The Accurate Reloading Forums
So what would you do ?
27 September 2017, 11:43
Charlie64So what would you do ?
.
Here's the scenario - a booked mountain hunt after antelope, Eastern Cape, USA, Europe, Asia .... Wherever you want it to be.
You are on the hill, two guides/PHs ( one with you and the other 500m below with a large spotting scope). You are glassing an open vlei / area dotted with cover and bushes. Two antelope - a decent ram and an ewe - in and out of the left edge for over an hour. But you know there is a better ram there and your guide thinks he is in the bush to the right.
A while later a ram comes out of the left side tree line and walks on to the vlei / opening, grazing some 248 m uphill from you. You glass and watch. Ten minutes later the second and larger ram also appears from the left and comes onto the stage.
"He's good. Will you shoot him?" asks the PH with you.
"Yes", you whisper and taking your rifle you glass the slope and pick up the ram.
"He's eating/facing right?" You ask.
"Yes."
The shot breaks and you see the ram buckle, hit hard and break right and you reload.
Seconds go by.
"Shoot again. He's still up." Your guide urges.
You don't see him.
"Where?"
"In the tree line on the left. Looking at us. Head on. Shoot again." Urges the guide
Your find the ram. He's 230m out, partly covered, looking down the hill at you.
You sight onto his chest and squeeze the shot and hear a solid hit. You reload but you see nothing. The ram broke to the left into the trees.
After 5 minutes you start to descend the hill to the second guide.
"The first shot was good. I saw him buckle in the scope, hit hard."
"Maybe a bit far back with the first," replies the guide.
You get down the hill to the senior guide and he looks at you, confused.
"What happend? You shot the smaller one, which is down on the right, and then the larger one on the left?"
You replay the video he filmed. With hindsight you couldn't have seen the left hand ram as it was covered by bush and you could only see the right hand ram. Both were feeding to the right. You shot and the ram you shot broke to the right 20 m before falling behind rocks. The second ram bolted right at the shot and then back left into cover, where he stopped and was watching you. The PH that accompanied you had his binos on the left hand ram.
You have two good rams down. Licensing not an issue two tags are available.
What would you do now?
.
"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
27 September 2017, 11:56
Saeedquote:
Originally posted by Charlie64:
.
Here's the scenario - a booked mountain hunt after antelope, Eastern Cape, USA, Europe, Asia .... Wherever you want it to be.
You are on the hill, two guides/PHs ( one with you and the other 500m below with a large spotting scope). You are glassing an open vlei / area dotted with cover and bushes. Two antelope - a decent ram and an ewe - in and out of the left edge for over an hour. But you know there is a better ram there and your guide thinks he is in the bush to the right.
A while later a ram comes out of the left side tree line and walks on to the vlei / opening, grazing some 248 m uphill from you. You glass and watch. Ten minutes later the second and larger ram also appears from the left and comes onto the stage.
"He's good. Will you shoot him?" asks the PH with you.
"Yes", you whisper and taking your rifle you glass the slope and pick up the ram.
"He's eating/facing right?" You ask.
"Yes."
The shot breaks and you see the ram buckle, hit hard and break right and you reload.
Seconds go by.
"Shoot again. He's still up." Your guide urges.
You don't see him.
"Where?"
"In the tree line on the left. Looking at us. Head on. Shoot again." Urges the guide
Your find the ram. He's 230m out, partly covered, looking down the hill at you.
You sight onto his chest and squeeze the shot and hear a solid hit. You reload but you see nothing. The ram broke to the left into the trees.
After 5 minutes you start to descend the hill to the second guide.
"The first shot was good. I saw him buckle in the scope, hit hard."
"Maybe a bit far back with the first," replies the guide.
You get down the hill to the senior guide and he looks at you, confused.
"What happend? You shot the smaller one, which is down on the right, and then the larger one on the left?"
You replay the video he filmed. With hindsight you couldn't have seen the left hand ram as it was covered by bush and you could only see the right hand ram. Both were feeding to the right. You shot and the ram you shot broke to the right 20 m before falling behind rocks. The second ram bolted right at the shot and then back left into cover, where he stopped and was watching you. The PH that accompanied you had his binos on the left hand ram.
You have two good rams down. Licensing not an issue two tags are available.
What would you do now?
.
Pay for both and take them.
And be thankful there is no government red tape to go through.
27 September 2017, 12:56
fairgamePay for one and barbecue the other.
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27 September 2017, 13:40
RugSmile and carry on
27 September 2017, 13:52
eagle27Two's better than one isn't it?
