How dramatic do you feel the impact of the internet on the safari business has been? We have the ability to search outfitters, areas, professional hunters, rates, etc. instantly. We have live hunt updates from camp. We have the ability to email and correspond real time via Skype. I am not sure all the changes have been for the better (e.g., email access in camp), but the impact on the business has been huge from the client perspective. I would be curious what outfitters and professional hunters have to say regarding how pervasive the impact has been and whether the impact has, on balance, been positive from their perspective. For example, I suspect that clients now expect feedback almost immediately regardless of the circumstances.

It has made researching and booking a hunt quicker and easier for the hunter, cut down on the marketing cost of outfitters, fostered transparency and competition, increased the volume of business, and kept the costs of safaris down. It is has been a big win for all concerned.

It has allowed the charlatans to reach more possible victims.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
It has allowed the charlatans to reach more possible victims.

Talk about painting with a broad brush, what an overgeneralization.

It IS a very broad brush!

The internet has diminished the perceived value of Booking Agents and even personal referrals.

It has allowed the potential victims to contact the charlatans directly and subject themselves to the sweet talking salesman!

How many times have we read here: " I have just booked a hunt with______. Does anyone know anything about them?"

It surely has driven prices down to their lowest possible point. Often I am sure, by forcing even the reputable outfitter to compete with those offerring unrealistic products and unfullfillable promises. In the long run, not to the overall good, I think.

Les

I believe the impact has been enormous - good for some - not so good for others...

Before the internet really took off; Outfitters relied on repeat clients, personal referrals and conventions to get business. There are some who stuck to the "old ways" and even though they might have had a website they primarily relied on conventions for business... Many of these are now creating an "internet presence" in order to catch up.

Nowadays the internet plays an enormously important role in marketing - not only because it is a more cost effective way of advertising but also because more and more people use the internet to do their research.

It is very hard to call the free flow of information a bad thing. Even when we relied on snail mail and conventions, although less information was flowing, some of it was still bad.
The internet has contributed greatly to transparency. While it is true that the internet has reduced the perceived value of booking agents, it has led them to add value, or perceived value, in other ways.
There is certainly more competition amongst outfitters, bu the mirror image is also in play here. Clients are competing for the available services of quality outfitters and their quotas in a way we never did before.
Finally, on a personal level, I would never have slid into African hunting the way I have without the internet. This forum alone has led me in directions I would not likely have found on my own. Not just trips, but firearms and loading. I would never have gotten this kind of exposure out here on the prairie in rural South Dakota.
There are no single edged swords. I remember a line in "Inherit the Wind" to the effect that you may have an airplane, but distance will lose its charm, and the clouds will stink of gasoline. Accessibility has cost us some of the romance of safari, but without it, all most of us would be doing is reading about safari. A lot less elitist. That's another topic, but I think the net has been a huge net benefit for the industry, outfitter and client alike.

Only positive for the client and safari company.I would think especially in the safari business

Mike and Les,

Do you disagree with my statement? Or did you misconstrue what I stated?

George

George,

Obviously I misunderstood your statement, as I thought I was agreeing with you.

Les

I feel that it has been good for all concerned. As for the charlatans reaching more people, as the statement about no one edged sword brings forth, with the internet, the charlatans are also easier to be identified and weeded out.

It certainly has opened doors, too may doors, to the wrong people!

I think it is wahtever YOU personally want to value it at. I have had a long belief that the fall of society would be brought about by two factors --- the internet and the cellphone ---- and to some respects it's being bourne out around the world. You can say anything you want on the internet and reach literally hundreds of thousands around the world in minutes. And truth doesn't seem to be a factor. It is as equally difficult to DISPROOVE anything said on the internet as it is to prove it. Practically impossible in any case. As the man said 'it's impossible to un-ring a bell'. As I once heard, data is not information,information is not knowledge, and knowledge is not wisdom. And the interpretation everyone puts on this discourse will of course be their own and in no way necessarily be correct. Such is the internet.

Buzz is always terrified as to what I might say on the internet!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I feel that it has been good for all concerned. As for the charlatans reaching more people, as the statement about no one edged sword brings forth, with the internet, the charlatans are also easier to be identified and weeded out.

Theoretically, but how many times here do people refuse to out the offending party? Or do so reluctantly?

I would say that the Internet has had a profound impact on the safari business, but the first was the books of Peter Capstick that did the most when the business was on its death bed! The business grew by leaps and bounds for several years before the internet got a foot hold.

Once, however, the internet got really going across Africa, it made PHCs influence seem like a non issue, and has had a very positive effect on the safari companies business contacts, as well as giving the customer a forum to glean information on the quality of the offerings by the safari companies.

When walking the isles of DSC, or SCI shows one never passes a booth that doesn’t have a laptop open with someone working on it. This is good for the outfitter to not only keep track of what he has sold but to whom. It is also an instant way of transferring funds directly from the customers account to the outfitters account for deposits, and for further payments before and after the hunt.

The other benefit of the internet on the safari business is it is open to the world to air grievances against the bad boys who are on the shady side of the business.
IMO, I’d say there are far more positives than negatives with the internets impact on Safari hunting, and hunting in general!

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Interesting question Mike. Initially I was going to say absolutely positive. But as I thought about it awhile there are pluses and minuses when dealing with the internet; however, I think the sum game is positive.

On the positive side, websites can be surfed to peruse last year's trophies and up-to-date info on camps and area conditions. Pricelists are out there for comparison. And pictures of staff and crew of PH's as well so you don't arrive wondering what your PH looks like when searching frantically for him at the airport when you land in his country. References with e-mail addresses and links so they can be checked faster than ever before with a blast e-mail. And I have always received close to 90% return correspondence from those references.

