>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJyvf_wvhO8 ...

Just a bit outside...

Mike Schoby's shot was very close to Mike Payne.

If I remember correctly this was in 2006. I ran into Mike in the Johannesburg airport and he said he had a close call with a buffalo up in Zim. I think the important thing about this was that the shot was controlled, deliberate, and well aimed. Too close to the PH? Yes, but some things can't be controlled. However, the shot was not haphazard, from the hip, or panicked. I think he kept his nerve, controlled his rifle and shot the buffalo and not his PH. Kudos to him and his PH.

quote:

Originally posted by mustbhuntn:
If I remember correctly this was in 2006. I ran into Mike in the Johannesburg airport and he said he had a close call with a buffalo up in Zim. I think the important thing about this was that the shot was controlled, deliberate, and well aimed. Too close to the PH? Yes, but some things can't be controlled. However, the shot was not haphazard, from the hip, or panicked. I think he kept his nerve, controlled his rifle and shot the buffalo and not his PH. Kudos to him and his PH.

Unnecessary and risky shot. In that situation let the PH shoot and take one or two big steps off the line of force until clear before firing.

How can you say "didn't panic" "kept his nerve" "controlled his rifle". Unless the video perspective is very distorted, he missed his PH by two inches! That is panic, indeed.

Jim

The perspective from the camera angle is different than the view Mike had. Certainly not an ideal situation and the shot is closer to the PH than anyone would like. But he did not shoot his PH and he did hit the buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by mustbhuntn:
If I remember correctly this was in 2006. I ran into Mike in the Johannesburg airport and he said he had a close call with a buffalo up in Zim. I think the important thing about this was that the shot was controlled, deliberate, and well aimed. Too close to the PH? Yes, but some things can't be controlled. However, the shot was not haphazard, from the hip, or panicked. I think he kept his nerve, controlled his rifle and shot the buffalo and not his PH. Kudos to him and his PH.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, respectfully of course. I've brought this video clip to the forum's attention a couple of times previously. IMO, Schoby's shot WAS haphazard, from the hip, and panicked. It appears to me that he had it in his mind that he was going to shoot, regardless of the proximity of Mike Payne. Clearly, Payne was moving rapidly to his left and just stopped short of further movement in that direction, saving this encounter from being a tragedy. It appears that Schoby was "locked on" to the buff and maybe suffered from a bit of "tunnel vision".

I don't mean to suggest Schoby did anything dangerous intentionally here, but rather that he got caught up in the excitement of the moment as he had previously wounded this bull and the adrenalin was obviously flowing; the clip here showing a portion of the follow up. Personally, I think this clip is a great example of how easy it is to develop "tunnel vision" in this type of high stress encounter. I've had it happen to me on two memorable occasions and it's quite scary when you realize what just happened and that there were additional, very real and pressing dangers in the periphery that you were completely unaware of during the event!! I think that's what happened to Schoby here in that he lost track of where Payne was and how he was moving into the line of fire, yet fired his weapon anyway!

It would be easy to criticize Schoby in this clip but I think it is important footage to help gain insight and possibly prepare oneself better to avoid developing "tunnel vision" to the exclusion of the bigger picture. That being said, there is only so much prep one can benefit from by reading and watching video, short of actual in the field experience.

Respectfully, but are we watching the same video?!

Surestrike, I would rather strike up a frienshp than argue with you.... but if he didn't shoot he PH would probably have been gored. He did miss the PH right? and the PH was still knocked down by the buff.

Jhaney: same question.

Todd, you really think he should have waited for Payne to shoot? It looks like Payne shot as the buff knocked him down. If Shooby had not fired Payne would be dead, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
IMO, Schoby's shot WAS haphazard, from the hip, and panicked. It appears to me that he had it in his mind that he was going to shoot, regardless of the proximity of the Mike Payne. Clearly, Payne was moving rapidly to his left and just stopped short of further movement in that direction, saving this encounter from being a tragedy. It appears that Schoby was "locked on" to the buff and maybe suffered from a bit of "tunnel vision".

Todd
Watch the video again. He had the rifle at he shoulder and was aiming. The PH "moving to his left" is only clear in the video. If you think that would be clear in a charge you are using some wishful thinking IMO. Payne is VERY LUCKY that Shobey was able to get a shot in because he was not able to stop the charge from his postion.