This is a problem you don't have here in my country, you can shoot until you run out of animals of any sex or age, ammo, or your barrel droops, which ever comes first.
27 September 2017, 15:39
BushchookHad something similar happen to me with mountain zebra. I have 2 nice skins headed my way.
The hunting imperative was part of every man's soul; some denied or suppressed it, others diverted it into less blatantly violent avenues of expression, wielding clubs on the golf course or racquets on the court, substituting a little white ball for the prey of flesh and blood.
Wilbur Smith
27 September 2017, 17:03
LabmanAlmost had something like that happen to me on my first trip to Africa many years ago. I shot my first Gemsbok and he started to run. I took a second shot at him on the run and saw him flinch and start limping badly as he ran into a patch of heavy brush.
A few seconds later a Gemsbok comes running out the other side of the brush patch and the tracker starts yelling "shoot shoot". I hesitated because this Gemsbok wasn't limping and by then the PH started yelling "don't shoot". The PH then starting chewing out the tracker. We walked over to the brush patch and my Gemsbok was laying there quite dead.
Tom Z
NRA Life Member
27 September 2017, 17:10
tomahawkerHad similar with kudu. At the shot a nice bull fell on his nose. My Dad and our scout immediately congratulated me. PH still with binos up says I completely missed. Very quick discussion and I dropped the other as well. Can't remember which but one was 63". That and my Pop breaking his rifle stock are what we talk about to this day. Bring lots of bullets and enjoy
27 September 2017, 17:53
boarkillerBetter two birds in hand then one in bush
" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...
Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
27 September 2017, 18:11
James ScottAs Saeed stated. Been there and did that. In NZ with may two Thar...
27 September 2017, 18:21
Venture SouthCharlie
I have had exactly this scenario play out before.
Innocent mistake but it happened none the less.
I as the guide must take full responsibility for the situation, and immediately told the client that I would cover the cost of the second ram. No question about that.
He was given both with tags to take home.
His bill was for one ram only.
Being the quality gent that he was, when the wire came through a week after he left, he had added the extra trophy fee on without ever saying a word to me about it.
Its clients if his caliber that we wish we had more of. What a gentleman.
Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill
27 September 2017, 20:35
Eagle DadOnly one thing to do. As others have said...pay the fees, smile, hunt on.
27 September 2017, 21:39
crbutlerPay up and carry on.
27 September 2017, 21:51
Charlie64.
No question in my mind. I pulled the trigger - twice - and have two great chamois rams of 96 and 100 points for the wall.
To his credit the guide said I could leave one there and pay only one but I didn't even consider that option.
Two trophies, twice the fun!!
.
"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
27 September 2017, 22:19
ftg767Mine was with Warthogs....walking through some brush and PH says "Pig"...sets up the sticks...but I can't find him....so he lines the rifle up and says "he's facing away...shoot him in the ass..."
I look through scope and see the ass of a pig...bang goes the 375 and piggy flops....as we walk up I ask him " why did we shoot a female pig"?
He looked at me and asked if I didn't see the boar...what boar....oh well...it got ate....and the joke later that day with the land owner was" the farken is an ooopppsie..."
And all was well.
28 September 2017, 00:15
FMCMine were mule deer in Sonora Old Mexico.
Shot one at 318 yds, then my guide said
"otro mas." Boom. Boom.
There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others.
28 September 2017, 02:14
bakerbHappened to me on my first and only safari. . . Shot a black wildebeest, in the wild scramble I ended up shooting a different one.
Then, both turned out to be big horned cows
My guide was really embarrassed. I had opportunities to shoot bulls later, but passed. I already had two
They didn't bill me for either one. I didn't think that was fair. So I paid the trophy fee for one bull. (I also didn't want the guide to have to pay the outfitter, it was an honest mistake)
Mistakes happen. glad it wasn't a US hunt where there would have been legal issues. . .
28 September 2017, 04:33
Michael RobinsonI would take them.
But I would have to have a fair bit of evil fun afterwards at a certain guide's expense.
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
28 September 2017, 05:05
dogcatquote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Pay for one and barbecue the other.
Yep. I have done that and was rather please with my shooting!!!!
Paid for both and celebrated. Can't do that in the USA?
28 September 2017, 10:26
georgeldNever had that happen to me.
But, Dad told about stacking up four cow elk back in the early '50s in scattered pines.
He shot, recoil blocked his sightline, cow still standing there, shot again and again. Finally decided something wasn't right and walked over to check things out. All dead within 20 feet of each other. Guess he spent half the night dressing elk as he was alone 6 miles from camp.
