Hello all. A while ago two guys decided to go on a safari. Not knowing about such things they looked on the internet. They booked a 10 day plainsgame hunt with an outfiter in the US. The hunt shall take place in mid sept.in RSA. Now these two guys live in Canada and the travel agent the outfitter suggested they used came up with a route thru US. OK. Two guys phone US customs to see if everything kosher. Not so says US customs guy "no form 6, no entry", fair enough, two guys phone US government, get an answer after about 1000$ in phone bills, US govenment cannot grant a form 6, because two guys do not meet requirements, ie. traveling thru and not to the US.
There is more to this epesode, but will cut here.
Two guys find accuratereloading site, good info, book thru London, heathrow not gatwick actually, and best if ba is used for in and out. Fine two guys do this.
Now two guys look onto website and their wonderful fix to their problem has turned somewhat sour.
May I please ask to you who have traveled these routs with firearms&ammo where do we go? Thank you very much in advance.

i leave for botswana in 2 weeks and i am from ontario

i am flying from toronto to atlanta as long as i dont leave the airport with my guns i never really enter the usa

i wait for 1 hour get on my plane to joberg and i am off

i called and talked to the head guy in atlanta and there are no problems if you have to over night it there your guns will be held in secure storage and will be loaded onto your plane the day you leave.

The problem was customs pre clearence in Toronto in the first chapter of this epic adventure or episode, then rebooked thru Edmonton to Vegas to Atlanta to JoBerg. Then pulled that and booked thru London Heathrow. Next will proabably be thru Antartica.

700,

What does Ron Young say about this?

Got a canoe but I dont know if the batteries in my gps would last that long.
I thought that flying thru London would be fine, arrive on British Airways and leave on British Airways, anyone see problems with my logic?
The concern I have with traveling thru the US is that according to the U.S. GOVERNMENT it is ILLEGAL for ME(Canadian citizen) to transit thru the U.S. with firearms. Period. Now alot of people have told me that this is not a problem and that I should not be concerned. This is all fine and dandy, but if the U.S. customs official is having a bad day, he will ask me for a document that I cannot conjure up out of nowhere, then and only then my concern turnes into a problem.

Airborne_regt,
In line with 500grain's advise why dont you hitch a ribe with "MORTIE" I am sure his petite wife wouldnt mind sharing the boat.
Jokes aside I do sympathize with the hassles.

500 i have a temporary export permit for all of my firearms

i dont need the permit if i am only going to the us but if your final desination is else where you need a temp export permit

i have already gotten clearence from the airport in toronto.

air born you donot need special permits for your guns in the us as long as you dont take possesion of them and they donot leave the secure baggage area

airborn pm me and i will give you my phone number and i will give you all the info you need

Airborne,

I read your post 2 times and I can't see where you mentioned what the problem was with going through London Heathrow. I have traveled this route 4 times and will go that way this August. Please explain.

THX

Mark

Go back a few pages to a thread called Update:flight thru frankfurt to avoid US. Now I realize that these posts are all opinions, but now that I am flying as a civilian I do not wish to either loose time,guns and or freedom of movement. Also if you have flown with BA before maybe you could help with a little info, we will land at terminal 4 and take off from terminal 1, 9 hours later, same air line any problem with this. Thanks.

Airborne,

As long as you do not have to transfer to Gatwick from Heathrow you are in good shape. There should be no more problem with your guns than your regular luggage. Just check everything straight through to JIA.

If you had to transfer to Gatwick you would need a gun courier to transfer the guns but that is not really a problem either if you set it up ahead. I have a guy that has helped me before when we have layed over in London and he makes the process painless.

You do need to let BA know that you are traveling with guns so they can put it in your record at least 3 days before you leave. They may ask for some basic info. such as ser# etc. Actually I think you will enjoy BA. In my experience even traveling coach is fairly comfortable and the service is pretty good.

Regards,

Mark

Thanks, for the info and thank you everybody for the advice. We will travel thru London Heathrow and hopefully have a good time. I am not a trophy hunter as per say and scores mean very little to me, what does is the company that I keep and the memories that I collect. For once I become old, memories is all that I will have.

Not to throw water on your already difficult travel plans, but according to many others on this forum Heathrow and BA can be a very hunter unfriendly place. I have no personal experience with them but I have heard it so loud and so often that I would consider any other possible route before going that route. Can't your booking agent or travel agent work the particulars out for you? If not, another travel agent may be in order. Oddesey travel or Kathi Klimes can help I bet. Good luck. PS. I sympathise with anyone traveling with firearms. It seems as I get the agent having a bad day most every time I fly.
"D"

A friend of mine is just back from a culling hunt in RSA.
They shot 160 antelopes (4 rifles). One of them went over London Heatrow and had a lot's of trouble with the British customs concerning is rifle although he checked-in in Brussels. They wanted to confiscate his rifle while not being in possesion of a visitor firearm permit! In transit this is not needed so it was again an error (anti-gun feelings)of the British Customs. Luckily he had his European Firearms permit and after a fierce discussion they let him go. He also told me you can no longer enter RSA with guns without an European Firearms Pass.
Any way :Avoid London if you can!

Guys - never sure why this should be - generally, any London airport seems to be on the ball with security baggage handlers and customs agents that all know how the game is played.

I have often heard these suggestions - but of all the airports I have used - I can honestly say the london airports have always been efficient and actually knew the routine for transiting firearms............ but then again - I speak English! ;0)

rgds Ian

IanF,

THX for the back up I was beginning to think that perhaps all the uneventful trips I have had transiting London with guns were in my imagination.