Some good comments Todd as always and a great opportunity to learn from as well. I believe it is important to regularly visualize similar types of scenarios and commit mentally to follow shooting rules/fundamentals. These can include simple things like finger placement away from the trigger until on shoulder, safety engagement and disengagement rules (safety released when gun is coming to the shoulder and back on when it is lowered) not released when things get tight to save time. These should be practiced when handling rifles in general and also when dry firing to reinforce.

Often when we hunt with someone we know of by name or that we know hunts often, it is easy to conclude that they have had plenty of experience in certain situations and are comfortable in tight spots. That is an assumption that could lead to a dangerous and perhaps avoidable situation.

If time allows, it can be beneficial to quickly refresh the shooting rules when going into something potentially difficult to refocus safety when adrenalin is possibly flowing. A simple mention along the lines of…if he comes at me and you are behind me don’t shoot, let me deal with him. If we are even then go ahead and shoot. Communication is important and just takes a moment.

Generally it is very dangerous to shoot from behind someone in nasty stuff while things are in motion just as it is dangerous to release a safety to gain a speed edge or to rest a finger inside of a trigger guard to be faster with a shot. If you don't stick to what you practice, all it takes is a stumble when the rules are broken or bad judgement when tunnel vision creeps in and the results could be catastrophic.

The people to ask if the shot was safe and appropriate are Schoby and Payne after they had a chance to review the tape. It did not look safe to me.

Jason,

The only luck Payne experienced IMO is that he didn't get shot! Schoby's shot does not appear to have had any appreciable effect on the buff whatsoever. It didn't drop him or turn him in any visible manner. Furthermore, after both guys fired, the buff is clearly seen running away, not showing any immediate sign of being worse for the wear! Therefore, from the standpoint of the limited amount of time involved from the time Schoby fired until the buff hit Payne, I can't see how his firing changed the outcome at all. Certainly, Schoby's shot did NOT save Payne from being killed as you suggest.

Personally, I see this as a risk / reward scenario in terms of whether or not Schoby should have fired from that position. We all know the easiest thing to do is second guess and armchair quarterback the situation. You actually make my point however in that Schoby probably didn't pick up Payne's movement to the left. He was too locked on to the buff with tunnel vision, and didn't see what was happening in his periphery. I think that's the most valuable part of this clip. To the best of our abilities, we should realize and attempt to be aware that "locking on" can easily result in taking a shot that exposes others to more risk than is likely to be effective in terms of the animal's intentions. In other words, with a buffalo, ele being a bit different, nothing short of a CNS hit was going to stop that charge. Scoped rifle, close in surprise attack, narrow field of firing upon a fast moving but rather small target (CNS), highly unlikely to hit the CNS and stop the charge when compared to how easy it would have been to hit Payne in the back had he continued moving left, or even tripped and fell to the left.

Listen, it's not an easy situation to handle and I'll be the first to admit that. I'll also not sit here and claim I'd handle it perfectly either, but I do hope I'd make the decision to not shoot in this case realizing that the PH No. 1 is armed and capable as well, and No. 2 that he is more likely to survive being hit by the buff than by being shot in the back with a big bore rifle!

For me, the most troubling thing about the video is that these guys were in a single file line while they were expecting a charge at any second (at least according to the client). Trackers are usually pretty good at getting out of the way, but things do happen very, very quickly during a charge, and I'd hate to have a client with a loaded gun behind me in that situation. Having a competent guy with a gun at my side (and not my back) is another thing, but not every client is as competent as he thinks he is, so it really is a case-by-case decision for the PH.

Easily, the thing that made me most nervous during my apprenticeship was having over-excited clients behind me with loaded guns. I'm certain that I threw away a tip in one case when I snapped at a client during a follow-up for sweeping the back of my head with his loaded, safety-off gun with his finger on the trigger. I had spotted his animal in the brush, and we didn't yet know if it was dead. As I held my light and gun on the animal and whistled to get the attention of the others on the team, the client shouldered his gun, stammered "I'm gonna get him" and nearly put one through my skull or my back. On the one buffalo charge that I was involved with, which happened in a dense thicket, I was glad that the client didn't try to be a hero when things got crazy. Notably, the mentor PH and I were spaced apart right to left, and we were both able to safely put bullets in the buff when it came at us. Had we been in a single file line, we would have been less effective and more dangerous to each other.

