I have been trying to fax an application to the authorities in the Netherlands for the past 24 hours without success. Has anyone else been able to reach them? Does anyone know what the problem is? Kudude

I faxed a request for the form on Saturday and received the form yesterday. Used the fax number Terry Carr posted on the other thread of 011-31-50-523-2183. Thanks for your post regarding instructions on how to fill out the form. I figured they would want an original signature so I will send the form express mail. Let me know if they will accept a faxed copy and I will fax the application to them also. I may not take my rifle as I only have a 2 hour layover and I am worried that the red tape will result in missing my connecting flight. Good luck. Todd

Todd,
My fax went through this morning, just a few minutes ago. I asked for confirmation and offered to send them any other info they needed. I haven't heard anything yet. Don't forget to include AMMO! kudude

Todd & Kudude:
Where do we get the form, guys? Is it available from NWA? And when are you traveling? I'm going Sept 23 so I'm real interested in your experience going thru AMS.
Dave

Dave. to get the form, you can fax a request to 011-31-50-523-2183 and they will fax the form to you.
Kudude, thanks for reminder on the ammo. I did forget it-I will send another form.
Thanks,
Todd

Hi Guys

For all the information as well as the application form, examples of how to complete etc. visit our website at :

Netherlands Consent Forms

Thanks, Steve!
I see the ammo must be included. I realize no body has much experience with this yet but let me ask anyway..On our US Customs form should we list only guns & ammo (for the purpose of transit thru AMS) and have another 4457 with binoc's, cameras, etc? or list everything on one 4457? or have one with only guns and ammo and duplicate the info for guns & ammo with binoc's, cameras, etc?

Dave

Hi Dave

I'm checking on the ammunition and will advise. All conversations that I had with the Embassy and Customs was on firearms only and they do not have any space for ammunition on the form. I'll follow up on this and let you know.

Steve

Cowboy,
I don't think you'd list ammo on the form 4457. I have filled out many of them, the most recent two weeks ago, and there were never any questions about ammo. Kudude

Steve,
Look on the form about mid way down where you list you rifles, and you'll see it say firearms and ammunition or rifles and ammo, but it does reference ammunition. Kudude

Hi Kudude

You are quite correct, totally missed that and in phone calls between customs and the Embassy it never came up! I've asked Customs to confirm the requirements on this and will post as soon as I hear from them.

Hello Steve,
These form are not necessary unless one is overnighting in Amsterdam, correct? that is the way it was explained to me..If you check the guns all the way through with no 24 hour layovers, this form is not required...

Correct me if I am wrong..

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Cowboy,
I don't think you'd list ammo on the form 4457. I have filled out many of them, the most recent two weeks ago, and there were never any questions about ammo. Kudude

Right, no ammo on 4457.

Dave

Traveling with firearms is constantly changing, What was right today may be wrong tomorrow. I do not want want to get into an arguement with anyone. I spoke to Hans (see below e-mail) and spoke to the Embassies in Chicago, New York and Washington D.C. who have all confirmed the e-mail information. The website is supposed to be changed to reflect the correct information.

Ijust wanted to pass this information along to AR members. Hans Rijnaard can be reached at 011-31-204058888. He speaks fluent English.

================
Good morning to you!

We have spoken about people from the USA who are in transit in Amsterdam Schiphol airport. These passengers are travelling with fire arms to and from for instance Tanzania. You have seen on the website of gracytravel that they need a premit(consent) even if they are in transit. I have explained to you what the regulation says about the situation. I confirm this through this e-mail.

1.When the passenger stays in the clean area, that means that he(she) is not going through customs nor immigration he does not need a consent.

2.When the passenger goes through immigration and customs and he is not taking his fire arms he does not need a consent.

In the situation under 1 and 2 the fire arms will go from the incoming plane to the departing plane via the platform. In that case the fire arms are on the manifest of the incomming planes which is sufficient.

3. When the passenger goes through immigration and customs and he claims his luggage including the fire arms he needs to have a consent, because he is actually entering the Netherlands. Even if he does not leave the airport and goes straight up to the departures!

I hope this information will be ok for you.
Kind regards

Inland revenue/ Customs West Unit Passengers

H. Rijnaard

Another rumor gone wild!

