The 375 for elephant thread got me thinking about my one and only elephant (cow) hunt in 2005.

I missed the brain on a close (9 paces) head shot. I was standing on top of a termite mound and surprised the cow who turned her head suddenly as I pressed the trigger. I was also handicapped by use of a 3 X scope which at 9 paces reduced my "situational awareness." I did not see her shift her weight from one foot to the other, and begin to turn. Lesson learned, I now have a big peep sight on the 450.

(Poor workman who blames his tools).

Despite my poor shot which ended up in her off side molar, this large cow turned around 180 degrees and presented me with her left rear hip bone which I shot. This spun her back 90 degrees to me and I was now looking broad side. I shot her in the neck and reloaded one. Then her mama chased me off the termite mound. My PH covered me and even though I was older by 15-20 years than anyone else in the party, passed them all, thank you very much!

I honestly felt, perhaps foolishly, that as long as I could shoot the cow, that she would not get me. The 450 just rocked her world w each shot.

My question to the group is: would a 375 have stunned her as much?

Andy

quote:

My question to the group is: would a 375 have stunned her as much?

Can't see how. I used to own a .450 Dakota, I shot 450gr TSXs @ 2,500fps and 400gr solids @ 2,400fps, great cartridge.

Of course, maybe with a 1.5 - 5x scope you would've shot her in the brain with the first shot or a peep sight as you mentioned. The fact that you shot her 3 times with a 450 Dakota and she was still chasing you just emphasizes the importance of placing the first shot.

The amount of story's I've heard of Ele killed that fall close or beside the hunter (a fact when hunting at close quarters or "self defence" shooting distance) plus my own experiences gives me reason to justify a calibre as heavy as I can comfortably handle as that extra bit of knock down power might just pull one out of the muck.

Precise first shot placement is an important point that is not always available in some situations, such as such as deflection, animal movement and Self defence.

Chuck,

She was not chasing me. (Her mother was!) She could barely stand. Each shot knocked her 90-180 degrees sideways.

Obviously, if the first shot is right, you dont need a heavy.

Andy

Sorry my misunderstanding. I hate when women get pissed off! By the way, I plan to bring my 500 Jeffery when I come to Africa for cape buffalo, so I'm a believer in shoot as much gun as you can handle well. I will bring my 375 as a backup in case my 500 Jeffery get's damaged or lost in transit.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Each shot knocked her 90-180 degrees sideways.

Obviously, if the first shot is right, you dont need a heavy.

Andy

I will go out on a limb and guess that you know that your bullet was not "knocking her 90-180 degrees" with each shot.

Elephants have many different reactions when shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
I honestly felt, perhaps foolishly, that as long as I could shoot the cow, that she would not get me.

My opinion: that is why you missed the brain.

I believe that the big-bore guys often believe so strongly in the infallibility of their rifles that they forget that the number one rule in brain-shooting elephant is shot placement.

I believe the hunting videos support my observation.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
My question to the group is: would a 375 have stunned her as much?

Again, my opinion: no, the 375 would have hit the brain and killed her instantly.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

My question to the group is: would a 375 have stunned her as much?

Can't see how. I used to own a .450 Dakota, I shot 450gr TSXs @ 2,500fps and 400gr solids @ 2,400fps, great cartridge.

I used two 450 Dakotas both with 500 gr solids at 2375-2400 fps...no real comparison to a .375 if you miss the brain, or any body shot....diameter,energy,momentum all work for you.

quote:

Originally posted by bobgrow:

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

My question to the group is: would a 375 have stunned her as much?

Can't see how. I used to own a .450 Dakota, I shot 450gr TSXs @ 2,500fps and 400gr solids @ 2,400fps, great cartridge.

I used two 450 Dakotas both with 500 gr solids at 2375-2400 fps...no real comparison to a .375 if you miss the brain, or any body shot....diameter,energy,momentum all work for you.

Sorry, just noticed my typo, I meant 500gr solids not 400gr.

JB and group,

I do realize that momentum and/or energy is not stopping or turning the elephant. It was her reaction to the insult (damage) created by the bullet.

I was doing my damndest to hit the brain, hip, or spine and had shot 400 some rounds with the rifle prior to the hunt. The hip bone I shot was alot smaller than the brain. When sighting in for my PH, I shot a clover leaf at nearly 100 yards.

(But the target was not moving!)

A 375 with same 3 X scope would not have improved my shooting. I was closer than anticipated and had too much magnification.

Lesson learned.

But would a 375 have caused her to turn away from me w each shot?

I am sure there are more than a few members of the group who have used the 375 in similar situations. I would appriciate hearing from you all.

Andy