Anyway, I wasn't there for the hunt in the video, so it's hard to pass judgment based on a brief clip. Also, as others have noted, the camera angle surely makes it look worse than it was. Subject to those caveats and based on what we do have to look at, it seems like they were asking for trouble. Hindsight is 20/20, of course.

With NO experience I'm not qualified to offer an opinion, but tactically it seems a bad idea to have a live gun buried that deep behind the threat axis. Seems like the client should, if possible, have the first shot opportunity without having to shoot through the PH.

Reckon anybody needed a drink?

My Question here is, why was the hunter behind his PH?
Gerard Miller and other Savy PHs have taught me to stand shoulder to shoulder with them with enough room between us to react when cover permitted while following up D.G. The footage shows plenty of room to do just that in this situation and with good light to boot.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanajay:
My Question here is, why was the hunter behind his PH?
Gerard Miller and other Savy PHs have taught me to stand shoulder to shoulder with them with enough room between us to react when cover permitted while following up D.G. The footage shows plenty of room to do just that in this situation and with good light to boot.

- What transpired in the follow up can only be described as a reckless and irresponsible move by the client and lucky not to have plugged his PH in the left shoulder (brings back memories doesn't it).
To further aggravate the situation, following up on wounded DG with a scoped rifle is not exactly the wisest of decisions (reason why QD mounts were invented).
Very correctly stated Bwanajay: "Shoulder to shoulder with enough room to react".

I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the smelly brown stuff that most if not all PHs here have made a habit of telling the client in follow up situations to stay in line with him & reasonably close etc and I'll bet the same again that a highish percentage of them lag at least a pace or two behind.

That isn't a criticism of all or even a lot of clients but perhaps might be an observation of human nature.

As for scoped rifles in a follow up: Yup. They're a piss poor idea (IMO) but it's not that uncommon to see non QD scope mounts on DG rifles.

Come to that, it's not very common to come across a client that can shoot open sights anywhere near competently nowadays............. and that might perhaps be a criticism.

quote:

Surestrike, I would rather strike up a frienshp than argue with you.... but if he didn't shoot he PH would probably have been gored. He did miss the PH right? and the PH was still knocked down by the buff.

JBrown,

Obviously we can debate any subject and remain friends it only gets ugly when the personal insults start to fly. So with that in mind no insult is taken or implied here.

I am a law enforcement trainer and do a fair piece of tactical shooting. DG hunters can learn a lot from LEO/Military small arms tactics.

I'll stand by my previous comment. You don't almost kill your point man with friendly fire in an effort to keep him from almost getting killed by the threat. Because if it would have been two inches more to left he would have killed his point man and kept him from getting almost killed by the threat.

Pure and simple Mike is lucky he didn't develop a bad case of bullet holitis.

I am also an airline pilot and a instructor at that airline these scenarios are EXACTLY the same type of adrenalin filled emergency situations we train and drill for in the simulator. If you aren't mentally prepared and properly drilled and trained for an in your face sudden threat you are relying on luck not training and skill. A close quarters buffalo charge is the same type of shock and awe that causes you to get a case of the stupids as is a massive compressor stall and engine seizure at rotation on an instrument takeoff. If you haven't trained and prepared yourself you are going to screw it up BECAUSE you will get tunnel vision you will have auditory exclusion and you will either act as you've taught yourself to through training and drilling, or you are relying on yourself to make untrained unfamiliar actions, and to do it faster than your brain can comprehend what is happening. This is not my opinion this is fact and it's been studied and developed for decades and is constantly being tweaked and perfected for professionals who have to deal with life instant life or death decisions on a daily basis.

Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation we all use these principals in our training regimes.

Or you can leave it all to chance. Your choice.

Now as far as the scope comment by shakari. I 100% agree. A scope by design funnels your vision and kills your periphreal vision, severely limiting your brains ability take in and react to issues around you.

Surestrike

You do indeed make some good points but let's not forget that the people you mention (Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation) are all highly trained professionals in their respective fields.

Hunting clients are not highly trained in the art of following up bad tempered bin 'n uglies.

