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After returning sat from South Africa I noticed a sore spot on my lower back. It is about an inch in diameter with a black crusty center. Local Doc says its looks like a Brown Recluse bite. Does anyone know if there is a spider in SA that produces similar symtoms? Other than feeling like Ive got the flu its not too bad at this point and Im treating with antibiotics and compresses. Any advice will be appreciated. Rob | ||
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There is a fiddle-back spider in southern Africa. Forget what they call it. Saw one in the shower last ime I was there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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your on the right treatment.for spider bites they heal slow. there are some docs. how post here how will be able to help if they see your post | |||
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I have never been bitten by an African spider, but I was on the receiving end of a bite by a Brown Recluse spider some 20 odd years ago. I frankly had a bit of a difficult time with it and it required surgery to remove the affected tissue. I still carry a healthy scar as a reminder. These things can go bad in a hurry. I would have my doctor keep a close eye on it, especially if it is close to your spine. Don't take it lightly. | |||
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I was bitten by a spider about 6 months ago whilst in camp chasing buff around, i noticed a hard lump on my shoulder and it grew to the size of a tennis ball. im not one for anti-biotics (long story) but didnt have a choice, was told that left alone it would require going for surgery to rectify and remove damaged tissue, i also took cortisone the same night and that with fairly quick treatment - 1 week sorted it out. | |||
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A button spider, perhaps? George  | |||
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My friend Bryan was bit on his left hand while we were in RSA 2009. a few days after returning home, he had a black crusty area on his hand and flu like symptoms. The doc ended up cutting some of the dead tissue away and loading him up with antibiotics. Sounded like a spider bite, but would like to know what it was. Martin | |||
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aubs, who bite who are you sure you did not bite the spider????  a big ol boy like you afraid to take your medication  NO beer is not medication!!!!!  | |||
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Tequilla is a pain killer  Martin | |||
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I would not be very comforatble with a diagnosis of "it looks like". I would go get it checked by someone who can get closer to "it is". Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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375LVR, yes yes it is and a dam good one too. I have been known to use it on occasion. works good for cure from nagging wife's too | |||
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the fiddle-backed spider is a VERY close relative to the brown recluse. The necrosis of tissue from their venom is the same. This is not something to just wait and see, and in most all cases antibiotics will not do everything that needs to be done. Debridding the dead and infected tissue is more often than not necessary, and necessary more than once. Jump on this quickly with a doc who knows the treatment for venoms. Dan Donarski Hunter's Horn Adventures Sault Ste. Marie, MI 49783 906-632-1947 www.huntershornadventures.com | |||
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Tequila is a cruel mistress! Seduces you into thoughts of invincibility. Reckless, stupid, fearless. Hence the need as a pain killer. The viscous cycle continues and yet you can not leave her. You tell yourself it will be better next time. You will stop before she coaxes you over the edge, but no you can not resist  Martin | |||
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I had a similar experience on our last hunt in the RSA. I think it was 04 but I am not sure. I noticed a bump on my hip. I didn't think much of it at the time. It kept getting more red by the day. It was deep red by the day we left. I still thought it was some sort of pimple. I boarded the plane and felt fine. However, I started to sweat profusely and shake uncontrollably. I was freezing. When we landed in London, I was terrified they wouldn't let me in the country. I had my 2 kids with me. I cleaned myself up and was allowed to enter England and to catch the flight to Orlando. On the flight to Orlando, I started to experience similar symptoms. I thought I had malaria as I had missed 1 of the pills and had been in a bad area. Once again, I cleaned myself up and was allowed to enter without problem. That night, I woke up with similar symptoms. I had a 104.something temperature. I went to the hospital where I was diagnosed with a spider bite. At this point, the bump was deep red with a sizable center that was absolutely black. The doctor said this was tissue that had died from the venom. He was going to cut it out. As he went to inject the numbing agent, this entire black chunk of dead tissue fell out. It was about twice the size of an eraser from a number 2 pencil. They also gave me antibiotics. It took a while to heal. | |||
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I noticed that when you google fiddle-back spider, it references fiddleback, button shoe, recluse etc as similar if not the same. Seems like different names depending on country. Either way, one nasty little critter. Martin | |||
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I suffered the same a while back. Hobo spider bite in the middle of the left forearm about 6 years ago. Started the same, red spot which continued to swell, hurt, and develope an abcessed center. Our company at the time was a friend and his wife up hunting; she was a PA in Texas, and she had me go immediately to the doctor for the bite. Antibiotics and Neosporin ointment applied directly to the area for several weeks. At its worst, the bite itself grew to the size and color of an apple, swollen from the elbow to hand, really was quite painful, and had to have the center flesh removed. Get it looked at immediately . | |||