I certainly hope that the email you received, Kathi, is the last word on this issue. It just makes no sense that passengers that are just changing planes in Amsterdam should have to complete firearms import forms.
That said, I received the following a few minutes ago from Gracy Travel after bringing the e-mail you received to their attention:

"Funny you should send this as this is exactly what we are up against but the problem with this information is the Netherlands government is the one requiring this consent form and has sent this information on to the airlines. So, it may be all fine and good if you originated in Amsterdam but this person in the Netherlands wont do us any good when you are checking your firearms in Houston and the ticket agent is requiring the form to even load your firearms onto the aircraft.

To make a long story short, and I do hope you don’t even have to use the consent form, this policy started up after 911. The Netherland government tried to implement this procedure but it wasn’t followed up on and consequently changed their ruling until November of 2004 when it was reinstated. We checked again at the beginning of this year since we saw it again on their embassy website and sure enough they were trying to implement it. I had 2 clients going to Africa in early May who did run into this situation even though they were just transiting. 1 of the clients had his guns taken and to date they are still lost somewhere. The other client their record was documented that they did need the consent form and did not have it. Somehow they managed to talk their firearms onto the plane but I do anticipate everyone will need this form.

I figure as long as we cover our cans we don’t have to worry about a crazy check in or customs agents."

Spring:
First, having been married twice I've learned there's no such thing as "the last word", unless "she" has it!
Second, as much as I appreciate all the info from Gracy, I'm leaning towards beleiving Kathi's version. It really is the only "workable" version. Can you imagine all of us running to the cop-shop to get cleared when we only have between 1-3 hours between flights???
Dave

As bad as flying through JoBerg is, this made flying through Amsterdam sound even worse!

I would like to assure all clients that this requirement to obtain the consent form is 100% accurate. Unfortunately when you call Dutch Customs you are going to get different answers and we have already received 6 varions of the requirements.

We have, in fact, already had a client who had his firearms impounded as he was unable to proivde the consent form to the Airport Police while in transit in Amsterdam and connecting to his flight to Africa. Only after he obtained the necessary consent form would the Airport Police release the firearms and forward them onward.

Here is the deal and how this works. You must apply for a consent form for both the outbound and the return transit through Amsterdam. Customs are not going to even know you are in Amsterdam as you are not entering the country. However, the Airport Police, who are the ones that are doing spot checks regarding the consent form, may contact you at the gate of departure from Amsterdam and ask to see your consent form. If you are unable to show them the consent form then your firearms will be held by them until you get a consent form to them.

Below is a copy of the email received from KLM Security in Amsterdam (they are the department that transfer your firearms between flights) confirming that this is now in effect as of a few weeks ago.

Attention Steve Turner Gracy Travel.

I have contacted the Dutch Police - at Schiphol Airport- about permit for Weapons transit at Schiphol Airport.

The following is ordered by Dutch Minestery of Justice.

When a passanger is transit at Schiphol Airport and holding weapons -as cheched in bagage- the passenger must have a - consent letter- with him.
In the past the Dutch Police at Schiphol Airport did not checked if passangers were in possesion of this letter.
As from a few weeks ago The Minestery of Justice has ordered the check this consents.

If passengers failed to show this letter to the Dutch Police at Schiphol Airport the weapons will be confiscated at Schiphol - till passengers are able to show this consent.

The consent can be obtained by phone at the following tel nbr of the CDIU at Groningen in the Netherlands 31 50 5232170 They will sent a fax to the passenger who has to fill in all the details and sent the fax back.
If returned the passenger has to show this consent.

The Dutch police at Schiphol has also already informed the US consulate at the Netherlands about this procedure.

Best Regards: J.M.M. Aartman
KLM - SPLAV Communication centre and Headquarters


Further to this Northwest Airlines have also received notice from KLM that check-in agents here in the USA should be checking with passengers at check-in to ensure they are in possession of the consent form before loading the firearms.

Having said all of this I can tell you that there are probably going to be a number of clients who do not obtain the consent form and are going to travel and not have any problems, but there are also those who are going to be part of the spot check by the Airport Police and not have their firearms when they arrive.

We are in the process of having all of our clients make the necessary application. It is the cost of a fax call to the Netherlands and you have a reply in 2 to 3 working days. It does not take long to complete the application and woudn't you rather be prepared to have the necessary documentation than arrive without your firearms!

You can obtain copies of the application form and the details from our website at : Netherlands Transit

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the useful update.

How about avoiding Amsterdam altogether?

Hi 500grains

Problem is Northwest/KLM offer the daily to service to Tanzania which none of the other airlines do. So it doesn't make it that simple, besides, it really is a quick application to complete!

The Embassy in Washington updated their website on May 24, 2005, confirming the requirement that the consent form is required!