Which takes us back to some of my previous points.

This is terribly frightening! My eyes tell me that
the PH was very nearly shot. It looked horribly
too close to be acceptable.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surestrike

You do indeed make some good points but let's not forget that the people you mention (Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation) are all highly trained professionals in their respective fields.

Hunting clients are not highly trained in the art of following up bad tempered bin 'n uglies.

Which takes us back to some of my previous points.

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

It's not difficult to practice the basics and formulate a plan in your head for the when the bad stuff happens.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

It's not difficult to practice the basics and formulate a plan in your head for the when the bad stuff happens.

I agree completely but quite honestly, it's relatively unusual to come across a hunting client who has the abilities & can meet the standards we're discussing here.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

It's not difficult to practice the basics and formulate a plan in your head for the when the bad stuff happens.

I agree completely but quite honestly, it's relatively unusual to come across a hunting client who has the abilities & can meet the standards we're discussing here.

Understood and it makes me CRAZY when I see hunters here on AR making excuses for lousy hunting technique and rifle handling.

What I am talking about takes a minimal amount of effort, it's simply a mind set and change up of the normal shooting/range routine.

I've said this several times before but quite why anyone puts such things on You Tube, I simply don't know.

We're our own worst enemies & You Tube will be the death of trophy sport hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

Understood and it makes me CRAZY when I see hunters here on AR making excuses for lousy hunting technique and rifle handling.

What I am talking about takes a minimal amount of effort, it's simply a mind set and change up of the normal shooting/range routine.

I agree completely but unfortunately I doubt that average standards will improve in the foreseeable future.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

It's not difficult to practice the basics and formulate a plan in your head for the when the bad stuff happens.

I agree completely but quite honestly, it's relatively unusual to come across a hunting client who has the abilities & can meet the standards we're discussing here.

Which is exactly why I cringe whenever someone says or posts something to the effect that "The PH is there to pull the client's ass out of the fire when things go pear shaped". IMO, the client should never take to the field in pursuit of DG with that attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

Which is exactly why I cringe whenever someone says or posts something to the effect that "The PH is there to pull the client's ass out of the fire when things go pear shaped". IMO, the client should never take to the field in pursuit of DG with that attitude.

If they didn't, there'd be a shed load of unemployed PHs.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surestrike

You do indeed make some good points but let's not forget that the people you mention (Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation) are all highly trained professionals in their respective fields.

Hunting clients are not highly trained in the art of following up bad tempered bin 'n uglies.

Which takes us back to some of my previous points.

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

Since there are no minimum gov. regulation based proficiency standards in place for clients wishing to hunt DG,
and since,
Safari operators & PHs will accept just about anyone who can afford a BigBore and a DG hunt, regardless of their lack of
gun handling and DG hunting skills & disiplines,

Then how can we realistically expect anything to change for the better regarding near misses[or hits] on PHs with a clients bullet?

Money makes people allow,overlook, or turn a blind eye,to many things.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Which is exactly why I cringe whenever someone says or posts something to the effect that
"The PH is there to pull the client's ass out of the fire when things go pear shaped".
IMO, the client should never take to the field in pursuit of DG with that attitude.

Part of the responsibility rests with the hunting industry itself.
They seem constantly willing to accept cashed-up clients with just the attitude you cringe at.

If a wealthy person went Africa with an expensive bespopke rifle wishing to hunt a series of DG animals,
Which PH would reject his business even knowing the client is a hopeless unreliable shot, that highly likely will
have to rely on the PH somewheres along the line?

quote:

Originally posted by sandyhunter:
For me, the most troubling thing about the video is that these guys were in a single file line while they were expecting a charge at any second (at least according to the client).
Trackers are usually pretty good at getting out of the way, but things do happen very, very quickly during a charge, and I'd hate to have a client with a loaded gun behind me in that situation.
Having a competent guy with a gun at my side (and not my back) is another thing, but not every client is as competent as he thinks he is, so it really is a case-by-case decision for the PH.

...

A PH, like a flying instructor, has to make the call when his ametuer-novice student/client has had enough 'fun at the controls' so to speak,
and start seriously calling the shots himself..[take control of the aircraft or take out the DG]
Some lets say, 'student'or ametuer pilots or hunters, can manage to gain more trust from their guide/instructor...others not.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surestrike

You do indeed make some good points but let's not forget that the people you mention (Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation) are all highly trained professionals in their respective fields.