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this is nothing to fool around with. the toxin in certain spiders is extremely toxic and can lead to serious conditions latter, such as heart problems, nerve destruction etc. it is not a job for your GP doctor. get referals and get you azz to a specialist that deals in this area, and do it NOW | |||
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ha, i splattered the buggers spider goo all over my arm as he landed and bit me, i think he was a special forces spider. man he bit me before i knew what was going on. that being said there were a good couple of empty soldiers lying around when the incident occurred.... hmmmmmm hell im scared of those Doctor-ma-bobs, they have nearly killed me twice and nearly cost me my leg. opposite to your experience, i came out on the short end of the stick with them. just a month ago they wouldnt believe me that i had tick bite fever as i didnt look too sick, i said to the doc that i was nearly dead and that she better take blood. half an hour later, doctor returns looking very sheepish with the lab results.... ah the things that go bump in the night | |||
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My daughter suffered a similar spider bite just over a year ago when we returned home from South Africa. We don't know if it happened while there, or just after her return, but she was one sick kid. High fever, swelling and some tissue damage. Doctors got on it right away with anti-biotics, lancing and draining, and hot compresses and after about a week she was doing much better. We were lucky to catch it when the red area was only about the size of a dime, could have been worse. | |||
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There are several hundred different brown spiders aften called recluse or fiddle back spiders. Some do not display a fiddle back marking at all. Some species are very dangerous and others not so much. What is common among them is that they have 3 pair of eyes all other spiders have 4 or more pairs. ("..") If you think of each pair of eyes as a single unit it looks like a little face two eyes and a nose The veneom attacks the lq. that make up the center of a cell its called cytoplasum (Forgot the spelling but that is close.) The bite is mosly painless, with a pimpley apperance with a head developing in the center within a short period of time, often two fang marks can be seen early on. The amout of swelling and tissue damage varies with species. Its the following infection that is the problem. People of poor health with immune problems or blood sugar problems often have long hospital stays and sometimes do die due to the infection. They loose lower extremities due to infection when bite on the lower leg or foot. They are hunter seekers and go out away from their nest to find prey, often crawing into cloths or shoes left on the floor. The bite hapens when the unlucky party gets dress and the spider gets traped. With the brown spiders I deal with here in the south, nobody I have worked with had cramping or fever until long after the infection set in, nobody had a black spot in the middle, its always a whiteheaded pimple. Some people who get bite once often have bites like sites show up later with no additonal spider bites happening. Make sure you follow up with medical care. If a Dr does not know what caused a bite ,They blame it on spiders. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Thanks a lot guys! I'll never be able to sleep in Africa again thinking about spider bites. JD - what can I spray around my bed to keep the little buggers away? | |||
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Amen! | |||
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Search South African tick bite fever. I had exactly the same symptoms and it was tick bite fever. Also have had probably 9 or 10 clients on some of our RSA hunts diagnosed with the same symptoms...all tick bite fever.If your in the bush there will be pepper ticks and those pepper tick carry the parasite, and if you havent had it you will get it... no big deal though. Any case a regiment of Doxasycoline will kick its butt.  | |||
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If you are in a area that is known to be infested. Don't leave stuff on the floor for them to crawl into,look before you put something on. Keep clutter and bug populations down if you can. Treating cloths and boots with permetherin may help a little, outside treatments with a insiceticde will help also. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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With out knowing anything about the local spiders Its hard for me to say for sure, but the fever so soon after the bite makes me think it could ber a tick borne virus. I would think that ticks or biteing flys are a bigger threat to hunters than snakes are spiders, they just are not as scary and maybe not as deadly most of the time. There are blood test for tick borne illness. I would have one run just to be sure. I think its a spider is a standard answer when DR's don't know. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Guys and Gals, I hate to burst your bubbles, but in fact there are 17 species of Loxosceles (Recluse spiders ) present in Africa. Recorded envenomations are most commonly the Refescens and Paramis species. Both the Recluse and Fiddleback spiders fall into the Loxoceles species. Only a small percentage of these actually show the traditional fiddleback markings. In addition to the Recluse, Six eyed, or sand spiders,Button spiders and Sack spiders are also causes of envenomation in Africa. The spider club of Southern Africa has an excellent website http://www.spiderclub.co.za/medical.html This site lists all of the dangerous species, as well as symptoms and treatments . Hopefully it will be useful to anyone wanting a bit more information. | |||