Embasy of Netherlands

Thanks, Steve. Susan Hill made my travel arrangements through Amsterdam to try and avoid the SAA "Bataan Death March"...and now this! Oh well, what can a man do but...more paperwork! Such is the plight of those that hunt in Africa! If it were easy, everyone would do it.

The problem is having filed the application twice, I have not received any response from the Dutch authorities; not even an e-mail indicating receipt.

If a country is going to create a requirement like this, they have an obligation to administer the program professionally. If they cannot handle the traffic, then it would be prudent to exclude those "pro forma" transfers like those passengers transferring flights without claiming their bags.

I am sitting here wondering what happened to my applications, and tomorrow I must try to call them to see what happened. And it only took us all morning to find out that the number on the form isn't right, and we find out what the right one is. Kudude

To All:

I faxed and mailed the consent form application to the Netherlands on Thursday. I Returned from an out of town trip today and the completed consent form was on my fax. The fax was dated May 30th.

Thanks,

Todd

Todd,
When are you scheduled to leave? I'm trying to determine if they are ordering their responses with regard to departure date. Thanks. Kudude

Do I now have to hire a Company to help me with this new paperwork and walk me to the front of the line?

Kudude,
I received our passports back today after sending them off for Tanzanian visas. I was now able to make a copy of mine so I could fax it off with my Netherlands consent form application, which I did tonight. They've been telling me it would only take 3-4 business days to get these things back but, Steve, it's sounding like you're finding out we may need to be more patient than that. How many days have you now been waiting?

Most of my clients who have applied have been receiving in about 3 days.

Kudude,

I leave June 30th. The official who prepared the documents was a Mr. van Hamm (don't know the first name). You might try asking for him.

Thanks,

Todd

Well, when you mess it up, you ought to have the courage to fess it up.

I called the Netherlands I spoke to a gentleman, who probably was Mr Van Hamm. He was extremely helpful. He looked in their file, advised he could not find anything from me, and said to fax it again. I did.

Very shortly, thereafter, I again began to get the puzzling calls on our regular telephone line. I knew that this was because that number was being printed across the top of the page, something I had asked my son to fix a couple of days earlier. Had I been able to get my hands on him at that moment, he probably wouldn't have been able to make the trip!

I called Mr. Van Hamm back, and he advised that he had received four blank pages. You guessed it! Stupid me had fed the fax machine upside down. (It looks like everyone could agree-face up, face down-pick one!) The number at the top of the page was the only one the authorities had, which was why they kept faxing that one.

Anyway, having discovered my mistake, I faxed them the application, right side down. However, I have not heard anything from them, and I had so much going on, I was unable to call back before they closed. If I have not heard anything back by tomorrow morning, about two pm their time, I'll call Mr. Van Hamm.

I must apologize here to the Dutch authorities, who I maligned, when they were doing everything they could.

Now, if I can just get my CITES permit! They received that, its been approved, they just have not mailed it. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Well, when you mess it up, you ought to have the courage to fess it up.
Kudude

Excellent!
Now, let's all recite The Man Prayer:
"Ima man.....but I can change......if I have to......I guess"

Is this bureaucratic BS still in force for accompanied baggage in transit??

Calm down everyone. The form filling if you transit Schipol is an airport regulation not technically a customs one. As far as I understand, this was brought in for this airport because Amsterdam was being plagued with diamonds, gold and also weapons being smuggled or forwarded to other countries. And if you get your knickers in a twist about this, don't forget that Dubai has a similar requirement ....not sure why in this case

quote:

kudude
one of us
Posted May 25, 4:57 PM
I have been trying to fax an application to the authorities in the Netherlands for the past 24 hours without success. Has anyone else been able to reach them? Does anyone know what the problem is? Kudude

I flew into the Netherlands in 2007, approached the airport police with application form in hand, only to find out that they had no clue what I was giving them. After they made a few phone calls, they sent me on my way. In my case it was a waste of time, but you never know.

in the last couple years, people at the KLM check-in desk at Dar es Salaam airport have asked our clients for copies of their Consent Forms. good idea to bring extra copy,(even though one copy should be taped to your guncase) as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Hello Steve,
These form are not necessary unless one is overnighting in Amsterdam, correct? that is the way it was explained to me..If you check the guns all the way through with no 24 hour layovers, this form is not required...

Correct me if I am wrong..

Not the case I experienced last summer at the counter in JFK. Won't let you board until they fill out a form of their own (even though I had permit in my hand) fax it over and get a reply themselves. Ticket agent came and found me in the lounge 1/2 hour later and told me all was clear.