Hunting clients are not highly trained in the art of following up bad tempered bin 'n uglies.

Which takes us back to some of my previous points.

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

Since there are no minimum gov. regulation based proficiency standards in place for clients wishing to hunt DG,
and since,
Safari operators & PHs will accept just about anyone who can afford a BigBore and a DG hunt, regardless of their lack of
gun handling and DG hunting skills & disiplines,

Then how can we realistically expect anything to change for the better regarding near misses[or hits] on PHs with a clients bullet?

Money makes people allow,overlook, or turn a blind eye,to many things.

Exactly and with that in mind since the government isn't here to be a nanny for you, we can only be accountable for ourselves and we owe it to ourselves and to the crew we are hunting with to be proficient.

I can't fix the other guy but I can fix myself and the folks I choose to hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
we can only be accountable for ourselves and we owe it to ourselves and to the crew we are hunting with to be proficient.

Some people in influential positions or of great wealth, dont feel/ or have the attitude, that they should make such effort to be proficient.
Some rich people would pay someone to wipe their ass for them if possible, and I am sure there are some who would accept payment for doing such.

My experience at a state police driver instruction school, was that I was required to deal with ranking officers who felt they didnt have to sit the
tactical driving proficiency course & test, ranking officers either tried to intimidate or bribe instructors, so they could be passed on the course without meeting the std.
Dealing with such arrogance and corruption was harder than the job of getting the more willing participant police officers successfully through the mandatory course.
It was not something I happen to discover on the job, but was an entrenched internal culture that I was officially briefed/ well forewarned about, and told I would
surely face upon taking the driving instructor position.

Since there is no regulatory legal requirement for ametuers to meet some proficient std. at gun handling or DG hunting, it is the hunting industry
that continues to accept clients who are not safe/proficient with firearms or hunting DG.

Being a wealthy novice-ametuer hunter or pilot, I guess one could employ a PH or highly experienced Commercial pilot to be beside them and help take care of things,
should things happen to turn pear shaped. ..In reality there is nothing wrong with having someone on board who is a better[professional]shot or pilot, who can help deal
with things should wounded DG retrieval be required..or dark storm clouds suddenly form over the mountains.

Even highly experienced professionals can be called upon-required to assist[or take over] from less experienced professionals.
So a PH assisting [or completely taking over] from a novice-ametuer hunter, is quiet acceptable.
After all, the ametuer hunter-client is not seeking certification as a PH, nor is he realistically expected to perform as good as a PH, when recreational hunting.

It is not uncommon for wealthy/influencial people to be helped or surrounded by 'Mr. Fixit' types, be it in the form of lawyers,politician friends,standover/strongmen,
highly experienced PHs or prof.pilots,..etc,etc.
Some men are very good at making money ,then use it to pay for the prof.services of people who are better than him at everything else he attempts...

On the other hand, I cannot see much sensible logic or reason in a person supposedly having so much passion or love for a sport and as a PH, where he tolerates his clients
bullets whizzing within fractions of an inch of his body.

ITs seems that not only is a PH required to achieve certain amount of proficiency to obtain his PH license, he is also required to accept and tolerate all forms of
client hunters lack of basic safety & skills...and the haphazard potentially fatal human induced actions that can result.

There are some extremely select individuals who I would trust to direct a bullet within an inch of my body, but they certainly do not take the form of a novice recreational hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by sandyhunter:
For me, the most troubling thing about the video is that these guys were in a single file line while they were expecting a charge at any second (at least according to the client). Trackers are usually pretty good at getting out of the way, but things do happen very, very quickly during a charge, and I'd hate to have a client with a loaded gun behind me in that situation. Having a competent guy with a gun at my side (and not my back)

The most observant comment yet!!!! Guys, I too guide for part of my living - and as Todd Williams can attest from just last week. When approaching the downed/wounded animal, I never have the client behind me - ever. And that was just a mule deer, but if it gets up and Todd needed to shoot - I was clear, and all was good.

If you are the client, stay to the side of the PH - never directly behind him if you are in a similar situation with a wounded buff, etc. One, you are worthless as far as helping/shooting goes, and two - its dangerous.