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Necrosis of the tissue and extreme pain are very charicteristic of many of our less lovely spiders. If there is no real pain and fever...I would check for tick bite as well! | |||
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aubs, your doctor is female and looks sheepish sounds like a love story to me I have heard that sheep are nervous when they hear your in the area are you sure the bite was not a fly and the old soldiers had affected your vision speaking of old soldiers I believe you owe me a beer if my old memory serves me right | |||
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I have been amazed at how many people with "spider bites" have NEVER seen the spider bite them. In fact, in close to 20 years and seeing multiple "spider bites," in only two cases has the victim actually seen the spider that bit them. For some reason, EVERYONE, knows about the Brown Recluse spider and is sure that the bite will make their arm fall off but I doubt that one in a hundred knows what one looks like other than the fact it's brown. By the way, there is NO rational reason to use antibiotics for a spider bite though there is a reason to use them for for a methicillin resistant staph aureus abscesses which these "spider bites" are in about 95% of cases. | |||
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Thanks for the link. Your brown button have made it to Americia. I am a exterminator working in New Orleans Louisiana. In 2003 they showed up at a car dealer I was takeing care of. I got reports of Black Widows in some of the cars. With a little inspection it became clear that they were something else. In no time at all I had a 1000+ new cars infested. I took some work to find out what they were, I brought down experts from New York. All we knew was that they were first cousin to the black widow and the venom was more toxic. We fumed a 1000 cars and sprayed 5 large car lots 3 times. Cost was about $140,000. 30 days of round the clock work. They have spread to the entire gulf coast in just 7 years. They are not a very agressive spider and we have found only one bite requireing hospital time and one reported death. Sorry about the hyjack. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Grumulkin, good point all of the spider bites i have had to deal with at work no one said they felt it when it happen. all said they felt something and when they looked they found the bite. I'm assuming most bites are painless at the time of the bite | |||
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The link that zimfrosty posted is the best I have seen. A good read for any Dr who may have to treat spider bites. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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easy answer on the pain at the time of being bitten Basically most spiders fall into either Nuero or cytotoxic venoms. The pain felt at the instant of a bite depends on the protein make up of the venom. The other reason that a lot of bites are not felt instantly is that many spiders are nocturnal and subsequently bites occur when the "Bitee" is asleep | |||
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zimFrosty  yeeper your right another good point | |||
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You have done a lot of study into this , what is your intrest, hobby or profesional. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Sac spiders (Cheiracanthium lawrencii especially) can also give you a pretty nasty bite, with swelling and necrosis, and you are probably much more likely to get bitten by one of these because of their abundance than a violin spider (Loxosceles), but both are pretty nasty, nasty enough to be of medical importance. | |||
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You have done a lot of study into this , what is your intrest, hobby or profesional. JD I am a Paramedic by qualification but have also done a lot of research on spiders mites and ticks over the years. My main area of interest is in fact snakes , but any of the creepy crawlies in Africa interest me. I am also a devout hunter and have been for many years. Living in Zim allows me to hunt and look at the nasties at the same time....BONUS  | |||
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So what is the diagnosis? I was diagnosed with a bite form a brown recluse when in fact it was trypanosomyasis (slleping sickness) But I realize there probably are no tse tse flies in SA...."...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Hi Rob- I hope you are feeling better. Did you actually SEE the spider bite you? A couple others have touched on it already, but it would be nice to hear from you directly. I guess I should place a disclaimer here so you know that this information is for general knowledge only and it should not take the place of a proper medical evaluation. SEE A DOCTOR if you have not already. Patients commonly present to the E.R. or clinic complaining of what they assume to be a "spider bite", but in actuality, no spider was seen or specifically identified. MRSA (methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus) infections are very commonplace in many populations now and are very often the causative bug. These infections are not known to typically cause the black eschar and central necrotic clearing, which is more characteristic of the necrotizing venom of some spiders. The MRSA infections more typically cause the "boils" that some folks have described above that can grow from a small lump to the size of an orange or bigger. They are treated with incision and drainage and a course of antibiotics that the bacteria is known to be susceptible to (usually Bactrim or Clindamycin). I would not suggest adding any steroids as mentioned above, because that can actually attenuate your body's own immune response and either prolong or worsen the symptoms. If you have any pictures and are comfortable posting them, feel free to share them. For reference here are few (sorry they are graphic) images of a known venomous spider bite: In order, these photos are from 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 days after the bite occurred.       | |||
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