My smith has run into a problem in building my .35 Whelen (It shoots three inch groups at 100 yards -- possibly due to the reamer having 5/8-inch of freebore). He is going to have to set the barrel back and re-ream it to try and get it to shoot. Obviously, I can not count on it being ready by the time I leave next month.

So, enter plan "B": I'll transfer the illuminated scope off that one and take one of my .300 magnums for use on leopard. My question is what bullet?

Before you start yelling "partition, partition, partition", let me tell you that neither of my .300s likes partitions very much. So that narrows my choice quite a bit.

The one gun I'm leaning towards likes two bullets very much: 180-grain Sierra Game Kings and 180-grain Speer Grand Slams, both in front of 76 grains of H 4831 SC. At the moment, I'm leaning toward the Game Kings, because I understand that hydrostatic shock is important when hunting leopard, and I don't think there is ANY bullet that provides more hydrostatic shock than a Game King. The 180 grains of weight should provide assurance of penetration.

The Grand Slam, on the other hand, opens quickly and would most certainly provide complete penetration. The trade-off is that it does not have near the "explosive" energy of the softer Sierra.

What would you do?

GAHunter;

I would see no problem using either bullet on a Leopard, put it in the lungs, and he is done for.

I "biggest" problem I have heard of, is using a bullet that is too tough.

By the way, I have a 35 W reamer if you are in need of it.

I've taken a leopard with a .300 Win. Mag. and the 180 gr. Winchester Fail-Safe bullet, and it killed him straight away. The Fail-Safe isn't a "soft" expanding bullet by any means, but if you place you shot well, I don't think you need a fragmentary-type hunting bullet to achieve quick kills on leopard. Scores of them are killed every year with various premium bullets fired from a wide variety of cartridges, and you don't hear of problems resulting from the action of the bullet itself, at least I never have. Bullet placement problems are a much bigger issue.

With your rifle, I'd go with those Grand Slams........

AD

I will be in Namibia in 3 months. I think I am going to use 150 ballistic tips in my 7mm Rem, and 160 TSX's for P-game

I would try the Swift A-Frame.

And what is it with you and firearms? I've never seen one guy have so much trouble getting a gun built right (the first time).

George

George,

I am absolutely snake bit when it comes to rifles, both custom and "stock." I have no less that five rifles that suffer from one degree of trouble or another. The Whelen is just the latest in a long line of disasters. Funny thing is I discovered the problem with the freebore myself when I went over to the smith's shop with a Stoney Point OAL gauge and found that in order to contact the rifling, I would have to set the bullet out to the boat tail on a ballistic tip. He said, "well that's the way the reamer I rented was set up." He promised that if the gun didn't shoot, he would re-ream it after setting the barrel back. Well, it didn't shoot.

You know about the 404 (I could write a book on that one).

I also bought a cheap Mossberg SS1, single shot 30-'06 a couple of years ago, and it misfires more than it does not. I took it to a smith who found out that the rifle is WAY heaspaced too long. It closes and operates great on a Field Gauge (so called "war only" gauge). Also, it occasionally decides not to release the firing pin when the trigger is pulled (this is did earlier this year when I tried to shot an 11-point buck). It remains "frozen" until you break it open and reclose it.

I have a custom .300 WSM built on a Remington action that holds only two down in the magazine and will only shoot Speer Grand Slams because the smith (my cousin) insisted on using a removable box magazine and the Grand Slam is the only round that will fit in it. Also, it weighs over nine pounds! For this I paid $1600.

I also have an A-bolt that might hit a deer, but only if he happens to walk in the direction the bullet is traveling when it is fired. Because it certainly is not going to hit him where he is standing when the trigger is pulled. If this gun holds an eight-inch group at two hundred yards, it's cause for much celebration.

The good news is I have one .300 Win Mag that began life with a multitude of accuracy problems, but afer restocking, rebarreling, trigger work and bedding, shoots MOA groups with the bullets mentioned above (that's the one I'm using on Leopard).

