.............. and you better have the presence of mind to "feed" him the arm that doesn't have to draw the handgun!!!!

If you are in the same league as Billy the Kid you need not worry

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just for the sake of discussion as I agree with Mark...kill'em where he stands with the first shot from your rifle. And...until we were rolling on the ground...I would still opt for my rifle in first line of defence.

But...if I were rolling on the ground with a lion mauling me with one arm in his mouth...I would wish for a .45 ACP 1911 in the other hand.

I carried a 1911 45 ACP for over 30 years. Love them as a personal a defence weapon. But on the ground with a lion or leopard you have to be careful not to push the end of the barrel too hard against the cat or you will knock it out of battery and it won't fire.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
.............. and you better have the presence of mind to "feed" him the arm that doesn't have to draw the handgun!!!!

Carry one for each hand--



SSR

quote:

I would wish for a .45 ACP

I believe Shakari used to carry his 45 ACP as backup on leopard.
Steve, correct me if I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Just for the sake of discussion as I agree with Mark...kill'em where he stands with the first shot from your rifle. And...until we were rolling on the ground...I would still opt for my rifle in first line of defence.

But...if I were rolling on the ground with a lion mauling me with one arm in his mouth...I would wish for a .45 ACP 1911 in the other hand.

Great choice Lane but is not bigger better?

An old Texas Ranger I knew had a saying: "there is only one good reason to carry a .45 ...cause they don't make a .46!"

We all know there are .48's and .50's now but in practicality in a close combat pistol...nothing exceeds a .45 ACP.

At point blank range...a .452 diameter 230 gr full metal jacket going 900fps is big enough...maybe perfect.

quote:

An old Texas Ranger I knew had a saying: "there is only one good reason to carry a .45 ...cause they don't make a .46!"

"We all know there are .48's and .50's now but in practicality in a close combat pistol...nothing exceeds a .45 ACP.

At point blank range...a .452 diameter 230 gr full metal jacket going 900fps is big enough...maybe perfect."

That being said, if you choose to carry a .45, make it a Revolver as opposed to a semi- auto. That way you won't have to worry abouy having problems clearing a jam while your other arm is in the cat's mouth.

.[/QUOTE]
I carried a 1911 45 ACP for over 30 years. Love them as a personal a defence weapon. But on the ground with a lion or leopard you have to be careful not to push the end of the barrel too hard against the cat or you will knock it out of battery and it won't fire.
465H&H[/QUOTE]

Bingo! Also not really the time to be worried about hammers being cocked, safety on/off. A large caliber DOUBLE ACTION revolver just can not be beat when rolling around in the dirt and there is a necessity of making a contact shot.

The 45ACP was intended as a man killer...average weight 175lbs!!....a Lion is many, many times that and will swallow that pip squeek like it didn't happen!!

Now I'm not an expert, but I feel that if you really believe that you need a side arm as back-up on a very dangerous animal hunt, perhaps you should reconsider hunting that particular animal.

I find it hard to believe that a wild, angry 350 pound lion or a smaller leopard would fall (previously wounded or not) to a .45 or even a 44 magnum before the animal did some very serious damage to a hunter. JMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Horse RVN:
Now I'm not an expert, but I feel that if you really believe that you need a side arm as back-up on a very dangerous animal hunt, perhaps you should reconsider hunting that particular animal.

I find it hard to believe that a wild, angry 350 pound lion or a smaller leopard would fall (previously wounded or not) to a .45 or even a 44 magnum before the animal did some very serious damage to a hunter. JMHO.

When the lion has your left hand in his mouth, he is close enough for a brain shot, i.e, contact distance.

465H&H

Having personally stopped a lioness with an M58...The handgun on your belt is alot better than the one in the safe. I later switched to a S&W 329 but would happliy carry a 360. I don't belive any handgun has enough velocity to induce any shock effect on a lion so it is shot placement only that counts and a .357 is nearly as good as a .44 in the 'deep penetration' dept. For leopard, I think the 329 has much to offer- they are small enough to notice the difference in power and you could use a soft point...but Doug Evens killed a buff that was on top of him with a .357...and I think it was pete clemence or Dolf who shot a buffalo that had pinned him against a tree with a .45 acp (from a converted webley). Visitors to my house will also remember 'fido- the Hyaena rug mount in the front lounge that I shot one night while she was standing on me while I was sleeping under a tree at Mana Pools. Most parks officers bought a handgun of their own - and with good reason. The official issue Browning BDA's were in short supply and were mainly worn as badges of rank by head office types.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anjin:
Let's face it, we all love threads like this.

As for Harry Wohlhuter,do a Google search on the internet and you will find much about his encounter, including accounts of the lion attack, pictures of his knife and the lion skin.

The famous explorer Carl Akeley was one who killed a leopard with his bare hands. You can see photos of the heavily bandaged Akeley as well as the leopard skin itself at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. No doubt Marshall Field bought them, as he did Patterson's Maneaters of Tsavo.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ledvm:
. . . .
Didn't Akeley think that the cat was something else, can't seem to find the book.

In Anthony Dyer's "MEN FOR ALL SEASONS, AND LEGENDARY LADIES" on page 128, there is a photo of the legendary Eric Rundgren, bloodied and bandaged, with the leopard he throttled. Both of his hands are bandaged, so I think that a weapon in this hand to claw encounter, other than tooth and claw, did not feature.

Ganyana,

Thanks for sharing those tales with us. You have indeed been there and done that and are absolutely 100% correct. Thanks for sharing the information.

It has always been my experience that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I would think that all of the one shot boys that had a woops and were killed by any sort of dangerous game that mauled them to death would if they could be pieced back together for an interview would have given all for just the opportunity to have a chance to have saved themselves with a .357. The old one shot and done boys who have never needed another shot or has had an animal at least get away has never done a hell of a lot of shooting

Cheers,

I will bet you a thousand to one that you slightly chuffed that you had that little pea shooter when there was a good chance that it may have been you that was going to be the rug on the hyaena's den floor.

You certainly are aware that dead if forever and there is yet a store out there from which one may purchase smart.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
The 45ACP was intended as a man killer...average weight 175lbs!!....a Lion is many, many times that and will swallow that pip squeek like it didn't happen!!

You have not shot many things with a .45 acp.

To the revolver fellows: I will trust my life to any semi-auto John Browning designed...especially a well tuned 1911.

I will say it again...if I were rolling on the ground with a lion...I would wish for a good 1911 .45 acp.

I haven't shot cats with a pistol and my first trip to Africa comes this August--

But I have shot an 1800# bull of myself and several others off friends at muzzle contact range. S&W 629-2 Mountain

Tis better to have the weapon than not!!

The major problem with this conversation is that as far as I can discover it is almost impossible for a visiting hunter to bring a self-defense pistol in country---hence its all a moot point.

SSR