In the Sports Afield interview, Robin Hurt made the statement: "Big ivory is a result of age." He went on to say, if hunters would show restraint, we could see 100 pounders again. He fully expected to see some in the next few years come from Botswana, as well as some big tuskers from Namibia.

So, is the age of the 100 lb elephant over, or do you believe, like Mr. Hurt, if sportsmen would take the 50-60 lbers, we would again see the big tuskers?

Any thoughts?

They're far from plentiful, but there are still 100 pounders around now. Mozambique and Tanzania (amongst others) still produce the odd tusker of that kind of weight.

I think the jist of the answer to SA's question, was that there would be a lot more around if we would allow them to live long enough. Of course there are other factors, human encroachment, poaching, etc... But it seemed to me that Hurt suggested that the limiting factor in big ivory of the 90-100 pound class was age, not necessarily genetics or other influences.

I have no idea and no opinion on the matter, was hoping our PH's and elephant hunters might chime in.

Sure would be nice if USFWS would allow U.S. citizens to import ivory from Moz, though.

I personally think it's a combination of factors, including genetics, age & food sources etc....... but I also don't see anything wrong with taking the 100 or so pounders, as by the time thay attain that kind of weight, they're going to be past breeding age, on their last set of teeth and probably getting ready to die of natural causes anyway - and will have already passed their genes on. I'm not a zoologist but I personally believe (in an ideal world) that it's largely a matter or responsible management...... but that's easier said than done in the wilderness and poverty of Africa.

Tanzania has a good management policy for Elephant in that they have a minimum size and weight restriction on the tusk. (currently 1.7 metres lip to tip and 17 kgs) Mozambique as far as I can remember, doesn't have any restriction, which is why USFAWS allow Tanzanian import but not Mozambican......... however, (without wanting to get into a political argument) that doesn't explain why they allow Zim import...... guess that's just a case of "go figure!"

One could argue that we don't have an Elephant population problem at all, we rather have a human population problem and that encroachment has reduced the elephants range, and more to the point it's ability to move from area to area and country to country across the continent.........

That is probably true if the bull is carrying 100-pound genes. Not every bull is from that pool.

I haven't seen any particular studies on elephants, but if 100# elephants are being killed, and animals that only have 50# tusks live as long as they are able to reproduce, you will apply a pressure on the population toward smaller tusks. Even if tusk size is currently limited by age or nutrition -- my guess would be more nutrition and stress, but I'm not familiar w. elephant's development cycle, age, anything other than gray, wrinkly, and unfriendly -- you will begin to select for a genetic limit on tusk size.

I dont think it is all due to age...I think genetics and overall health have as much to do with it as anything. Take Africa's parks...they do not get hunting pressure and there are not an abundence of 100lb elephant running around....sure they are there...but so are alot of 80lb bulls.

If you get Jack Brittingham's new DVD "Quest for Zimbabwean Big Game Vol. 2", he shoots a bull with his bow in Zim that goes 100 lbs.

Genetics and age definately play a part in how big of ivory a bull will carry. This past March I took an very big and old PAC bull that was on his last set of teeth. He was probably 50 to 60 years of age. The tusks were not broken or unusually worn and they weighed 41 and 44 lbs (see pic in Nickudu files.) I will give my take on this post and hopefully Ganyana will drop in and correct me where I am wrong. All three isuues are important, genetics, nutrition and age. Another is hunter selectivity. If bulls are harvested heavily enough they never can reach the age to grow big ivory. That is why you pay more for larger tusks in some countrys. The condition of the bull especially as it relates to mineral intake can affect how hard or soft the ivory is. Some habitats lead to more broken tusks than other types of habitat and possibly the amount of fighting that goes on between bulls may also affect how many have broken tusks. We could manage for maximum size in tusk weights by restricting most of the harvest to bulls with broken tusks or those that obviously don't have the genetic potential to grow large tusks. The problem here is that if youe paying a 10 to 25 K trophy fee your going to want to shoot the largest set of tusks that you see. A sliding trophy fee schedule based on tusk size may help that problem but the quality of the hunting experience is severly reduced. Growing big tusks and big antlered deer in Texas is very similar except that elephants continue to increase their tusk size as long as they live while deer reach a peak and antler size actuall decreases in later life.

Shakari! I may be wrong here but i was under the impression that the problem USFWS has with Mozambique is that they (USFWS) does not think that Moz has a suffeciently good enough management plan or population census data on their elephants.
465H&H

465H&H

Thats what I said........

Just to chip in on 465's comments re the genetics

If tusks grow forwards they are more heavily used, and therefore worn and usually broken. If they grow pointing downwards there is a consideraqbly greater chance of them not being broken and reaching a good size.

The biggest tusk to come out of Zimbabwe was taken in (what is now) Mana pools NP. 76kg's- A single tusker. As a professional Ivory hunter just after WWII my father was based at Barron de Rosa's farm - Rossyln ( Now matetsi unit 3) where his uncle was the manager. He also hunted the Zambezi valley. The biggest ivory he took came from mana area 62kg and 59kg and the biggest from Hwange 42 & 41 kg;.

Valley elephants tend to have long thin downward growing tusks. Hwange are definately forward growing.

Even in the 1940's and continuing today, the "biggest" ivory on average in Zim comes from down around Gona-re-Zhou and the Kruger NP border. Again Downward growing tusks.

For many years we took tusked cow elephants completely off quota to try and protect the gene pool for big tusks since, inevitably a Hunter always shot the cow with the biggest tusks. Either she was the maitriach or the best genes - eitherway not a good plan and they were taken off quota. With the massive paching sprees in Zim in 1993 and 2000 on top of poor quota setting programmes in the 1960-80's , I suspect we have lost much of the genetic potential for massive tuskers.

70 and 80+ pounders recently have come from the tribal areas around Chizz park. Dont know the age on these bulls but Robin is saying if we turn down that 80 pounder our children will have a shot at a 100 pounder?