I also have two .270s that shoot exceptionally well, as well as a .260 and a .243 that are acceptable.

My .375 H&H shoots OK, but could do a lot better at longer range. I also have another .375 that I have not shot yet (It'll probably blow up when I pull the trigger).

But, Hey -- I have eight shotguns that don't give me a lick of trouble! Life is not all bad!

Maybe you should'nt give your cousin any more work

Personally, I prefer to deal with a top professional (reputation, quality) than with a good smith that I am too comfortable with.

I shot my one leopard with a .375 H&H using the Remington Safari ammo with 300 grain Swift A-Frame, and put the bullet through the lungs at 40 yards. There wasn't any sign of much expansion on the exit side.

Cross-wise on a leopard is not very much, I think I would use about any bullet -- as long as I could get both lungs he is dead.

jim

GADZOOKS!!

The guys behind you at the gun store must be the lucky one; you end up with all the stinkers.

I'd like to say that all this tribulation builds character, but if that was true, you'd have the finest character on the planet.

George
P.S. I had the same trouble with the one A-Bolt I owned. The POS wouldn't shoot two groups in the same place or of the same size. Needless to say, I'll never buy another A-Bolt.

GAHUTER,

Even in the best setup a leopard does not always give you that perfect brodside double lung shot. I've shot them brodside, in the front of the chest and out the other end and quratering through the body. I used a premium bullet in all cases and the leopard died right now. In fact one didn't even move it just died in the tree.

Leave the frangible bullets at home and use your GS's for everythng. If you shoot straight you'll be happy.

Regards,

Mark

You should be carefull about blowing a big hard to patch hole in old spots...I lean towards a little tougher bullet than most but I like what your gun won't shoot...Try a 180 gr. Woodliegh either RN or spitzer...Maybe a 200 gr. Woodleigh RN, that would work fine....

Ray,
Given a choice of the 160TSX or 150 Ballistic Tip from a 7mmRemMag, which would you choose for Leopard? Both shoot pretty much the same at 50 yards. Wolf

GAHUNTER
You might try a Trophy Bonded Bearclaw. I have had very good luck with them on animals like bobcats, and coyotes, killing them quickly without "blowing up" the hides, and they have killed several big pigs in their tracks, without ruining a lot of meat yet making a big hole through the vitals. The Bonded bullet does not throw off a lot of lead fragments that will rip up the hide on a leopard.
I was going to use 285gr Hawks with the .035jkt in my 9,3x74R on leopard last June [no males in the tree], but may rethink that choice as the Hawk did a number on the Baboon I shot. I may use the Woodleigh Soft next time for leopard.

Wolfgar,
I personally would go with the 160 TSX as I fear at short range at that high velocity the bullet may blow up on the surface, I don't know that but I wouldn't take a chance...The Balistic could blow up causeing a surface wound, it could tear a Leopard skin up..I wouldn't want to use it.

As for a Leopard bullet, about anything will kill a deer will work fine on a Leopard, he is fragile of frame...

I am definately partial to Woodleighs or Noslers for Leopard...they open up and make two holes for a blood trail, don't tear up the off side skin to much, usually about a 25 to 50 cent size exit hole, thats just right.....

Thanks Ray, I have read that the TSX's are too tough for the cat, however, you are correct since the bullet will still be going close to 3,000fps at such close range.I was just worried that the TSX would just blow through on a broadside shot, causing a hairy follow-up. I would rather just take one load (the TSX) and kill everything with that. Your thoughts??

The first Leopard I took was with a 375H&H with Speer Grand Slams. 50 meter shot from blind thru lungs. Blood all over the place. He still ran 75yds uphill and backed under a bush to wait for us. Of course he was dead when we found him but he DID NOT die on the spot so to speak and could have still bit you pretty good. The lungs were completely mush and the exit wound was about 1 1/2". Leopards are fearsome things to me and I've seen quite a few killed. I have the greatest respect(fear) for them and Elephants.