I think the reality is that most of the gun problems in London have come about when the hunter has not arranged for a courier to handle his guns during a planned layover or during transferring from one airport to another. I think the fault really lies with the travel agent who is not familiar with traveling with guns.

I have always been treated with courtesy and respect in the London airports which is more than I can say for the welcome home in Seattle.

Regards,

Mark

Guys,

if you're travelling with firearms from or through the UK on any BA flight you need to ensure the check in agent enters ALL baggage tag numbers in the correct part of the reservation. The BA booking system allows agents to enter baggage tag numbers in the correct zone, but it also allows tag numbers to be entered in the comments section of the booking.......What is supposed to happen is that they enter ALL tag numbers as bags in the baggage tag section of the reservation and then COMMENT in the comments section of the booking) that the passenger is travelling with firearms.

What often happens is that many check in agents incorrectly (or perhaps maliciously) believe they should only enter the gun baggage tag numbers in the comments section...... this means that when the baggage tags on your rifle are scanned by the computer, authority to load will be denied...... so ensure that the firearm tag numbers have been correctly entered as bags and commented seperately.

Then when you come to board, don't be intimidated by the queue behind you or by the check in agent trying to hurry everybody along. When you hand in your boarding pass insist that they call the LIBRA support office (which is basically a security unit) and ask them to confirm that your rifles (and other baggage) have been loaded. If they tell you it hasn't, just tell them you'll wait until they can confirm its on board.

BA also has a rule (as Mark has mentioned) that they require 3 days notice that a passenger is travelling with firearms. So when you make your booking you need to ask your travel agent to put this into the comments section of your booking and make sure that you have a dated hard copy of this to take along on your trip...... Last year the bastards made a hunter sit in Jo'burg for 3 days before they would allow him to travel......and one last thing. When you make your booking and have the comment entered and every time the subject comes up in conversation with any airline employee you need to stress that you are travelling with SPORTING FIREARMS. Don't call them rifles or guns or anything else. Always use the term SPORTING FIREARMS. The Air Navigation Order which dictates the rules for all commercial flights out of the UK (and I believe Europe) only allows airlines to carry SPORTING FIREARMS and the anti hunters and know nothings in the airlines like to interpret any & all other firearms to be weapons of war which they are not allowed to carry. They will use this as an excuse to lose your rifles until its too late for them to travel.

Assuming you can get over all this shit..... have a good hunt.

The facts are that we have consistantly had trouble with the British airlines in about every form over the years as hunters, and they continue...

SCI and even our Government and our Travel Agents have had to step in on many ocassions and each time it is reportedly fixed but in a short time they revert back to the anti gun bunch that work there...

Over the years we have consistantly delt with rude behavior, sabotage of firearms, and holding of firearms or actual confiscation and theft. As far as I am concerned any attempt to clean up after them is just a bunch of crap, its been going on too long, and its time everyone recognized that organization for what it is.

I try to bypass all my clients from the UK...They are anti gun and for the most part anti American as of late.

I, for one am tired of their abusive approach to pro gun citizens...and yes I am sure their are a lot of fine Brits, perhaps they are the silent majority, but they have strict gun control and that goes with a liberal base IMO, and thats is where these problems keep developing......

Oh yes, and now they are gouging the hell out of hunters sending trophies out of certain countries, British Air simply sucks and thats my thought for today.

Shakari,

It would seem that myself, several friends and acquaintences have been very lucky in traveling through London. Thanks for all the pertinent info. with a minimum of rhetoric. I'll file your words to the wise with my other travel paperwork. I'll probably continue to use BA and fly through London from Seattle as it is very convenient for travel from the Northwest. Also my mileage plan is linked to BA and it is hard to pay for a ticket when you can travel business class for free.

THX

Mark

Hi Mark,

It's a pleasure...... The T4 LIBRA office recently changed their phone numbers, but as soon as I get the new ones I'll e-mail them to you and then you can call them on a cellphone rather than wait for the check in agent to do it for you........ you sometimes have to be quick in your request to them as their primary function is obviously security rather than customer service...... but assuming they don't have any shit hitting the fan they'll always help you out.

Airborne - we live in the same town and I have hunted Africa a good number of times, and can help you. My email is on my profile - drop me a note and I will send you my phone number.

Shakari,

The LIBRA business is uncharted water for me. Is this entity only in Johannesberg? Is there a similiar department in all international airports? I'm more than a little lost here. I believe that very few safari travelers know anything about this. Sounds helpful to all. Please share.

Since I was thinking about it from visiting AR today I called BA 1-800-247-9297 and put my guns on my travel record with them. They wanted to know make, model, caliber and number of rounds for each SPORTING FIREARM. I found it interesting that they didn't need the ser#. I asked them to make sure they hadn't missed the ser# part but they confirmed that they did not need it. It would seem to me that it would be more important than the rest of the gun info. They are supposed to fax a confirmation to me.

Regards,

Mark

COuldn't a Canadian just buy a hutnign liscence for somewhere in the USA and then fly down with his guns because he is 'going on a hunting trip near Atlanta?"

Mark,



LIBRA is operating on all BA & BA handled flights out of the UK, and it only operates on departing aircraft.



It's true they don't need any serial numbers..... in fact they don't even really need calibres. Just number of firearms.



My website always has up to date travel info on it...Just go to the news & special offers page, so you can always check it a day or two before you depart. The PHASA website also post the same sort of thing.



BA might be a pain in ass. But believe me, their security and counter-terrorism measures are bloody good.