Good video though - wow!!

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Surestrike, I would rather strike up a frienshp than argue with you.... but if he didn't shoot he PH would probably have been gored. He did miss the PH right? and the PH was still knocked down by the buff.

JBrown,

Obviously we can debate any subject and remain friends it only gets ugly when the personal insults start to fly. So with that in mind no insult is taken or implied here.

I am a law enforcement trainer and do a fair piece of tactical shooting. DG hunters can learn a lot from LEO/Military small arms tactics.

I'll stand by my previous comment. You don't almost kill your point man with friendly fire in an effort to keep him from almost getting killed by the threat. Because if it would have been two inches more to left he would have killed his point man and kept him from getting almost killed by the threat.

Pure and simple Mike is lucky he didn't develop a bad case of bullet holitis.

I am also an airline pilot and a instructor at that airline these scenarios are EXACTLY the same type of adrenalin filled emergency situations we train and drill for in the simulator. If you aren't mentally prepared and properly drilled and trained for an in your face sudden threat you are relying on luck not training and skill. A close quarters buffalo charge is the same type of shock and awe that causes you to get a case of the stupids as is a massive compressor stall and engine seizure at rotation on an instrument takeoff. If you haven't trained and prepared yourself you are going to screw it up BECAUSE you will get tunnel vision you will have auditory exclusion and you will either act as you've taught yourself to through training and drilling, or you are relying on yourself to make untrained unfamiliar actions, and to do it faster than your brain can comprehend what is happening. This is not my opinion this is fact and it's been studied and developed for decades and is constantly being tweaked and perfected for professionals who have to deal with life instant life or death decisions on a daily basis.

Emergency medical, Law Enforcement, Military, Aviation we all use these principals in our training regimes.

Or you can leave it all to chance. Your choice.

Now as far as the scope comment by shakari. I 100% agree. A scope by design funnels your vision and kills your periphreal vision, severely limiting your brains ability take in and react to issues around you.

JBrown - Surestrike among other things, is also about 6'2", 230lbs and is a professional MMA (mixed martial arts) instructor/practitioner! Thus why I am always "cordial" to him.

Frankly though, he's a super nice guy too - who just loves to hunt!!

Simply reckless under duress
Spread out if anticipated attack
Just like military, set some rules before hands.
But of course Shit happens in these situations

Gentlemen,

I think we are passing judgment on something we were not preset at.

The camera angle can be vey deceptive, and give entirely the wrong impression.

I have had occasions shooting a wounded animal where the PH was in no danger at all. But, watching the video afterwards one gets the impression that he might have been.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

Point taken however some simple shooting, operational, and situational drills would go a long way for the average sport hunter headed to Africa.

It's not difficult to practice the basics and formulate a plan in your head for the when the bad stuff happens.

I agree completely but quite honestly, it's relatively unusual to come across a hunting client who has the abilities & can meet the standards we're discussing here.

Which is exactly why I cringe whenever someone says or posts something to the effect that "The PH is there to pull the client's ass out of the fire when things go pear shaped". IMO, the client should never take to the field in pursuit of DG with that attitude.

This is something I agree with very strongly. I have a chat with my PH. I express to him that I have a responsibility to him and he has a responsibility to me. He may be better than me, but if things get hairy I am going to hang in there and do my best.

With regards to the follow up, the single file is a huge mistake. Just left Zim with Richiie Tabor, and we closed on buff down closely but seperated enough to allow fields of fire. No issues and no follow up shots but I would have done my best to prevent injury from said beastie and most importantly myself.

Jeff

quote:

The camera angle can be vey deceptive, and give entirely the wrong impression.

So true.
There is just so much at stake when shooting past
another person.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

I think we are passing judgment on something we were not preset at.

The camera angle can be vey deceptive, and give entirely the wrong impression.

Do you mean like the Mark Sullivan DVDs where none of us here are present and the camera may imply something that gives the wrong impression of what has really transpired?

Sorry Saeed. That one was low hanging fruit!

Todd,

I am absolutely, positively, certain Mark Sullivan instigates these charges.

Buffalo and hippo do not charge on demand.

Todd that was like waving a handful of treats in front of a puppy and waiting for him to snap or chumming for sharks....just too funny. No offense meant Saeed.