Zim, what would you use in a 7mm??

Consider some North Fork bullets.

Russ

The only 7mm I have is a 7x57 and I use nothing but 175gr Nosler Partitions. Used it on kudu last year in Zim and it was very deadly. I killed several with ranges out to 250yds.I also like the 160gr Nosler Partition. I load the 175gr with 44.5gr IMR4350 for 2500fps. I would probably use the same bullets in a 7mm Magnum, but as I said I only have the 7x57. It's the only custom rifle I have ever had built for me. A friend who I went to gunsmith school with built it for me a couple of years ago. Mostly I have used guns I build myself or were built for someone else. Had it built in 7x57 as that was about the only caliber I had never owned.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
Zim, what would you use in a 7mm??

Wolfgar,

I shoot a 7mm rem mag quite a bit and have on everything from elk/whitetail/goats and also shot it on my safari last year in the Selous. I shoot the factorie nosler partitions in 160gr. All my plains game fell first shot and this load is very flat as well I used about 6" hold over on a 400+ yard shot.

I have no cat experience but have a lot of faith in that load on most every thing else.

James F. Nixon III

Thanks James. I did try the 160 NP's, but they were not accurate in my rifle, and the 160TSX's are.Thats why I have been using them. I did kill a black bear with the 160 NP and the bear went only 30 yards.

OK, so I'm down to two choices for my 50 yard shot at the cat from my 7mmRemMag:
1) 160gr TSX at approx 3,000 fps
2) 150gr Ballistic Tip 3,150 fps

On one hand I want to blow a huge hole in him-Ballistic Tip....And on the other, at such high impact velocity, I want the bullet to stay together, especially on a full-on or angle shot-TSX. Help me out please.

quote:

On one hand I want to blow a huge hole in him-Ballistic Tip....And on the other, at such high impact velocity, I want the bullet to stay together, especially on a full-on or angle shot-TSX. Help me out please.

Load the Ballistic Tip down a bit, they aren't so frangible that they will blow up on a cat at moderate velocity. You will still have all the shock that you need.
Use the TSX on all your other game, it is wonderful, but I had a less than impressive experience with it on a well-placed shot on a big Leopard, out of a 300 WSM. This doesn't make me an expert, but I do study the effects of all my shots on game, and bullet performance.Just my opinion. Good luck and good shooting.

Thanks Aggie,
I do plan on using the TSX for everything else. I agree with your advice 100%, but I do not handload, so I will be using factory ammo. What would you use without the handload option? BTW, what happened with your leopard??

I might consider one of the Hornady Interbonds or Interlocks, they seem to hold together well while offering plenty of expansion, though not violent expansion.

I shot a big Tom over bait with the 180 gr. TSX, thru the shoulder, quartering, hit both lungs but put just a TEENY hole in the lungs, very little internal bleeding; he ran off, it got dark, and though we eventually found him dead, it was a nerve-wracking couple of hours on the follow-up. I submit that the adrenaline rush is part of the thrill of dangerous game hunting, and am no coward, but I think I want my next Leopard to die a little closer to where I shoot him.

I just think that a little softer bullet, given same shot placement, would do a better job. Also, I didn't feel too well-armed with that same rifle/bullet combo following a wounded cat. All worked out well, no-one got hurt, but the odds are against you in the long run if you put yourself in that position often.

Wolfgar
Try some Federal factory Trophy Bonded Bearclaws.
They expand well, yet to not fragment. They seem to impart a lot of shock yet do not tear up the hide on exit.

GAHUNTER,
Last year I used a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, 180 grain in my 300 Mag. 1 shot all that was needed. Used this all all plains game taken, proof is in the pudding. On my Kudu same bullet used for 1 shot at 320 yards, Bam it was taken.
Bobga

I still can't decide!!
7mmRemMag 150gr Ballistic Tip at 3150fps
OR 160gr TSX at 3000fps
50 yard shot, help me decide!