Easy communication with your safari company staff or PH after you book. Letting them know travel itinerary, last minute changes in flights or animals on quota is a big plus of the internet/e-mail. On a familiar hunt with a reputable outfit, this minimizes my need to use a booking agent and saves the Safari Company the 10 to 15% to have them be the intermediary. That said, for a first timer to Africa or for one traveling to a new destination that one is unfamiliar with, an agent can be a godsend to help with the logistics of booking the hunt and vetting outfitters. And they may be researched on-line like any company as well.

Hunt reports on sites like this one, plus a couple of others and The Hunting Report on-line are also accessible and give good insight into hunt conditions, trophy quality, PH temperament, gun/ammo needs and accommodations.

Sites like this one also serve as clearinghouses for unused quota at discount prices and allow hunters access to good hunts at reasonable prices sometime in short timeframes. This has allowed me to experience some fantastic hunts at excellent prices for top quality game!

And lastly, you can usually find out who the good guys are and who the good guys are not by keeping up with sites like this... witness Blair's implosion.

On the minus side, the internet is easy for scammers or unscrupulous outfitters to create a website, use others photos, fake references etc to lure hunters to a bad or nonexistent hunt. These are usually outed quickly but to those impacted it can be devastating, both financially as well as emotionally and for first-timers, ruin them on African hunting.

I think Mike mentioned internet availability in camp, + or -? I like the Chevy commercial where the guys keep driving until they lose cell phone coverage. A negative for me but a positive for others who want it. Could go either way...

Also good new travels fast, bad news faster. Like any company, hunting or otherwise, there is malicious rumor or falsehoods and people who propagate or fabricate mountains from mole hills... the last lion in Bumi for example. We as hunters have to keep from falling in that trap as well. Get the details from the horses mouth before posting.

So there is my take... in the end the internet has been positive, but like any form of media and advertising it must be managed by each of us as responsible safari companies and consumers. Just my $.02.

Many states here in the US and feds? considering enforcing sales tax on internet sales. Could booking a hunt offshore be taxable?
Scott

quote:

Theoretically, but how many times here do people refuse to out the offending party? Or do so reluctantly?

That is something I have attacked before on this very forum. Be damned who it is or how much you want to be a gentleman,. If someone screws you over than by all means name names and give details.

On the opposite side of the coin, and this is where a site like AR would have to make some special arrangements, is that when a person has a gripe against an operator, they would have to contact a moderator, and the complaint would be posted in a "locked" topic area, such as the Moderators Only area is, except that with complaints, the membership would be able to view, But Not Be Able To Comment. The only person that would be able to respond to the complaint would be the Outfitter/PH/Guide/Operator involved.

The problem, and I am just as guilty as anyone else, is I become part of the Peanut Gallery/Kangaroo Court, passing judgement, purely on the information being given.

If the membership as a whole is only able to view and not get involved, then the system might be a little more objective, just a thought.

As a general matter, the internet has provided a lot of information to those who seek it and has made that information easily accessible. That is the best thing about the internet. Knowledge is power and the internet is a great and handy library. Still, the wise man must adhere to the old adage, and believe nothing of what he hears and only half of what he sees.

But even with those provisos, the internet is a great source of extremely useful information to discerning individuals.

As for the safari industry in particular, the internet has made a big difference for hunters in the lower and middle markets. There, a bad choice can be disastrous. With the internet, as long as a hunter does his homework, it has become harder, but still possible, for him to make a bad choice.

Those in the high end of the market have not been affected much by the internet. Best quality service or products have never required as much advertising as lesser quality in order to be successful. Best quality has always been easy to find, but of course it has always been, and remains, very costly to purchase.

That's as true in the safari industry as any other.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
How dramatic do you feel the impact of the internet on the safari business has been? We have the ability to search outfitters, areas, professional hunters, rates, etc. instantly. We have live hunt updates from camp. We have the ability to email and correspond real time via Skype. I am not sure all the changes have been for the better (e.g., email access in camp), but the impact on the business has been huge from the client perspective. I would be curious what outfitters and professional hunters have to say regarding how pervasive the impact has been and whether the impact has, on balance, been positive from their perspective. For example, I suspect that clients now expect feedback almost immediately regardless of the circumstances.

It sure beats the way I corresponded in arranging my first safris, by cable or telegraph, back in the by-gone years. Short sentences and read between the lines and hope you were reading right.

I would think it's a big improvement for both buyers and sellers. Easier to check references. Try that by telegram and see how much information you get from someone!

Sure provides "somethng to do" for those that have "nothing to do" -----------

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
It has allowed the charlatans to reach more possible victims.

George

How true.

Allows complete non-entities to gain a "reputation" and "presence" that simply does not exist in real life.

Some of the "PH's" that post the most, are usually the ones NEVER out in the bush. People that are agents posing as PH's, three hunts a year guys posing as PH's ...



From a clients perspective, it is sure easier than phone calls at 3 am, faxes to Africa, often the faxes went to the wrong country, or phone number no matter what you actually called, checking references by phone etc.

However as above, in the past, less charlatans, pseudo agents, PHs on paper but not in the field ...

Someone mentioned repeat business. Repeat business is the mark of successful businesses, as customers have tried, buyed and buy again. A mark of a successful business is the satisfied customer.

I am on a hunt right now in Canada. I picked the outfitter via AR based on hunt reports and other research.

I am from the generation that relies on personal references and prefers phone calls to email, however, I have been won over to the Internet as it is very quick and easy to check out a lot of things.

One thing to mention is that AR Hunt Reports is a tremendous resource. I feel it is better than Hunt Reports as the content is generated by people who really want to share good and bad. An example is the recent mess Adam Clements found himself in- treat the customer right or you will get hammered online. I like that type of immediate feed back to help me make a decision on a hunt.

So, yes, I think the internrt is a good thing for hunters and outfitters.