

So when they go to the movies, or play golf, or buy organic vegetables, (or whatever), they are contributing to a series of actions which eventually leads to someone, somewhere, chopping down trees and slaughtering animals (i.e.: a loss of global biodiversity) .... ...

... and there are virtually no exceptions to that rule ...

... except, of course, for those human activities which restore habitat, restore ecosystems, restore ecosystem-services ... and so lead, ultimately, to an overall increase in global biodiversity ...

... and virtually the only human activity which does that on a consistent and sustainable basis is hunting.

Then I walk away and get back to what I was doing beforehand.

Anyway, that's what I do.

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I also have been taking a different approach.

I explain to them how lion hunting in Zimbabwe works."I use the area I went to as an example." I explain that the national park is surrounded by hunting blocks. These blocks act as a buffer between dangerous animals and people. I explain that people and the big animals cannot live together. Without this buffer the lions elephants and other big animals will destroy crops and livestock. The people will not stand for it. Instead of one dead lion the whole pride will be poisoned.

I generally try to put in the discussion that the average person in Zim had never even heard of Cecil before all this started. I also put in about habitat loss being the number one enemy.

If the discussion goes any farther I urge them to do there own research on two things.

The decline of Kenyas wild life since they banned hunting.

The decline of tigers across there range since hunting was banned.

You might also want to point out that in most areas where there are lion, more are killed by the locals via poisoning or poaching due to lion-cattle encounters. In some areas, three times more lion are killed by locals than foreign "hunters". In fact, lion, much like leopard and cheetah, are consider pests.

If you ban hunting, the killing will not stop; you only stop the revenue stream.

Thank you so far, my motive is not to convince any one to like hunting, but to spend their energy and resources against poaching,loss of habitat and encroachment if they are truly concerned about the species.

eny,
You have a very valid point. If all these so called conservation groups were serious about protecting wildlife they would use there resources to buy land and protect the habitat.

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
Thank you so far, my motive is not to convince any one to like hunting, but to spend their energy and resources against poaching, loss of habitat and encroachment if they are truly concerned about the species.

Close, but you have to take it a step further. They have to stop, or at least justify in their own minds, "spending their energy and resources" on things and activities which destroy life.

Don't allow yourself to be forced into defending hunting; force them defend golf - or whatever it is they spend their time, (energy and resources) on.

Turn it around on them.

Think like an environmentalist ...

... and stop thinking like a hunter.

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I will not name the country or the organization however one well meaning rescue group started capturing problem cats and sticking them on their 60,000 acre habitat. After a few years and a few hundred or so cats later they could not support any more and were starting to lose them to territorial fights. So then they just decided to capture the cats but release them along the road back to their habitat - I$hityounot.

After complaints they stopped the capture altogether and have simply resorted to telling the locals to please don't shoot/poison the cats and why don't you just corral your cattle at night. That hasn't exactly taken off like wildfire either. So the locals just continue to shoot/poison the cats.

In short, they have spent (and continue to) an inordinate amount of grant and benefactor monies on a feel good operation that has done nothing for protecting cats. But they have really beautiful brochures and everything.

Truth is there is relatively little lion hunting these days outside of South Africa. That's because there aren't many lions outside of the National Parks. And that in turn is because lions and cattle ranchers don't get along. Heck, Lions and game farmers don't get along either. They eat too much game.

So RSA: private ranch lion hunting only, mostly bred, some crossing from natl parks
Zim: limited quota mostly on govt land, which almost by definition is around the national parks; plus Bubye where there are too many. Lion population has rebounded.
Tanzania: limited quota in the govt concessions
Botswana: closed but plenty of lions, ask any game farmer. Officials and farmers kill plenty, as with leopards, as PAC.
Namibia: once in a blue moon, a PAC situation, lions getting out of Etosha or Chobe.
Mozambique: limited quota
Cameroon: very limited quota
Burkina: very limited quota
Zambia: closed
Kenya: closed
Uganda:?
Angola:?


The whole Lion hunting "fuss" is a canard Or at best a wedge issue. The issue is HABITAT not HUNTING. At least with regard to lions.

Elephant and Rhino ... again HABITAT but ever more POACHING.