All were covered by others in camp even though that's "party hunting" and illegal these days. He used that as a teaching lesson for this kid.
George
"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"
LM: NRA, DAV,
George L. Dwight
28 September 2017, 10:39
eagle27quote:
Originally posted by James Scott:
As Saeed stated. Been there and did that. In NZ with may two Thar...
Why did you stop at two, our Department of Conservation (DOC) who administer our public land, encourages hunters to take at least another 5 or 6 animals for every bull tahr taken. Of course nothing to stop you taking 500 or 600 more animals if you wish and are good enough
30 September 2017, 07:00
lavacaReal simple! You pulled the trigger; you pay the trophy fee.
30 September 2017, 17:52
SevensPer the scenario, you have two rams down and two tags. Pay the fees and enjoy having a successful hunt.
Been on way too many hunts where I don't shoot anything. Filling both tags sounds great!
30 September 2017, 18:23
AntlersI'd be very thankful that I was in Africa and not Alaska...
Antlers
Double Rifle Shooters Society
Heym 450/400 3"
30 September 2017, 19:26
Sevensquote:
Originally posted by Antlers:
I'd be very thankful that I was in Africa HUNTING and not Alaska AT WORK...
Fixed it for ya, Antlers.
30 September 2017, 21:04
Thor KirchnerIf I was the guide in that situation and it was clearly my mistake, I would cover the cost of the second one myself. But I would want the right to eat it too.
01 October 2017, 02:20
Skylinequote:
Originally posted by Venture South:
Charlie
I have had exactly this scenario play out before.
Innocent mistake but it happened none the less.
I as the guide must take full responsibility for the situation, and immediately told the client that I would cover the cost of the second ram. No question about that.
He was given both with tags to take home.
His bill was for one ram only.
Being the quality gent that he was, when the wire came through a week after he left, he had added the extra trophy fee on without ever saying a word to me about it.
Its clients if his caliber that we wish we had more of. What a gentleman.
Bingo............right answer there. Venture South gets a gold star as being the guide that mans up. Lucky with venue as in other jurisdictions it would not be something you can buy your way out of.
______________________________________________
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift.
01 October 2017, 04:34
GatogordoI wish I had that problem. Really nothing to do but chalk it up to experience, pay for both, and carry on.
01 October 2017, 06:41
NakihunterMy question is if this was on private station or was it NZ public land.
If public land, then you should not have to pay ANY trophy fee for even one animal. It is illegal for guides to charge for trophy fees.
Technically even on private land, the game belongs to the Crown and not the land owner. Not sure if it is ever monitored or enforced.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
03 October 2017, 23:13
MARK H. YOUNGYou could make a fuss and sour the hunt or take it as part of the experience. The expression "Shit Happens" often applies to hunting.
Mark
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https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 04 October 2017, 00:20
Charlie64.
Nakihunter, Not NZ at all but Austrian Alps last week !
.
"Up the ladders and down the snakes!"
09 October 2017, 10:43
Big Wonderful WyomingAn ex-girlfriend of mine was on her first year guiding in British Columbia. She managed to find some mountain goats, and picked the biggest one (probably also the easiest one to get to) and the client shot it.
They get up there and it is a nanny. Not illegal, but of course not the goal
She was quite the looker (though flat chested as all get out), and said nothing. The client said nothing, and she still got a tip.
I guess it happens. She later told me she had never been trained on how to tell the mountain goats apart.
09 October 2017, 20:33
BuffHunter63It happens. I would just accept the fact that I have filled both tags.
BH63
Hunting buff is better than sex!
14 October 2017, 00:41
Big Wonderful WyomingWow I had not ever seen a 7x57 K95, that would be great. Most of them are 7x57R.
Saw one a few years ago that was a 375 H&H.
15 October 2017, 17:56
LHeym500If the guide told me to shot an animal that was not what we discussed previously, and then told me to shot another separate animal effectively doubling the cost in trophy fees, I think the guide or outfitter should have to eat the cost/pay for the extra animal.
Identifying game to be shot is what you are paying them for. Everyone makes a mistake, but when a professional makes a mistake he needs to make it right.
15 October 2017, 18:30
AnotherAZWriterThis happened to me on a mule deer hunt. Guide said, "See that deer in the front of the group? Shoot him."
"The first, the one leading the group?" I asked?
"Yes," he replied.
Boom!
"You missed!" the guide said.
"No, I saw the buck go down!"
"You shot at the lead buck in the second group of deer, right?"
"No, I didn't see two groups, only one."
At least I didn't shoot two.